Oklahoma

[Bobby5280]

The opinion piece is pay-walled.

While I dislike paying tolls, the rates OTA charges are still a bargain compared to toll roads almost everywhere else in the country. The revenue raised is (mostly) concentrated on maintaining and improving those turnpikes.

If the state legislature did a 20¢ per gallon hike on gasoline taxes there is no guarantee that extra revenue would be concentrated on those 600+ miles of turnpikes. More likely, it would get spread around elsewhere, with most of it going into projects in the OKC and Tulsa metros. Hell, the extra revenue might even go into the state's general fund and get blown on all sorts of things not related to roads at all, such as pay raises for teachers. I'm all for teachers getting paid decently (Oklahoma's public school teachers are among the lowest paid in the nation), but that needs to be coming more from the property tax base. Not fuel taxes.

[rte66man]

I could also see at least one or more turnpikes downgraded into ordinary divided highways. The Indian Nation Turnpike is one example. The Chickasaw Turnpike is another.

IIRC OTA tried to "give" the Chickasaw to ODOT.  ODOT essentially said "You must be joking" even after OTA added a full interchange at US177 and did some pavement rehab.

[ElishaGOtis]

I am not OK with OK eliminating toll roads in favor of a gas tax increase, especially with electric & alt fuel vehicles becoming increasingly common as time goes on. Oklahoma is growing rapidly and is in significant need of improvements to its highway network. Tolling is the best way forward for new construction imho...

[Bobby5280]

That's another good point. Electric vehicles are indeed increasingly common on the roads. IIRC, such vehicles are sold with a tax surcharge added to make up to some extent for gasoline taxes that won't be incurred by such vehicles. I think Lithium-Ion battery technology is ultimately a dead-end; there's only so much Lithium in the world. If other technologies, such as carbon-based batteries, can be perfected and made in an affordable manner it could greatly increase the percentage of electric-based vehicles on the roads.

[ElishaGOtis]

If other technologies, such as carbon-based batteries, can be perfected and made in an affordable manner it could greatly increase the percentage of electric-based vehicles on the roads.

That kind of sounds like...

[Scott5114]

In a complete tolls-free system, Oklahoma's state government would have no choice but to raise gasoline taxes.

Keeping the tax low and letting the roads fall apart is also an option. Wouldn't even be the first time...remember when the OK-145 bridge dropped a chunk of concrete on that woman and killed her? What are the people gonna do about it, vote Democrat? Yeah right.

IIRC OTA tried to "give" the Chickasaw to ODOT.  ODOT essentially said "You must be joking" even after OTA added a full interchange at US177 and did some pavement rehab.

All that work did get ODOT to begrudgingly accept the section west of US-177 (it's SH Spur 7 now—why we needed a "spur" designation instead of something like 7A I don't know...)

[Bobby5280]

Keeping the tax low and letting the roads fall apart is also an option. Wouldn't even be the first time...remember when the OK-145 bridge dropped a chunk of concrete on that woman and killed her? What are the people gonna do about it, vote Democrat? Yeah right.

Yeah, I remember that tragedy. Oklahoma is already pretty bad about deferred maintenance on all sorts of things, including roads. The state government can try playing a game of allowing roads to deteriorate on a widespread basis in order to avoid raising fuel taxes. But that stunt can backfire.

We have a local example here in the Lawton area. 82nd Street has been one of the main outlets for the industrial park on the West side of town. That includes Goodyear's largest tire factory (which might be the world's largest). 82nd Street has fallen into disrepair because all those trucks have just beaten it to shit. But since the road is so bad it's causing damage to vehicles using it. Goodyear and others out there started raising all sorts of hell about it. Goodyear has done all sorts of expansions on its Lawton plant. But the company made it clear they have no sentimental attachment to any of it. They can re-locate various operations to other plants in the US or move them to Mexico or elsewhere if they don't like the conditions locally.

So, the county is trying to fix 82nd Street for the near term. But then they're going to extend Goodyear Blvd up to US-62 and ODOT will build a new freeway exit there (a $16 million project). When that's completed in the next couple or so years a whole lot of trucks will be on Rogers Lane (our shitty fake Interstate). That will open a new can of worms.

Anyway, crappy roads are bad for business. Existing in-state businesses don't like bad roads. Any businesses looking at new locations where to build don't like bad roads either.

[CoreySamson]

Anyway, crappy roads are bad for business. Existing in-state businesses don't like bad roads. Any businesses looking at new locations where to build don't like bad roads either.

Somebody forgot to tell Hochatown this...

[Bobby5280]

US-259 doesn't appear to be any worse than other 2-lane roads in rural Oklahoma. It does look like they might need to four-lane the segment of US-259 in Hochatown. The area generates a decent amount of tourism activity with Beaver's Bend State Park. Cabin rentals are popular. Plus the Choctaws built a fairly big new casino.

[rte66man]

US-259 doesn't appear to be any worse than other 2-lane roads in rural Oklahoma. It does look like they might need to four-lane the segment of US-259 in Hochatown. The area generates a decent amount of tourism activity with Beaver's Bend State Park. Cabin rentals are popular. Plus the Choctaws built a fairly big new casino.

It's on the 8-Year plan for FFY2029

[roadman65]

I see Oklahoma raised the speed limit on part of I-35 to match Kansas.

I always thought free interstates in the Sooner State were capped at 70 mph.

[Scott5114]

I see Oklahoma raised the speed limit on part of I-35 to match Kansas.

I always thought free interstates in the Sooner State were capped at 70 mph.

The law changed in 2020 (same law that raised the max for turnpikes from 75 to 80).

[roadman65]

When I drove the Will Rogers Turnpike from Vinita to Miami in 2023, the speed limit was still 75.  Thats why I asked.  Cause when is saw the max still at 75 on I-44, I thought maybe the 80 maximum speed limit didn't happen.

[Scott5114]

I think I-44 has traffic levels too high to qualify for 80 mph.

[Great Lakes Roads]

I think I-44 has traffic levels too high to qualify for 80 mph.

The OTA is rebuilding and widening the Turner Turnpike to six lanes with an 80 mph speed limit...

[bugo]

US 259 is a great road. It's two lanes, but it was engineered in the late 1950s and early 1960s, and it's a great mountain road. The stretch that crosses Kiamichi Mountain has some very sharp curves and the speed limit is like 25, but once you get south of the mountain, it straightens out and you can make good time. There are curves, but they are well-designed curves and you can fly at night when there isn't much traffic.

[Bobby5280]

When I drove the Will Rogers Turnpike from Vinita to Miami in 2023, the speed limit was still 75.  Thats why I asked.  Cause when is saw the max still at 75 on I-44, I thought maybe the 80 maximum speed limit didn't happen.

Parts of I-44 between Oklahoma City and Wichita Falls have 80mph posted speed limits. IIRC, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike Extension towards Norman has an 80mph speed limit. I wish they would have extended that all the way to I-35 when they built that turnpike spur over 20 years ago.

The OTA is rebuilding and widening the Turner Turnpike to six lanes with an 80 mph speed limit...

While I'm looking forward to all of I-44 between OKC and Tulsa being widened to six lanes, I'm still very skeptical they'll raise the speed limit to 80. Both the Turner Turnpike and Will Rogers Turnpike carry a lot of trucks. I could maybe see parts of the Will Rogers Turnpike getting bumped to 80mph speed limits. I think the Turner Turnpike is too busy for that to happen.

[kphoger]

Parts of I-44 between Oklahoma City and Wichita Falls have 80mph posted speed limits.

Yep.  Here is heading north from Chickasha, recently increased from 75 to 80.

[roadman65]

I think I-44 has traffic levels too high to qualify for 80 mph.

The OTA is rebuilding and widening the Turner Turnpike to six lanes with an 80 mph speed limit...

It didn't look like the Will Rogers is being widened. Only some overpasses were replaced to current standards I saw.  I guess that will be 75 for a long while.

[ElishaGOtis]

I see Oklahoma raised the speed limit on part of I-35 to match Kansas.

I always thought free interstates in the Sooner State were capped at 70 mph.

The law changed in 2020 (same law that raised the max for turnpikes from 75 to 80).

AFAIK, the law was changed before that to rescind any and all caps related to speed limits, but no speed limit was raised as a result of the cap being removed. As such, in 2020, a new law was passed that explicitly authorized 75 on Interstates and 80 on Turnpikes. ODOT & OTA seem to restrict speed limits based partially on design speed (can't be 100% certain on this), which seems to be why much of I-40 and I-35 is still posted at 70 despite being allowed to go higher.

[Scott5114]

IIRC, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike Extension towards Norman has an 80mph speed limit.

Yep. I was doing some work in Blanchard at the time, so I got to drive on it right when they raised it to 80 (I don't think it was day-of, but almost surely week-of).

[rte66man]

I think I-44 has traffic levels too high to qualify for 80 mph.

The OTA is rebuilding and widening the Turner Turnpike to six lanes with an 80 mph speed limit...

It didn't look like the Will Rogers is being widened. Only some overpasses were replaced to current standards I saw.  I guess that will be 75 for a long while.

Not true. Access Oklahoma has a project to 6-lane I44 from Catoosa to the OK20 exit at Claremore. That includes a rebuild of that interchange.

[ElishaGOtis]

I think I-44 has traffic levels too high to qualify for 80 mph.

The OTA is rebuilding and widening the Turner Turnpike to six lanes with an 80 mph speed limit...

It didn't look like the Will Rogers is being widened. Only some overpasses were replaced to current standards I saw.  I guess that will be 75 for a long while.

Not true. Access Oklahoma has a project to 6-lane I44 from Catoosa to the OK20 exit at Claremore. That includes a rebuild of that interchange.

Will also mention that many of the Access Oklahoma projects have the plans readily available on the website that show the design and posted speeds. Not every project has them, but a bunch do.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think I-44 has traffic levels too high to qualify for 80 mph.

Really the speed limit should be 100. I've been on this road enough times to know the speed limit and how fast people drive on this road it's a very fast high speed road.

[ElishaGOtis]

I think I-44 has traffic levels too high to qualify for 80 mph.

Really the speed limit should be 100. I've been on this road enough times to know the speed limit and how fast people drive on this road it's a very fast high speed road.

That or reasonable & prudent lol  that's how many turnpikes started out tbh... Kansas, Pennsylvania, etc.