Oklahoma

[kphoger]

It's easier to just get rid of the numbering conventions rather than people complaining about violations of them, ...

Actually, it's very easy to handle people complaining about numbering violations all the time.  This is because ...

... Non-roadgeeks do not care about this.

It's just a bunch of roadgeeks in an online echo chamber who are complaining.  Seems pretty easy to deal with, in my estimation.

[ElishaGOtis]

I'm afraid the I-343 bullshit is going to stand as-is. It will be a miracle if someone with any sense steps in and says the number has to change. In the unlikely case that happens, I-340 would be the only designation that would make sense (and comply with that 3xx numbering rule for OK turnpikes).

Changing I-343 to I-345 would be an act of counting chickens before they hatched. I strongly believe I-45 should be extended North along the US-69 corridor in Oklahoma up to Big Cabin. In the more near-future term it should be extended across the Red River to Durant. But it's all up to Texas to push the I-45 designation North of Downtown Dallas.

That or 342...

Has the FHWA said anything regarding this yet?

[Bobby5280]

That or 342...

I-342 would also make sense, but with some caveats. The highway would only connect to future I-42 via the IDL in Downtown Tulsa. Some upgrade work still needs to be done on the Broken Arrow Expressway, particularly between the IDL and I-44. The Muskogee Turnpike could be signed at I-340 right now.

[TBKS1]

It's easier to just get rid of the numbering conventions rather than people complaining about violations of them, ...

Actually, it's very easy to handle people complaining about numbering violations all the time.  This is because ...

... Non-roadgeeks do not care about this.

It's just a bunch of roadgeeks in an online echo chamber who are complaining.  Seems pretty easy to deal with, in my estimation.

I feel like in situations like this, I speak way more for the non-roadgeeks who just happen to live by this, not knowing how the system works. This forum in particular has really made people not be able to see outside of that sphere. This thread is an example of that.

[kphoger]

I feel like in situations like this, I speak way more for the non-roadgeeks who just happen to live by this, not knowing how the system works. This forum in particular has really made people not be able to see outside of that sphere. This thread is an example of that.

You might be interested in this thread that I started a long time ago, but which never really gained much traction:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7665.0

[Scott5114]

It's easier to just get rid of the numbering conventions rather than people complaining about violations of them, ...

Actually, it's very easy to handle people complaining about numbering violations all the time.  This is because ...

... Non-roadgeeks do not care about this.

It's just a bunch of roadgeeks in an online echo chamber who are complaining.  Seems pretty easy to deal with, in my estimation.

I feel like in situations like this, I speak way more for the non-roadgeeks who just happen to live by this, not knowing how the system works. This forum in particular has really made people not be able to see outside of that sphere. This thread is an example of that.

Counterpoint: Sometimes it's nice to just hang out with people who get why something is annoying, even if it doesn't matter all that much. If we wanted to talk to people who don't care about stuff like this, we know where to find them. Probably.

It would be much like going onto a cup-stacking forum and saying "Well, I personally don't really care if the cups fall down or not." Yeah, most people don't, so...?

[bwana39]

It's easier to just get rid of the numbering conventions rather than people complaining about violations of them, ...

Actually, it's very easy to handle people complaining about numbering violations all the time.  This is because ...

... Non-roadgeeks do not care about this.

It's just a bunch of roadgeeks in an online echo chamber who are complaining.  Seems pretty easy to deal with, in my estimation.

I feel like in situations like this, I speak way more for the non-roadgeeks who just happen to live by this, not knowing how the system works. This forum in particular has really made people not be able to see outside of that sphere. This thread is an example of that.

Counterpoint: Sometimes it's nice to just hang out with people who get why something is annoying, even if it doesn't matter all that much. If we wanted to talk to people who don't care about stuff like this, we know where to find them. Probably.

It would be much like going onto a cup-stacking forum and saying "Well, I personally don't really care if the cups fall down or not." Yeah, most people don't, so...?

So is it a time for a grand renumbering? It has happened before....

[Molandfreak]

More Oklahoma incompetence: apparently just because the FHWA website states the reason there is not an interstate 50, that prevents them from even applying for one:

Thank you for your question regarding the interstate route number designation for the Congressionally designated future Interstate for the US-412 corridor from I-35 in north central Oklahoma to  I-49 in Northwest Arkansas.  A designation as I-50 would have been nice in that route numbers ending in 0 represent major corridors and transcontinental routes. Unfortunately I-50 is not available. The reason is explained on the Federal Highway Administration website under Highway History/Interstate System Frequently Asked Questions.  The specific answer to your question is contained in the FAQ which I have copied below:

 

Why doesn't the Interstate System have an I-50?

 

The Interstate numbering plan was based on the plan used to number the U.S. numbered highways, but in mirror image (for example, U.S. 1 is on the East Coast, while I-5 is on the West Coast; U.S. 10 is in the north while I-10 is in the south). In both plans, numbers ending in zero are used for transcontinental and other major multi-State routes. However, one of the rules for Interstate numbering is that numbers are not duplicated on Interstate highways and U.S. numbered routes in the same State. Duplicate numbers would be confusing for motorists; for example, if told to take "Route 50," the motorist might follow the wrong one. Because the Interstate numbering plan is a mirror image of the U.S. numbered highway plan, I-50 would be located in some of the same States as U.S. 50 (Ocean City, Maryland, to Sacramento, California). Therefore, "50" has not been used for an Interstate route.

 

The best  options available to us in light of proximity to I-44 were I-42 and I-46 (Oklahoma is the 46th state).  The future Interstate has been officially designated I-42 by AASHTO and FHWA.

What lame excuses. I hope Texas applies for an I-50 which partially fits the grid to prove these naysayers (and Skluth) wrong.

[TheCatalyst31]

It's easier to just get rid of the numbering conventions rather than people complaining about violations of them, ...

Actually, it's very easy to handle people complaining about numbering violations all the time.  This is because ...

... Non-roadgeeks do not care about this.

It's just a bunch of roadgeeks in an online echo chamber who are complaining.  Seems pretty easy to deal with, in my estimation.

I feel like in situations like this, I speak way more for the non-roadgeeks who just happen to live by this, not knowing how the system works. This forum in particular has really made people not be able to see outside of that sphere. This thread is an example of that.

Counterpoint: Sometimes it's nice to just hang out with people who get why something is annoying, even if it doesn't matter all that much. If we wanted to talk to people who don't care about stuff like this, we know where to find them. Probably.

It would be much like going onto a cup-stacking forum and saying "Well, I personally don't really care if the cups fall down or not." Yeah, most people don't, so...?

So is it a time for a grand renumbering? It has happened before....

The AARoads wiki has enough on its plate without having to move all of those articles to new numbers.

[Plutonic Panda]

Nothing to celebrate about just projects the Oklahoma City chamber supports:

https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/policy/transportation-policy-priorities-for-oklahoma-s-future/?fbclid=IwdGRleAPiLhFleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeYYF678YDLkTvOP9XSdvY3GMDOkB1xa4QUK6E2iLkYCH1J9SP6JPw234AGME_aem_wH2aE75BjCsUjrVTN2Do2w

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about-us/public-meetings/2026/20260205.html

A public meeting on widening a section of I-35 between Purcell and Goldsby.

ODOT proposes the following:

• Adding one driving lane in each direction of I-35
• Widening shoulders to 10 feet
• Constructing a concrete barrier and adding lighting between northbound and southbound traffic
• Improving the northbound on-ramp and southbound off-ramp at Johnson Road
• Replacing or extending drainage structures

Construction on this project should start in 2027.

[rte66man]

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about-us/public-meetings/2026/20260205.html

A public meeting on widening a section of I-35 between Purcell and Goldsby.

ODOT proposes the following:

• Adding one driving lane in each direction of I-35
• Widening shoulders to 10 feet
• Constructing a concrete barrier and adding lighting between northbound and southbound traffic
• Improving the northbound on-ramp and southbound off-ramp at Johnson Road
• Replacing or extending drainage structures

Construction on this project should start in 2027.

Will be the same as the recently completed stretch between the OK9 and OK74 exits.

[Scott5114]

That was the stretch of I-35 I grew up next to. It was considered way out in the country then—kind of incredible that now it's getting the six-lane-with-Jersey-barrier treatment that even Norman didn't yet have when I was a kid.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Good news! Guess what on the OTA's meeting docket for this upcoming meeting on February 3rd?

ITEM 1362 Consider, take action and vote for the approval or disapproval of a Resolution in consultation with the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, assign and post numerical U.S. Highway, State Highway, Interstate Highway, or roadway designation, as appropriate, for the Creek and Muskogee Turnpikes. – Darian Butler

Watch it get approved! 

As a reminder- the Creek Turnpike will be getting the I-644 designation, and the Muskogee Turnpike will be getting the I-343 designation  ...

[bwana39]

Good news! Guess what on the OTA's meeting docket for this upcoming meeting on February 3rd?

ITEM 1362 Consider, take action and vote for the approval or disapproval of a Resolution in consultation with the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, assign and post numerical U.S. Highway, State Highway, Interstate Highway, or roadway designation, as appropriate, for the Creek and Muskogee Turnpikes. – Darian Butler

Watch it get approved! 

As a reminder- the Creek Turnpike will be getting the I-644 designation, and the Muskogee Turnpike will be getting the I-343 designation  ...

OK? Any idea why I-343 as opposed to ab I-?44?

[The Ghostbuster]

The Muskogee Turnpike doesn't directly connect with Interstate 44 (or 244 or unsigned 444). That's why I think the proposed number should have been Interstate 340. Now if the proposed Interstate were to extend westward to the US 64/US 75/OK 51/Interstate 444 interchange, or waited until OK 364 becomes Interstate 644, then an Interstate 44 3di would be appropriate.

[Bobby5280]

Yeah, an "I-340" designation would be a far more logical choice for the Muskogee Turnpike than the "I-343" nonsense. The only way someone could justify an "I-343 designation is if the US-75 freeway in Tulsa was labeled as a second I-43 and the I-343 route number went all the way into downtown Tulsa to the Inner Dispersal Loop to connect with US-75.

I-238 in the SF Bay Area is the only 3-digit Interstate route without a 2-digit parent; that number was applied since it overlapped an existing CA-238 route. In the case of the Muskogee Turnpike the existing route number is OK-351. Why didn't the OTA try to apply for an "I-351" designation? Where does the I-343 thing come from? The number choice just seems completely arbitrary.

[swake]

The Muskogee Turnpike doesn't directly connect with Interstate 44 (or 244 or unsigned 444). That's why I think the proposed number should have been Interstate 340. Now if the proposed Interstate were to extend westward to the US 64/US 75/OK 51/Interstate 444 interchange, or waited until OK 364 becomes Interstate 644, then an Interstate 44 3di would be appropriate.

The Muskogee Turnpike becomes The Broken Arrow Expressway starting at Coweta and it connects to I-44, I-244 and the future I-42. It is interstate quality from the turnpike to I-44. Part of the BA is not IQ  in the section from I-44 to the downtown Inner Dispersal Loop. The highway has railroad tracks in the median and no shoulders to speak of from about 15th street to Sheridan Rd, but I have seen worse interstates in other cities.

The Muskogee Turnpike easily could have had a X44 or X42 designation.

Trivia: Technically the Creek Turnpike and Muskogee turnpikes have the same name, or rather are named for the same thing. "Creek" is the white mans name for the Muscogee tribe. Muskogee is just an alternate English spelling of Muscogee. The Muskogee turnpike is named for the town, which originally was a Muscogean town named for the tribe. The Creek turnpike was named for the tribe directly, with the white man's name for the tribe.

[bugo]

I've never heard anybody self-describe themself as "Muscogee". It's always "Creek Indian".

[Bobby5280]

Some people will mention the original tribe name, although it's kind of rare. It's definitely easier to say Creek than it is to say Muscogee. Years ago I dated one lady who was Comanche but had some relatives who were in the Sac and Fox tribe, but she used the Sauk and Meskwaki names when mentioning the tribe.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Good news! Guess what on the OTA's meeting docket for this upcoming meeting on February 3rd?

ITEM 1362 Consider, take action and vote for the approval or disapproval of a Resolution in consultation with the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, assign and post numerical U.S. Highway, State Highway, Interstate Highway, or roadway designation, as appropriate, for the Creek and Muskogee Turnpikes. – Darian Butler

Watch it get approved! 

As a reminder- the Creek Turnpike will be getting the I-644 designation, and the Muskogee Turnpike will be getting the I-343 designation  ...

APPROVED

[Bobby5280]

The important part of the video (regarding the I-644 and I-343 designations) starts around the 18 minute mark and runs for a few minutes. One of the speakers spoke briefly about the numbering system for Interstate highway routes.

NOBODY SAID JACK SHIT WHY THE "I-343" DESIGNATION WAS CHOSEN!
No explanation on that one at all. Strangely, no one in the room asked the painfully obvious question why an I-343 designation can be chosen when there is no parent I-43 route in Oklahoma.

It's no surprise OTA has comments turned off with the YouTube video.

They did mention these approved Interstate designations still have to go to the FHWA for final approval. So there is still a remote chance someone somewhere will pull their head out of their ass and take notice of the problem with I-343.

[kphoger]

NOBODY SAID JACK SHIT WHY THE "I-343" DESIGNATION WAS CHOSEN!
No explanation on that one at all. Strangely, no one in the room asked the painfully obvious question why an I-343 designation can be chosen when there is no parent I-43 route in Oklahoma.

That's because nobody outside this forum cares.

[Bobby5280]

That's because nobody outside this forum cares.

More people than just "road geeks" are going to notice the bullshit. What's funny is the one guy in that YouTube video explained with "I-644" was chosen for the Creek Turnpike, noting that it connected to I-44. Conspicuously he said nothing about "I-343."

Someone at the OTA or in the Oklahoma state government has a special hard-on for that I-343 number. I hope the FHWA ultimately rug-pulls it.

[Scott5114]

I hope the FHWA ultimately rug-pulls it.

You're pinning your hopes on an organization run by a man whose biggest claim to fame at the time he was hired was being on a reality TV show?