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Author Topic: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'  (Read 269750 times)

jamess

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2450 on: February 14, 2020, 04:20:47 PM »

Damn, they would have cleared the circle without those freakin' rocks!

It was built two years ago, according to Google Earth (can't find any online documents).

Another job well done in getting a dangerous driver off the road before they could kill someone.

Better no crashes at all.

Aside from a mandatory breath analyzer in every cars, what's another solution?
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jakeroot

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2451 on: February 14, 2020, 05:12:09 PM »

Better no crashes at all.
Aside from [clipped], what's another solution?
Even better if no one drove recklessly. They were bound to hit something or someone eventually.

So, if I get this correctly, the solution to crashes, is to cause the bad drivers to crash, learn their lesson (either by seriously injuring or killing themselves, and/or causing lots of property damage), and then...less crashes?

Seems kind of archaic. And a bit backwards, to be honest.

But there's a problem: bad drivers are born every day, they just don't hit the road for another 16 years. We need to do more to prevent bad driving to begin with, rather than ruining the life of someone whose judgement occasionally lapses. I guess this means either stricter training, more expensive licensing programs, cars that drive themselves, and importantly for us road-geeks: designing infrastructure to reduce the chance of collision.
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kalvado

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2452 on: February 14, 2020, 05:15:20 PM »

Better no crashes at all.
Aside from [clipped], what's another solution?
Even better if no one drove recklessly. They were bound to hit something or someone eventually.

So, if I get this correctly, the solution to crashes, is to cause the bad drivers to crash, learn their lesson (either by seriously injuring or killing themselves, and/or causing lots of property damage), and then...less crashes?

Seems kind of archaic. And a bit backwards, to be honest.

But there's a problem: bad drivers are born every day, they just don't hit the road for another 16 years. We need to do more to prevent bad driving to begin with, rather than ruining the life of someone whose judgement occasionally lapses. I guess this means either stricter training, more expensive licensing programs, cars that drive themselves, and importantly for us road-geeks: designing infrastructure to reduce the chance of collision.

Thinking about it... Such crashes are exact equivalent of T-bone on a traffic light. So one line less in roundabout advantages list?
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DaBigE

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2453 on: February 14, 2020, 06:58:54 PM »

Better no crashes at all.
Aside from [clipped], what's another solution?
Even better if no one drove recklessly. They were bound to hit something or someone eventually.

So, if I get this correctly, the solution to crashes, is to cause the bad drivers to crash, learn their lesson (either by seriously injuring or killing themselves, and/or causing lots of property damage), and then...less crashes?

Seems kind of archaic. And a bit backwards, to be honest.

No, you don't have it correctly, at least not based on what you selectively bolded. The context of my comment was exclusive of the (IRONY ALERT) traffic calming device. Someone going as fast as the person in the video is bound to hit something, especially when under the influence...another vehicle, tree, person taking their dog out to pee, etc. It unfortunately happens on perfectly straight roads without any obstacles such as a traffic circle (note: roundabouts DON'T have stop signs). I wasn't even beginning to imply that reckless drivers need to be taught a harsh lesson, rather it's the laws of probability: drive well in excess of the speed limit in an urban, tree and parked car-lined environment, chances are very high that the ending is not going to be good. Cut the reckless driving, and there would be a lot fewer crashes everywhere. What's shown in the video easily could have happened at a green-T intersection with similar results.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 07:03:01 PM by DaBigE »
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jakeroot

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2454 on: February 14, 2020, 08:04:09 PM »

Better no crashes at all.
Aside from [clipped], what's another solution?
Even better if no one drove recklessly. They were bound to hit something or someone eventually.

So, if I get this correctly, the solution to crashes, is to cause the bad drivers to crash, learn their lesson (either by seriously injuring or killing themselves, and/or causing lots of property damage), and then...less crashes?

Seems kind of archaic. And a bit backwards, to be honest.

No, you don't have it correctly, at least not based on what you selectively bolded. The context of my comment was exclusive of the (IRONY ALERT) traffic calming device. Someone going as fast as the person in the video is bound to hit something, especially when under the influence...another vehicle, tree, person taking their dog out to pee, etc. It unfortunately happens on perfectly straight roads without any obstacles such as a traffic circle (note: roundabouts DON'T have stop signs). I wasn't even beginning to imply that reckless drivers need to be taught a harsh lesson, rather it's the laws of probability: drive well in excess of the speed limit in an urban, tree and parked car-lined environment, chances are very high that the ending is not going to be good. Cut the reckless driving, and there would be a lot fewer crashes everywhere. What's shown in the video easily could have happened at a green-T intersection with similar results.

I agree that reckless driving needs to be "cut"...are circular intersections doing that?

Here:

Chance of successfully navigating a tight urban neighborhood street at high speeds while drunk: ~25%? (it's not 0%, but even 25% implies 3/4 of drivers will crash, which is probably high)
Chance of navigating straight through a circular junction at high speeds without issue: ~0% ("about", since there are mini-roundabouts that can be driven straight over, albeit it would be exceedingly uncomfortable, and a driver could lose control)
Chance of navigating straight through a regular intersection at high speeds without issue: >0% (probably pretty good, given how many intersections they've likely cleared already)
Chance of navigating straight through a T-intersection without issue: ~0% when approaching from the stem!

You're saying that, basically, there's a ton more ways that those drivers which are reckless in their behavior could cause harm to themselves and others. My point is that circular intersections are yet another thing on that list, and I don't see how that's necessarily benefitting anyone*.

*I'm actually fine with smaller traffic-calming circles...my comment is also exclusive of the circle at 4th/Daisy in Long Beach, and speaking more to larger circular intersections in general.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 10:25:52 PM by jakeroot »
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billpa

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2455 on: February 15, 2020, 08:48:41 AM »

That's not a modern roundabout. This crash belongs in another thread.

Pixel 2

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kphoger

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2456 on: February 15, 2020, 01:50:34 PM »

Man, every drunk driver I've had the (dis)pleasure of getting a ride from has gone way under the speed limit.  Granted, I've seen drunk drivers going over the speed limit, but I've never personally been in the car with such a driver.



That's not a modern roundabout. This crash belongs in another thread.

Great point.  Discussion over.
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DaBigE

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2457 on: February 15, 2020, 04:21:53 PM »

Man, every drunk driver I've had the (dis)pleasure of getting a ride from has gone way under the speed limit.  Granted, I've seen drunk drivers going over the speed limit, but I've never personally been in the car with such a driver.

DUI is broad and doesn't always mean alcohol. The way the driver was stated as getting out of the car makes it sound more like they were on a drug trip.
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jakeroot

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2458 on: February 17, 2020, 07:21:46 PM »

Would anyone know where to find data on the 106th St roundabout over I-69/IN-37 in Fishers?

It opened within the last couple years, and is definitely much larger than most roundabouts, as it spans across two overpasses:


https://ucindy.com/project/i-69-and-106th-street-interchange/
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kalvado

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2459 on: February 17, 2020, 07:38:22 PM »

Would anyone know where to find data on the 106th St roundabout over I-69/IN-37 in Fishers?

It opened within the last couple years, and is definitely much larger than most roundabouts, as it spans across two overpasses:

https://ucindy.com/project/i-69-and-106th-street-interchange/
I have no idea where the data can be, but have to say thet flying through the center of this one could have really interesting consequencies!
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jakeroot

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Re: Crash prone 'modern roundabouts'
« Reply #2460 on: February 18, 2020, 03:59:16 AM »

Would anyone know where to find data on the 106th St roundabout over I-69/IN-37 in Fishers?

It opened within the last couple years, and is definitely much larger than most roundabouts, as it spans across two overpasses:

https://ucindy.com/project/i-69-and-106th-street-interchange/
I have no idea where the data can be, but have to say thet flying through the center of this one could have really interesting consequencies!

Yeah, that's a good observation. With any luck, errant vehicles will come to a gentle stop after they slam into the jersey barrier. This is definitely one roundabout where a raised hill of vegetation is inadvisable, les you want cars flying over the freeway!
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