Oklahoma

[Scott5114]

The only number left for a Gilcrease Expressway/Turnpike designation would be Interstate 844.

242, 442, 642, and 842 would also all be available. (And the odd x42s and x44s if you're fine with routes with ends at two different interstates getting odd first digits.)

[jdingus]

I was driving the Creek the other day and was wondering when it was going to be an Interstate..

When will they sign 644 and I-42 in Tulsa?

[The Ghostbuster]

Unknown on the former, and probably not for quite a while on the latter.

[swake]

Doesn't AASHOTE meet next week? Will they vote on this?

[swake]

I had to check the date, thinking this was posted on April 1. What is the OTA smoking? Where did they get this number? It doesn't run anywhere near OK 43, and I-43 is way up in Wisconsin. They must have pulled it out of their ass. Hopefully AASHTO will deny it and approve something like I-640 or I-840.

I'm praying the "I-343" number is a typo. If the AASHTO approves that incorrect designation it would be a signal that there is no working numbering system for Interstate highways anymore. Some politician needing a route number for a freeway/toll road project will grab any vanity number he desires.

I'd prefer that the OK 344 designation be maintained and extended along the entire duration of the Gilcrease.

When I first saw the OK-344 designation in Tulsa I thought it was labeled that way with the intention to eventually change it to I-344. Then the dopey stuff with I-344 happened in OKC. The route naming conflict could be solved with an I-844 designation applied to all of the Gilcrease Turnpike when it is completed.

I have a guess about how might I-343 fit in Oklahoma.

Today future Oklahoma Interstate-45 is mandated to eventually run from US-75 at the Texas state line to I-44 near Big Cabin mostly along the current path of US-69.

My guess is that ODOT has a plan to ask that part of the future I-45 corridor be correctly rerouted starting at McAlester.  This would have this part of future I-45 move to the path of the Indian Nations Turnpike on to US-75 and Tulsa as a major interstate connecting Dallas/Houston and Tulsa.

A "new" Interstate-43 would then be requested to replace the former future (say that three times) section of I-45 between McAlester and Big Cabin. This new I-43 would intersect the requested I-343 at Muskogee making the duplex make perfect sense in 2075 or whenever ODOT finishes upgrading US-69.

I have no inside information. Please pick this apart if it makes no sense, or less sense than numbering the Muskogee turnpike as I-343.

[bugo]

I have a guess about how might I-343 fit in Oklahoma.

Today future Oklahoma Interstate-45 is mandated to eventually run from US-75 at the Texas state line to I-44 near Big Cabin mostly along the current path of US-69.

My guess is that ODOT has a plan to ask that part of the future I-45 corridor be correctly rerouted starting at McAlester.  This would have this part of future I-45 move to the path of the Indian Nations Turnpike on to US-75 and Tulsa as a major interstate connecting Dallas/Houston and Tulsa.

A "new" Interstate-43 would then be requested to replace the former future (say that three times) section of I-45 between McAlester and Big Cabin. This new I-43 would intersect the requested I-343 at Muskogee making the duplex make perfect sense in 2075 or whenever ODOT finishes upgrading US-69.

I have no inside information. Please pick this apart if it makes no sense, or less sense than numbering the Muskogee turnpike as I-343.

I totally disagree. Oklahoma is myopic, and they don't look that far into the future. They did name the Kickapoo Turnpike I-335 because they eventually plan on connecting it to I-35, but there are future plans for that highway. There are no plans on an "I-43" in Oklahoma that I am aware of.

I don't believe there is a "Future I-45" at this time. It's a fantasy highway thing, not an official proposal as far as I know.

[Scott5114]

The simplest explanation—that it's either a typo or someone at OTA pulled the number out of their ass because they, like most Oklahoma government employees, don't know enough or care about doing their job correctly—fits the facts.

As a collective group, we've seen enough ODOT/OTA Specials™ to know what the score is.

[bwana39]

At this point, there is no formal proposal to take I-45 anywhere from its current end at I-30 on the south side of downtown Dallas.

FORMAL

There is lots of informal  discussion to extend I-45 to at least US-69 south of the Oklahoma state line. That discussion is pretty much moot without the eventual extension to at least I-40.

Oklahoma has a long way to go.

There is lots of discussion to follow US-69 from Texas to Big Cabin on I-44. The other discussion would be to Follow the Indian Nation Turnpike from US-69 to its end at Henryetta and follow US-62 /75 to Tulsa. In either case I-44 would seemingly be the termination.  I-44 and I-49 would carry the load.

Either way, the improved US-412 will likely pre-date this by a decade or more.

[Bobby5280]

A complete, Interstate-quality freeway upgrade of US-69 between I-40 and the Red River certainly won't happen for a long time -at least not unless there was some big federal-based push to make it happen. If such an upgrade depends on ODOT building it with state funding very little will be improved.

I do expect US-69/75 to be upgraded to Interstate quality from the Red River to US-70 in Durant. The existing freeway in Durant may also be improved (since it looks like it is in pretty bad shape). US-69 in McAlester will likely be fully improved to Interstate quality and maybe that freeway might be extended past the Savanna Army Ammunition Plant. Outside of those improvements nothing else is going to get done any time soon (if ever).

I don't think the Western "I-42" upgrade of US-412 is exactly a slam-dunk gonna happen thing either. Some portions of it might get signed as I-42. But there is going to be a couple of serious gaps to fill. The biggest gap is the one 20 or so miles wide between the East end of the Cherokee Turnpike at Dripping Springs and the West end of the AR-612 bypass. Nothing is really set to get around the Siloam Springs area. It could end up being just as a bad a road block as the ones along US-69/75.

[Plutonic Panda]

It's frustrating that Oklahoma wants to focus on all these stupid 3DIs and not ones that would make sense like I-45.

[sprjus4]

It's frustrating that Oklahoma wants to focus on all these stupid 3DIs and not ones that would make sense like I-45.

Probably because the 3dis are slapping shields on existing freeways, as opposed to upgrading long stretches of existing roadway to interstate standards with costly bridges, interchanges, access roads, and new location bypasses in some areas.

[Plutonic Panda]

It's frustrating that Oklahoma wants to focus on all these stupid 3DIs and not ones that would make sense like I-45.

Probably because the 3dis are slapping shields on existing freeways, as opposed to upgrading long stretches of existing roadway to interstate standards with costly bridges, interchanges, access roads, and new location bypasses in some areas.

Cheap and easy the true Oklahoma standard.

[Scott5114]

There is lots of informal  discussion to extend I-45 to at least US-69 south of the Oklahoma state line.

How informal are we talking here? Is this informal roadgeek discussion that doesn't matter worth a hill of beans, or do you have a source inside ODOT/OTA that has reported they're talking about it around the office there?

[bwana39]

There is lots of informal  discussion to extend I-45 to at least US-69 south of the Oklahoma state line.

How informal are we talking here? Is this informal roadgeek discussion that doesn't matter worth a hill of beans, or do you have a source inside ODOT/OTA that has reported they're talking about it around the office there?

More like the local agencies. CoC, Regional planning offices, water coolers, regional media. Certainly NOT anything as a true planning meeting with minutes.

[Scott5114]

I'd be interested to see some of this regional media discussing it. That's the sort of stuff you need to document it on the wiki.

[swake]

I-45 is not named as the designated interstate, but the 1991 ISTEA legislation does set the US-69 corridor in Oklahoma as a future interstate. I was wrong, this law does not authorize Oklahoma to continue US-69 as an interstate to all the way to Big Cabin. on I-44, just to Checotah on I-40.

1991 ISTEA legislation authorized Oklahoma to:

SEC. 1074. DESIGNATION OF UNITED STATES ROUTE 69.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, upon the request of
the Oklahoma State highway agency, the Secretary shall designate
the portion of United States Route 69 from the Oklahoma-Texas
State line to Checotah in the State of Oklahoma as a part of the
Interstate System pursuant to section 139 of title 23, United States
Code.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-105/pdf/STATUTE-105-Pg1914.pdf

Being set in law, this is not just imagination.

[Bobby5280]

I think the choice to end the future Interstate designation at I-40 near Checotah was a conservative one. That's based on what could be possibly completed within the next couple of decades. It's still likely other portions of the US-69 corridor will get upgraded North of I-40 on the way to Big Cabin.

The US-69 freeway segment in Central Oklahoma begins on the North side of McAlester and ends on the Southern outskirts of Muskogee, 17 miles North of the I-40 interchange. The freeway doesn't dead end at I-40.

I could see a segment of US-69 at the Mid America Industrial Park on the North side of Chouteau getting upgraded to Interstate standards. It could be accelerated by freeway improvements to US-412 (Future I-42) nearby.

For now, people in Muskogee are resistant to a US-69 freeway bypass being built. I don't know how people in Chouteu and Pryor feel about it. A new Interstate-quality freeway segment from US-412 to the North of Pryor could open more expansion opportunity for the Mid America Industrial Park.

[swake]

[quote author=Bobby5280 link=msg=2983735 date=1746984913
I could see a segment of US-69 at the Mid America Industrial Park on the North side of Chouteau getting upgraded to Interstate standards. It could be accelerated by freeway improvements to US-412 (Future I-42) nearby.
[/quote]

The US-412/I-42 upgrade project has a $32 million spend planned for next year (2026) to build an interchange at US-412B for the Mid America Industrial Park.

The existing interchange between US-412 and US-69 at Chouteau has money scheduled for buying right of way and moving utilities in 2030 for future improvements. The current interchange is interstate grade for US-412 today, but maybe not for US-69? The curves getting on and off US-69 are very tight. I'm not sure.

[Bobby5280]

The existing cloverleaf interchange at US-412 and US-69 isn't a freeway-to-freeway quality cloverleaf. The turns are too tight, especially where the ramps connect to US-69. The ramps would have to be completely re-built to support a freeway-to-freeway design.

Another problem is US-69 itself in that location. The town of Choteau is immediately North of the interchange. I don't think it would be practical to bulldoze a freeway upgrade nearly 2 miles directly thru the middle of Choteau. It might be possible to upgrade US-69 along the existing alignment South of US-412 up to that cloverleaf interchange. Still, the Love's location and other businesses on the South side of the interchange might be wiped out by a new interchange, regardless if it's a new cloverleaf design, a turbine interchange or even a Y interchange.

[Scott5114]

I-45 is not named as the designated interstate, but the 1991 ISTEA legislation...

So you don't actually have any proof that this is something someone in power has talked about more recently than 1991?

[bwana39]

I'd be interested to see some of this regional media discussing it. That's the sort of stuff you need to document it on the wiki.

https://www.kxii.com/2024/06/20/3-million-going-toward-denison-highway-project/
https://www.kxii.com/content/news/US-75-stretch-in-Sherman-only-section-in-Texas-not-up-to-interstate-standards-465287963.html
https://www.tex21.net/corridor-coalitions
There have been other odds and ends discussed on the Sherman / Ada media.


And yes, we have discussed it on here ad nauseum.  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22399.0

Not anything formal or even notable, just occasional chirps coming up.

[swake]

I-45 is not named as the designated interstate, but the 1991 ISTEA legislation...

So you don't actually have any proof that this is something someone in power has talked about more recently than 1991?

No. I said my memory was faulty. The law didn't specify 45 as the designation and the authorization of the route stopped at I-40. 

I will say that if ODOT doesn't plan decades into the future that's just another failure.

[bwana39]

Good news for Southern Oklahoma - ODOT will move forward with planning for a new 4-lane bridge across Lake Texoma to the south of the existing Roosevelt Bridge, which was built in 1942 and will remain.  ODOT is looking to offload the old bridge onto a nonprofit or other entity that would then preserve it and perhaps open it up for fishing or other activities.
 
ODOT selects new 4-lane alignment for US-70 Roosevelt Bridge replacement

This project just received $124 million from the feds and is scheduled to start construction in 2029. It would be nice if they could speed it up, but ODOT already has so much on their plate GIVEN HOW POORLY THEY'RE FUNDED I CAN'T REALLY BLAME THEM. Either way, this is great news. Sorry for the uppercase my phone just decided that sentence needed to be up because I'm using Speech to text and I'm too lazy to change it.

Here's the press release:

The White House announced Wednesday the Oklahoma Department of Transportation will receive a $124 million Large Bridge Project award through the Federal Highway Administration's Bridge Investment Program for the replacement of the US-70 Roosevelt Bridge across Lake Texoma between Kingston and Durant in Southeastern Oklahoma.

The grants, a part of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, will fund the reconstruction, repair and restoration of 13 nationally significant bridges spanning 16 states.

Oklahoma Department of Transportation Executive Director Tim Gatz said this is the largest transportation grant Oklahoma has been awarded in its history. The award surpasses the $85 million National Infrastructure Project Assistance (MEGA program) grant received in January 2023 that went toward the I-44 and US-75 interchange improvements in Tulsa. The final phase of that funding amount will be let to bid in September.
"This is exciting news for the state and we're grateful to Gov. Stitt and members of Oklahoma's Congressional and Legislative delegation and the Federal Highway Administration for seeing the importance of this corridor and helping the department secure an additional funding source," Gatz said. "The Roosevelt Memorial bridge is an outdated design - nearly 80 years old - and doesn't meet current or future traffic needs."

The project will improve the efficiency and reliability of moving people and freight, increase resiliency to flooding and increase safety through a potential pedestrian and bicycle crossing. Plans are to build the bridge to the south of the existing structure while keeping the current bridge open to traffic. The new bridge will be four lanes with shoulders, rumble strips and lighting. ODOT is proposing new and innovative alternative delivery methods with construction currently scheduled in the Eight-Year Construction Work Plan to begin in 2029. The bridge carries 8,500 vehicles per day.

Although half of the estimated cost of the project is coming from this grant, House Bill 2915, passed in the 2024 legislative session, allows the department the ability to bond up to $200 million against the project, which is currently estimated to cost more than $250 million. The legislation provides an opportunity to consider advancement of the project in the annual Eight-Year Plan, currently under rebalance and expected to be released this fall.
"We are committed to this priority project and want to move it forward as responsibly and as expeditiously as possible to meet the needs of the surrounding communities," Gatz said.

- https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2024/major-grant-secured-for-us-70-roosevelt-memorial-bridge-replacem.html

Not a moment too soon.The existing facility is down to  one lane   two narrowed lanes and a minimal speed limit for as much as 3-4 months (much of the summer lake season.)