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Author Topic: Tucson Freeways  (Read 36046 times)

andy3175

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Tucson Freeways
« on: May 10, 2015, 11:54:29 PM »

Starting a thread on Tucson highways and freeways, of which there are only 2 Interstate-grade freeways (I-10 and I-19). This article discusses the plans for Aviation Parkway (AZ 210) and the Sonoran Corridor in SE Tucson, but it also mentions the potential need for a crosstown freeway traveling from east to west across Tucson. Opinions in the article naturally extend in favor and opposition to considering such a route, which would be a $3B endeavor according to the article.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/28939827/traffic-troubles-does-tucson-need-a-crosstown-freeway

Quote
As Tucson's population grows, what plans are in place for crosstown roads to cut down your commute? We've debated potential ideas for decades, and though past proposals for crosstown freeways, parkways, or even outer loops have failed, questions remain. As the city of Tucson expands east, how will our road system change with it? ...

Clearly the thought isn't new, so why don't we have an east to west route yet?

We saw a proposal for a crosstown parkway in 1984, as well as ideas for a loop around the city in the late 1980s and early 1990s. In these cases, it came down to a lack of money and designs were defeated at the ballot box.

According to the Arizona Department of Transportation and Regional Transportation Authority, it would cost more than $3 billion to build an actual crosstown freeway now. ...

tate Route 210, also known as Aviation Parkway, will eventually change for commuters. Currently, it spans from Golf Links Road west of South Swan Road on the east side to the eastern edge of downtown Tucson at East Broadway Boulevard.

ADOT is starting Phase 2 of a traffic study which includes expansion of the parkway. The parkway could eventually go all the way to I-10 on the west side, while the eastern extension has yet to be planned. ADOT officials say this would really make a difference for drivers.

"This would relieve a lot of traffic on I-10 that is heading to downtown Tucson," Krugel said. "Because they would have another option to get downtown by taking State Route 210, which would be a free-flowing highway."

They have money set aside now for the right of way fees, but no design or construction fees are designated, which means any kind of change here is still years away.

Plans are also in place for The Sonoran Corridor. Once built, this road will connect I-19 at Pima Mine Road to I-10 at Rita Road, easing congestion around Raytheon's facilities. It should cut about 20 minutes out of the southeast side commute, according to Pima County officials. ...

The Sonoran Corridor will also connect traffic from about 18 roads in the area with about 304,025 cars traveling on them, according to Raytheon and Pima Association of Governments.

"We're attempting to find ways to make sure we minimize congestion at the crossings, which is where the two come together," Pima County Director of Strategic Planning John Moffatt said. "As well as divert traffic and also make it easier to get to work."

Designs for this corridor are slightly further along and they should have it built in the next five to 10 years. The expected cost exceeds $600 million. The county will initially build this as a surface street, but Moffatt tells me they are ultimately looking at a four-lane highway design.
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nexus73

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 12:57:57 AM »

Funny to think that I see so many local/regional tax increases pass in California where congestion is Obvious with a capital O but a growing place like Tucson can't be bothered with building the needed infrastructure as well as paying the piper.  It looks like all that can be done is to let things get so bad that the people scream for ice cream, then they'll be ready to pay.  Those "pay me now or pay me later" commercials must not have resonated with the people who live in the only walled city in the US of A. 

Rick
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US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willets CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

dfwmapper

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 03:33:41 AM »

Funny to think that I see so many local/regional tax increases pass in California where congestion is Obvious with a capital O but a growing place like Tucson can't be bothered with building the needed infrastructure as well as paying the piper.  It looks like all that can be done is to let things get so bad that the people scream for ice cream, then they'll be ready to pay.  Those "pay me now or pay me later" commercials must not have resonated with the people who live in the only walled city in the US of A. 

Rick
Pima County did pass a 1/2 cent sales tax increase in 2006 to pay for transportation. It has funded hundreds of projects including widening of many roads, building of new interchanges on I-10, eliminating at-grade rail crossings, improving bus service, and the streetcar line that opened last year. But please, continue telling us about how they refuse to pay.
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nexus73

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2015, 10:39:56 AM »

Funny to think that I see so many local/regional tax increases pass in California where congestion is Obvious with a capital O but a growing place like Tucson can't be bothered with building the needed infrastructure as well as paying the piper.  It looks like all that can be done is to let things get so bad that the people scream for ice cream, then they'll be ready to pay.  Those "pay me now or pay me later" commercials must not have resonated with the people who live in the only walled city in the US of A. 

Rick
Pima County did pass a 1/2 cent sales tax increase in 2006 to pay for transportation. It has funded hundreds of projects including widening of many roads, building of new interchanges on I-10, eliminating at-grade rail crossings, improving bus service, and the streetcar line that opened last year. But please, continue telling us about how they refuse to pay.

"We saw a proposal for a crosstown parkway in 1984, as well as ideas for a loop around the city in the late 1980s and early 1990s. In these cases, it came down to a lack of money and designs were defeated at the ballot box."

Satisfied?

Rick
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US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willets CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

Henry

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2015, 12:54:09 PM »

Due to the fact that the I-710 proposal was shot down decades ago and Tucson's anti-freeway sentiment, I find it hard to believe that any freeway proposals have come about since then.
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Sonic99

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 02:46:24 AM »

Tucson is very "anti-Phoenix", and they see freeways and loop systems is trying to turn Tucson into Phoenix. It's more of an arrogance problem, enhanced by the rivalry between ASU and Tucson Community College (aka U of A). I lived there for a time in the late 90's and have met people since then from Tucson, and they really despise Phoenix and anything associated with it.
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nexus73

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 10:23:48 AM »

Tucson is very "anti-Phoenix", and they see freeways and loop systems is trying to turn Tucson into Phoenix. It's more of an arrogance problem, enhanced by the rivalry between ASU and Tucson Community College (aka U of A). I lived there for a time in the late 90's and have met people since then from Tucson, and they really despise Phoenix and anything associated with it.

Thanks for explaining the rivalry aspects Sonic.  Another one in the west exists in Idaho.  You're either a Boise person or a rest of the state person is what I have heard.  Tucson Community College...LOL!

Rick
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US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willets CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

Henry

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 10:31:14 AM »

Tucson is very "anti-Phoenix", and they see freeways and loop systems is trying to turn Tucson into Phoenix. It's more of an arrogance problem, enhanced by the rivalry between ASU and Tucson Community College (aka U of A). I lived there for a time in the late 90's and have met people since then from Tucson, and they really despise Phoenix and anything associated with it.

Thanks for explaining the rivalry aspects Sonic.  Another one in the west exists in Idaho.  You're either a Boise person or a rest of the state person is what I have heard.  Tucson Community College...LOL!

Rick
I had to laugh at that Tucson Community College statement! I'm told that Seattle and Spokane don't like each other either. And then there are the examples from the bigger states, such as Los Angeles-San Francisco and Dallas-Houston, which are there for more obvious reasons.
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Pink Jazz

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 04:27:45 PM »

One thing that I wonder is that once logo signs are installed on the Tucson area freeways, I wonder if there will be heavy opposition.  There hasn't been much opposition for them in Phoenix (most people that I spoke to in person support them), but I have this feeling that many Tucson area residents (and possibly the City of Tucson government) will be in opposition to them since they might think it clutters up their freeways.  After all, Tucson often tries to do everything the opposite of Phoenix.
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 06:13:54 PM »

Tucson will demand the Parclo B4 if they get logo signs.
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swbrotha100

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 11:18:51 PM »

Tucson takes way too long just to widen existing roads. Forget about a new freeway or parkway. I would love to see the mentality change there, but I'll believe it when I see it.

There is one good thing going on there. Many of the interchanges on I-10 NW of Prince Road are due to be redone. Most will be new bridges over the freeway and parallel railroad tracks.
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2015, 11:52:23 PM »

I lived in Tucson for two years (2010-2012) and commuted from Oracle and Hardy down to the university (roughly 6th and Euclid) during rush-hour three days a week. While the lack of a freeway was odd and people would whine about no freeway, traffic really wasn't that bad once you got used to it and figured out what streets to be on (1st to Orange Grove was much faster than taking Speedway to Oracle) and lane to be in and when. It might be worse going east, but coming from Oro Valley, I never saw any particular need for more road- it seemed like adding a freeway connection would be more for the sake of saying that there was a freeway than for any real reason. Having lived in places with congested freeways, I actually felt like having timed traffic lights was better and more efficient than sitting on a gridlocked freeway.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 11:55:14 PM by corco »
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2015, 01:04:41 PM »

I lived in Tucson for two years (2010-2012) and commuted from Oracle and Hardy down to the university (roughly 6th and Euclid) during rush-hour three days a week. While the lack of a freeway was odd and people would whine about no freeway, traffic really wasn't that bad once you got used to it and figured out what streets to be on (1st to Orange Grove was much faster than taking Speedway to Oracle) and lane to be in and when. It might be worse going east, but coming from Oro Valley, I never saw any particular need for more road- it seemed like adding a freeway connection would be more for the sake of saying that there was a freeway than for any real reason. Having lived in places with congested freeways, I actually felt like having timed traffic lights was better and more efficient than sitting on a gridlocked freeway.

Yes, it does. Because instead of having everyone take the freeway, traffic is spread around many more arterials.  For a city that is Tucson's size, it works very well.
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2015, 02:44:30 PM »

I lived in Tucson for two years (2010-2012) and commuted from Oracle and Hardy down to the university (roughly 6th and Euclid) during rush-hour three days a week. While the lack of a freeway was odd and people would whine about no freeway, traffic really wasn't that bad once you got used to it and figured out what streets to be on (1st to Orange Grove was much faster than taking Speedway to Oracle) and lane to be in and when. It might be worse going east, but coming from Oro Valley, I never saw any particular need for more road- it seemed like adding a freeway connection would be more for the sake of saying that there was a freeway than for any real reason. Having lived in places with congested freeways, I actually felt like having timed traffic lights was better and more efficient than sitting on a gridlocked freeway.

Much of Tucson does have an efficient "gridiron" pattern, similar to Chicago and other cities, where streets are straight, run either N-S or E-W and major intersections were often placed exactly a mile apart.   As for additional freeway in the Tucson metro area, wonder why ROW was not identified and preserved along Houghton Road on the far east side, for eventual upgrading to a piece of an beltway? 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 02:46:47 PM by DJStephens »
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2015, 07:09:39 AM »

Seems ADOT didn't give up on the idea of Freeway upgrades for years.

http://azhighwaydata.com/resolutions/?syear=1927&eyear=2014&crc=3&rtnum=910&submit1=Submit

Apparently, Grant Road, Kolb Road and Valencia Road were part of a little known unsigned State Route 910 Loop. I say "were" considering all Route Logs published by ADOT in modern times don't show a SR 910 anywhere. Plus, the lack of maintenance on Grant Road speaks for itself.
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2015, 12:41:47 AM »

There is a Unofficial Proposal for I-11 to create a bypass of Tucson.
Starting At I-8 West of Casa Grande, running West of I-10 South along a Kinney Road Alinement to Valencia Road then East on a Valencia Road to I-10 (With a Branch to Tucson International Airport) 
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2015, 12:58:43 AM »

Are those button copy signs on I-19 still there? Seems like ADOT has postponed any sign projects on that route. It'll be interesting to see what they install when a sign inevitably falls over or becomes unreadable.

Anyone know the status on that?

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 04:40:55 AM »

Yes they were.  Traveled in that area - just south of the newer I-10 / I-19 interchange around the end of March.  Kilometer signage as well - very faded.   Wish it was not as hard as heck to post some pics on this site, would be neat to share.   Btw there is still button copy on the Black Canyon freeway inside Phoenix city limits, also.   A lot better than this modern crap, "clearview" that is.   
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2015, 06:41:34 PM »

According to this link, it looks like the current western end of SR 210 (Aviation Highway) would be extended with an at-grade intersection with Broadway Blvd:

http://downtownlinks.info/app/uploads/2014/04/BroadwayIntersection-ThroughMovements_8_2013.pdf

At least there are still plans for a true freeway segment at its east end, if/when it gets connected to I-10 in southeast Tucson.
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2015, 07:18:38 PM »

Wish it was not as hard as heck to post some pics on this site, would be neat to share.

Here:

Post the link of the image. To do that, (on Chrome), right click on the image, and left click 'open image in new tab'. Then go to that tab, copy the link, and paste it in your post.

Example:

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b551/slik_sh00ter/I5South_zpsxmpxxnpt.png

Then, highlight the link, and click the "Image" button in the menu you see when you are typing a post. It is found below the 'bold' button and above the smilies.

Your link will have the image tags pasted around it. The first one at the beginning of the link, and the last one at the end.



If the picture is on your computer, upload it to a photo sharing site such as imgur or photobucket. Then follow the instructions above.

There should be a thread on how to share pictures on here...

andy3175

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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2015, 12:16:29 AM »

There should be a thread on how to share pictures on here...

Yes, please see https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9821.0 for a brief explanation on how to do it.
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2015, 09:36:16 PM »

I wonder, will ADOT eventually expand its travel times program to the Tucson area?  Starting this week in the Phoenix area, the travel times are now shown at all times (including weekends) except during overnight hours.  I don't think Tucson is too small of a city, since NMDOT in Albuquerque (a similarly sized metro area) posts travel times on the DMS installed there.
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2015, 03:04:38 PM »

I wonder, will ADOT eventually expand its travel times program to the Tucson area?

Hmm. Probably. Why not?
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Re: Tucson Freeways
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2015, 04:21:23 PM »

I wonder, will ADOT eventually expand its travel times program to the Tucson area?

Hmm. Probably. Why not?

Well, almost everybody knows that most Tucson residents are opposed to building new freeways.  Since there has to be an extensive ITS network available in order to display travel times, I wouldn't surprised if Tucson residents are also opposed to their taxpayer money being spent on improving the ITS network on Tucson area freeways.  After all, Tucson is the anti-Phoenix.
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