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Author Topic: Oklahoma  (Read 24655 times)

bugo

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2023, 09:11:54 AM »

Why is everybody so hell-bent on giving OKC an I-x44 designation. Tulsa has ONE Interstate, OKC has 3. They can choose between I-x35 and I-x40. Tulsa might be getting I-46/48/50, but that may be years down the road. Tulsa might vey well run out of x44s, but, no, let's give them to OKC...
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bugo

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2023, 09:13:29 AM »

They can't call it OK 312 because there already is one.
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bugo

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2023, 09:28:36 AM »

Why are they proposing I-335 less than 75 miles away from OK 335, which was designated what, less than a year ago? Does the right hand know not what the left hand is doing?
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bugo

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2023, 09:33:23 AM »

The US 412 Interstate will be I-42:

Quote
a) Districts IV and VIII — Delaware, Mayes, Rogers, Tulsa, Osage, Pawnee, Payne and Noble Counties
Add Designation of I-42 in various locations throughout the state

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/transportation-commision/agenda/2023/tc_agenda-202309-r.pdf
« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 10:55:21 PM by bugo »
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bugo

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2023, 09:40:36 AM »

I'm guessing the first digits being 3s has more to do with the fact that all of the recently-assigned toll road numbers start with 3 than anything having to do with actual Interstate numbering rules.

As a result, OK-325's number becomes even more annoying. (Can we have OK-456, please?)

My idea is to truncate OK 3 at Boise City and remove that designation from US 385 to the north and reapply it to the Boise City-Kenton highway. That would at least give it a reason to exist west of US 81.
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bugo

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2023, 10:27:13 AM »

Here's the relevant section:

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Scott5114

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2023, 12:06:35 PM »

Why are they proposing I-335 less than 75 miles away from OK 335, which was designated what, less than a year ago? Does the right hand know not what the left hand is doing?

Where is OK-335?
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bugo

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #82 on: September 11, 2023, 12:21:07 PM »

I was thinking of I-344, not I-335. There is an OK 344 in Tulsa and an I-344 in OKC, about 75 road miles apart on I-44.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 02:26:26 PM by bugo »
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #83 on: September 11, 2023, 02:24:50 PM »

With all the 3-digit numbers being designated with a three as the first number, it can be hard to keep track of them all. I wouldn't be surprised if more such numbers were assigned in the future.
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Scott5114

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2023, 03:40:42 PM »

Hey, maybe OK-344 can become OK-342 now. :P
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Bobby5280

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #85 on: September 11, 2023, 07:20:17 PM »

Quote from: The Ghostbuster
I doubt OK 344 will get an Interstate designation, same with the Kickapoo Turnpike Extension.

The very idea they named the Gilcrease Expressway "OK-344" obviously implied an eventual I-344 designation. Otherwise why not give it some other 3xx number? When completed, the Gilcrease Expressway will meet Interstate standards. It would be stupid to have an I-344 route in OKC and SH-344 route in Tulsa (especially after the SH-344 route was already established).

As for the Kickapoo Turnpike, the I-335 idea seems to show the intent on getting the Kickapoo extension built down to Purcell and I-35. I think it would be silly to map an I-335 designation on both the Kickapoo Turnpike and East-West Connector to Newcastle. The end result would be more of an I-x44 loop route than anything related to I-35. Both ends of the signed route would be on I-44 and only intersect I-35 once.

Quote from: bugo
Why is everybody so hell-bent on giving OKC an I-x44 designation.

Not everyone is hell bent. I mentioned possibly giving the Kilpatrick Turnpike an I-x40 designation. It would probably make more sense to have the original North half of the Kilpatrick named something like "I-440" since it does function as city core bypass route for I-44 traffic destined for I-40.

Quote from: bugo
The US 412 Interstate will be I-42

Reminds me of an earlier joke I made along those lines. I wouldn't be surprised if "I-42" turned out to be the designation.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 07:23:11 PM by Bobby5280 »
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2023, 08:08:52 PM »

Weird how I-240 will end at the I-344/SH-152 junction and then become I-344 if continuing on the freeway. Makes me think(hope) they’ll go through with converting SH-152 through Mustang to a freeway one day regardless of the ROW needed which they can obtain and clear. One can dream.
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swake

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2023, 08:23:04 PM »

Quote from: The Ghostbuster
I doubt OK 344 will get an Interstate designation, same with the Kickapoo Turnpike Extension.

The very idea they named the Gilcrease Expressway "OK-344" obviously implied an eventual I-344 designation. Otherwise why not give it some other 3xx number? When completed, the Gilcrease Expressway will meet Interstate standards. It would be stupid to have an I-344 route in OKC and SH-344 route in Tulsa (especially after the SH-344 route was already established).

As for the Kickapoo Turnpike, the I-335 idea seems to show the intent on getting the Kickapoo extension built down to Purcell and I-35. I think it would be silly to map an I-335 designation on both the Kickapoo Turnpike and East-West Connector to Newcastle. The end result would be more of an I-x44 loop route than anything related to I-35. Both ends of the signed route would be on I-44 and only intersect I-35 once.

Quote from: bugo
Why is everybody so hell-bent on giving OKC an I-x44 designation.

Not everyone is hell bent. I mentioned possibly giving the Kilpatrick Turnpike an I-x40 designation. It would probably make more sense to have the original North half of the Kilpatrick named something like "I-440" since it does function as city core bypass route for I-44 traffic destined for I-40.

Quote from: bugo
The US 412 Interstate will be I-42

Reminds me of an earlier joke I made along those lines. I wouldn't be surprised if "I-42" turned out to be the designation.

Don't forget the Gilcrease, the eastern completed section, is OK-11. When the Gilcrease is completed something is going to have to be renumbered.
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Strider

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #88 on: September 11, 2023, 09:33:17 PM »

And what's with OKC's Interstate plan? I-335 for Kickapoo Turnpike? I-344 for John Kilpatrick Turnpike? I-240 only extends a little bit to end at I-344 and SH-152? What are they smoking?
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Strider

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2023, 09:37:46 PM »

This idea sounds a lot better than signing I-240 over both the Kilpatrick and Kickapoo turnpikes.

Wouldn't a I-344 designation make more sense for the Gilcrease Expressway (since that's already signed as OK-344)? I think the Kilpatrick should get a different I-x44 number, like an even-numbered designation such as "I-644" or "I-844". Or they could assign a different I-x40 number.

Normally I'd cry foul about the "I-335" odd numbered route idea for the Kickapoo Turnpike since both ends are at two Interstate routes. But I-335 in Kansas does the same thing already. So does I-355 in Chicagoland.

That I-335 designation for the Kickapoo Turnpike also clearly states the ultimate objective of the turnpike extending down to I-35 near Purcell. IMHO they also need to plan for extending the Kickapoo Turnpike North past I-44 and Luther up and over to I-35 near Guthrie. That could make something like an "I-835" designation more logical.


The only difference is that I-335 in Kansas started at I-35. I-355 originally started at I-55 before the extension south. OK's I-335 plan only goes from I-44 to I-40. Makes no sense. They could have just sign it as a state route (if it isn't already) at least until it connects to I-35 I'm assuming from the southern extension?
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Strider

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #90 on: September 11, 2023, 09:41:20 PM »



What I’m more confused about is that they are still extending I-240 west over an I-44 overlap and then over the SH-152 freeway. I get that it kind of makes sense to have one designation for the toll portion and another for the free, but two interstates ending at each other is dumb when there isn’t even another interstate involved at the junction. I’m not sure that exists anywhere else in the system. Why not just use I-344 for the SH-152 freeway? That would make 344 an even better beltway since it would connect to 44 on both sides.

The only one I can think of is I-495 and I-195 ending at MA-25 near Wareham, MA. But other than that? I don't know of one...?
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Bobby5280

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #91 on: September 11, 2023, 11:00:24 PM »

I'm scratching my head in confusion with this idea that I-240 would be extended along Airport Road, but end where the Southern extension of the Kilpatrick Turnpike begins. That's just damned silly.

If they're going to extend I-240 to the West of I-44 the friggin' extension should go all the way up to I-40. Let this "I-344" stuff or whatever it is they're talking about end at I-40 and go no farther South.

It's not like I-240 can be extended down and West thru Mustang. ODOT and OTA already blew a big opportunity of linking the H.E. Bailey Turnpike extension North and West up to I-40 over 20 years ago. Now the OK-4 route is kind of a mess due to missed opportunities. Having an I-240 and "I-335" route end at a state highway interchange is just nuts. It makes me think the folks who are making the big decisions don't know how to read a freaking road atlas.

Quote from: Strider
The only difference is that I-335 in Kansas started at I-35. I-355 originally started at I-55 before the extension south. OK's I-335 plan only goes from I-44 to I-40. Makes no sense.

The I-335 designation does make sense if it is applied to the current Kickapoo Turnpike and the proposed Kickapoo Extension down to I-35 near Purcell. It's like the OTA is throwing down the gauntlet and saying they're going to get all of the Kickapoo Turnpike built, with the route naming implying so.

If they can get the whole thing built down to a South terminus with I-35 near Purcell then the I-335 designation would be a correct choice.

If the OTA's intention is to sign "I-335" along the Kickapoo Turnpike and then along the East-West Connector over to Newcastle then that would be stupid. If they want both of those turnpike segments to carry the same route number then it should carry an I-x44 number since both ends would terminate at different points on I-44.
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Scott5114

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #92 on: September 12, 2023, 03:04:06 AM »

OK's I-335 plan only goes from I-44 to I-40. Makes no sense. They could have just sign it as a state route (if it isn't already) at least until it connects to I-35 I'm assuming from the southern extension?

You really want to give Oklahoma two chances to make ugly signs instead of just one?
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rte66man

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #93 on: September 12, 2023, 08:22:09 AM »

OK's I-335 plan only goes from I-44 to I-40. Makes no sense. They could have just sign it as a state route (if it isn't already) at least until it connects to I-35 I'm assuming from the southern extension?

You really want to give Oklahoma two chances to make ugly signs instead of just one?

I can't wait to see how the signage gets screwed up for this one.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2023, 01:08:33 AM »

8 year plan officially updated new and expedited projects listed.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects0/8-year-construction-work-plan.html

Quote
FY2024-2027 Asset Preservation Plan
$497 million in total investment
290 total projects
Rehabilitation of 146 highway bridges
More than 1,800 miles of pavement resurfacing
Notable projects added or advanced in the Eight-Year Construction Work Plan include:
In the Oklahoma City metro area, improvements to the I-35/I-240 and I-35/I-44 interchanges as well as resurfacing I-35 between the Oklahoma River and S.E. 89th
In the Tulsa metro area, improvements to the I-44 and US-75 interchange.
In Eastern Oklahoma, resurfacing of US-69 between Checotah and Eufaula in McIntosh County.
In Southeastern Oklahoma, adding shoulders along SH-37 west of Idabel and improvements on US-259 in Hochatown in McCurtain County moved forward to 2024.
In Southeast Central Oklahoma, bridge rehabilitations over I-44 at SH-37 East and S.W. 119th in Cleveland County and at SH-145 over I-35 in Garvin County.
In South Central Oklahoma, planning for improvements along I-35 between Marietta in Love County and Springer in Carter County, as well as an I-35 bridge reconstruction at Thackerville in Love County.
In Western Oklahoma, widening US-270 near SH-58 west of Watonga in Blaine County, and pavement reconstruction on I-40 west of US-281 in Caddo County.
In Northwest Oklahoma, adding shoulders to SH-45 in Alfalfa County and resurfacing part of US-281 in Alva in Woods County.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2023/more-than--9-billion-in-improvements-planned-for-oklahoma-highwa.html
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splashflash

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #95 on: October 03, 2023, 02:06:47 AM »

Nice to see 141St grade separated from US 75 in Glenpool, south of Tulsa in FY24.  $19M for the work, after $10M spent this year?
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will_e_777

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2023, 06:42:47 PM »

Nice to see 141St grade separated from US 75 in Glenpool, south of Tulsa in FY24.  $19M for the work, after $10M spent this year?

That needed to have been grade separated 20 years ago
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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #97 on: October 06, 2023, 07:51:45 PM »

Not to get political here, but legislators really need to come together and find a way to give ODOT some more money. There’s tons of road projects, especially in the OKC area that desperately need to be expedited.

One in mine is the I 35/240 interchange. 10 years ago the 8 yr plan had that to be finished by now. Last year when they announced the initiative to convert US 412 into interstate, I feel like a lot of projects got put on the back burner for that. They consistently push phases of the 35/240 interchange back and they did it again this year too. They had all remaining phases scheduled to begin construction in 2024. Originally it was supposed to have started construction in 2019 or 2020 if memory serves correct. Then they decided to split it up in phases and would do phase 1 and two, and then do all the remaining phases at once.

Then last year that went to shit. They pushed the phases back without even saying anything. Then had all remaining phases scheduled to begin in 2024. Now they have three phases scheduled to begin in 2024 with the last phase scheduled to be in 2025. This is a much more important project than upgrading US 412 or adding shoulders to some dinky Road in the middle of scenic nowhere that sees a few hundred cars a day.

What ODOT should really be focusing on is getting rid of some of the roads they own and maintain. Oklahoma has way too many state maintained roads. A lot of them are in areas that are pretty much on the decline.
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swake

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #98 on: October 06, 2023, 09:29:02 PM »

Not to get political here, but legislators really need to come together and find a way to give ODOT some more money. There’s tons of road projects, especially in the OKC area that desperately need to be expedited.

One in mine is the I 35/240 interchange. 10 years ago the 8 yr plan had that to be finished by now. Last year when they announced the initiative to convert US 412 into interstate, I feel like a lot of projects got put on the back burner for that. They consistently push phases of the 35/240 interchange back and they did it again this year too. They had all remaining phases scheduled to begin construction in 2024. Originally it was supposed to have started construction in 2019 or 2020 if memory serves correct. Then they decided to split it up in phases and would do phase 1 and two, and then do all the remaining phases at once.

Then last year that went to shit. They pushed the phases back without even saying anything. Then had all remaining phases scheduled to begin in 2024. Now they have three phases scheduled to begin in 2024 with the last phase scheduled to be in 2025. This is a much more important project than upgrading US 412 or adding shoulders to some dinky Road in the middle of scenic nowhere that sees a few hundred cars a day.

What ODOT should really be focusing on is getting rid of some of the roads they own and maintain. Oklahoma has way too many state maintained roads. A lot of them are in areas that are pretty much on the decline.

The Interstate 42 upgrades are largely going to be paid for by grant money, not money from other projects.
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/federal-grants/mpdg/2022/us-412-priority-improvements/project-information/narrative.pdf
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bugo

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Re: Oklahoma
« Reply #99 on: October 06, 2023, 11:05:29 PM »

US 75 in Glenpool

That needed to have been grade separated 20 50 years ago

Fixed.
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