Oklahoma

[bugo]

I'm still mad that Red Tomahawk has been erased from North Dakota route shields.

I took this picture in 2009 in Velva, ND. It was not only of a design that would soon become obsolete, but it was an error shield. (It should have been US 52.) Those shields were much cooler than the new ones. Removing the Indian was pointless because it was modeled after a real person. Some Natives were offended by its removal. I wonder how long it will be before Washington changes its route shields because something will come out about George Washington and he will be "cancelled".

I did talk to one guy who said that he preferred "Indian" and that "Native American" (and, presumably, any name with "American" in it) was offensive because when they first arrived in what is today's North America, the continent wasn't called (North and South) America at the time. Europeans didn't have a name for it. He did have a point.

Don't call me "American" because that's the white man's name for my land.  But please call me "Indian", even though that's the white man's name for my people.  Yeah, OK...

It wasn't a consistent point of view, no question. But my point was that the term "Native American" is offensive to some. You literally cannot please everybody all of the time. No matter what you do or say, it will be offensive to somebody.

[kphoger]

So...what name would you choose and therefore impose on them, then?

My point was only that his reasoning was confusingly inconsistent.  Call him whatever he wants to be called.

FWIW, the ones in my own social circle (my next-door neighbors, who even have company over for a drum circle in their front yard on Sundays during the warmer months) call themselves 'Indians'.  And the museum and cultural center here in town (where powwows in the region are held) is called 'Indian', with its mission statement and website using the term 'American Indian' consistently.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm not gonna post this on every state just Oklahoma cause that's the state that I'm from but seven new states including Oklahoma are going to allow you to add your drivers license to your Apple Wallet.

https://www.newsweek.com/seven-more-states-iphone-drivers-licenses-11496673

[BigOkie]

Not sure if this belongs here or somewhere else (if it doesn't feel free to nuke or move it), but I was driving I-244 westbound in Tulsa just after entering from the Memorial on-ramp, I noticed that the milepost signs are now something looking like this:

https://imgur.com/7S4NUJ2

Previously they looked like this:

https://imgur.com/yPDlyRB

I think this is the first time on any interstate in Oklahoma I've seen that style mile marker.  I've seen them in other states, but first time here.  At least for me.

[Scott5114]

The south half of I-35 has had those for about a decade now. I guess they've just been slow in getting them rolled out to the rest of the state.

[BigOkie]

The south half of I-35 has had those for about a decade now. I guess they've just been slow in getting them rolled out to the rest of the state.

Ha, I haven't been south of OKC in about 8 years.

[Bobby5280]

Those kinds of mile markers are common on I-44 down thru Lawton.

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://us75south.transportationplanroom.com/

US 75 Corridor Study from Okmulgee County line to SH-67 (151st Street).

[Plutonic Panda]

Oklahoma just passed a bill regarding the gas tax which effectively shoots down an existing law which would raise the fuel tax if congress ever suspended the federal fuel tax:

https://oklahomavoice.com/2026/05/19/oklahoma-greenlights-changes-to-gas-tax-law-in-anticipation-congressional-action/

[kphoger]

raise the fuel tax if congress ever suspended the federal fuel tax

That's actually quite the cheeky move:  Well, if the federal government doesn't want that tax money, then I guess we'll take it instead.

[swake]

https://us75south.transportationplanroom.com/

US 75 Corridor Study from Okmulgee County line to SH-67 (151st Street).

I'd like to see the study they mention for the section from about 85th to 151st. I have heard many times it will be 6 lanes and have service roads going south from 121st in Glenpool at least. Not sure service roads are really possible through Jenks with the turnpike interchange and all the creek bridges.

Hopefully they will learn from their mistake in attempting to just repair the bridges over Polecat Creek instead of replacing them with new bridges with 6 lanes. The backups from construction today are epic, and whenever they replace them it will only be worse. And they will have wasted the repair money just to tear down the repaired bridges in a few years. 

[Plutonic Panda]

If it's really that bad might as well make it 8 lanes to "future proof" it.

[swake]

If it's really that bad might as well make it 8 lanes to "future proof" it.

Yeah, they are trying to put 60,000 cars a day through one lane in each direction right now. The backup is over three miles every day, more than a little due to Oklahomans being too dumb to figure out the zipper merge. Good for me because I can cruise right by more than a mile of stopped cars.

[vdeane]

If it's really that bad might as well make it 8 lanes to "future proof" it.

Yeah, they are trying to put 60,000 cars a day through one lane in each direction right now. The backup is over three miles every day, more than a little due to Oklahomans being too dumb to figure out the zipper merge. Good for me because I can cruise right by more than a mile of stopped cars.

Doesn't Oklahoma have some law making the zipper merge illegal or something?

[swake]

If it's really that bad might as well make it 8 lanes to "future proof" it.

Yeah, they are trying to put 60,000 cars a day through one lane in each direction right now. The backup is over three miles every day, more than a little due to Oklahomans being too dumb to figure out the zipper merge. Good for me because I can cruise right by more than a mile of stopped cars.

Doesn't Oklahoma have some law making the zipper merge illegal or something?

Nope, this is a mandated zipper merge with "stay in lane" signs and warning signs that this is a zipper merge and finally that cars should take turns merging at the merge point. And the line of cars remains a mile longer in the right lane.

There are five or six signs at least in each direction detailing the merge and yet I've gotten in arguments with others that drive it everyday that it's a zipper merge or that the speed limit is too high for a zipper merge and is dangerous, whatever that means.

[Scott5114]

So was "STATE LAW / MERGE NOW →" never actually a law, or...?

[kphoger]

So was "STATE LAW / MERGE NOW →" never actually a law, or...?

From what I've seen firsthand, Oklahoma uses either one or the other, depending on the particular construction zone.  I've personally driven through both types on the same day.

The "STATE LAW / MERGE NOW" thing remains a traffic law in Oklahoma, corresponding with the signs:

Title 47 — Motor Vehicles

§ 47-11-1302 — Maintenance and construction zones

D.  The "Merge Now" traffic-control device that is used to warn and guide the public using the highway to merge shall be located in advance of the highway construction or maintenance area in accordance with the standards set forth in the most current edition of the Federal Highway Administration's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices.  Whenever any traffic-control device requires traffic to merge due to the closure of a section or lane of highway, the merge shall be completed:

1.  As soon as practicable after passing the traffic-control device;  and

2.  Without passing any other traffic proceeding in the same direction.

However, zipper merges have been allowed in Oklahoma as well, legally since 2018 and first implemented in 2021:

Oklahoma's first Zipper Merge coming to I-35 in Pauls Valley this week — 10 MAR 2021

Until 2018, state law in Oklahoma required drivers in all highway work zones to merge a certain distance from the lane closure with "State Law, Merge Now" signs posted in construction areas as a reminder ...

A recent change in state law now allows other work zone arrangements that meet national standards.  This means the Zipper Merge can be used where appropriate but is not required in all work zones statewide.  Drivers must continue to observe the signage in each work zone and merge as directed.  Along with the flashing digital signs, orange work zone signs can also be used to alert drivers that a Zipper Merge is ahead and to direct traffic to use both lanes and take turns merging.

[vdeane]

What is even the point of forcing people to merge over well before the lane ends?  That situation strikes me as essentially being a zipper merge, but not signed that way, way too early, and with a ton of pavement afterwards not physically blocked off.

[kphoger]

What is even the point of forcing people to merge over well before the lane ends?  That situation strikes me as essentially being a zipper merge, but not signed that way, way too early, and with a ton of pavement afterwards not physically blocked off.

I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.  Those signs and the traffic law that accompanies them are my biggest pet peeve about driving in Oklahoma.  That's why I was glad to see my first Oklahoma zipper merge a couple of years ago on I-35.  (Actually, the 'old' way isn't a zipper merge, because one lane is clearly the ending lane that requires merging over.)

[rte66man]

https://us75south.transportationplanroom.com/

US 75 Corridor Study from Okmulgee County line to SH-67 (151st Street).

I'd like to see the study they mention for the section from about 85th to 151st. I have heard many times it will be 6 lanes and have service roads going south from 121st in Glenpool at least. Not sure service roads are really possible through Jenks with the turnpike interchange and all the creek bridges.

Hopefully they will learn from their mistake in attempting to just repair the bridges over Polecat Creek instead of replacing them with new bridges with 6 lanes. The backups from construction today are epic, and whenever they replace them it will only be worse. And they will have wasted the repair money just to tear down the repaired bridges in a few years. 

Since ODOT doesn't have widening starting until 2031, I doubt you can get a straight answer from them. I agree it should be 8 lanes at Polecat Creek ti help with merging traffic from the Creek Turnpike interchange.

[Scott5114]

What is even the point of forcing people to merge over well before the lane ends?  That situation strikes me as essentially being a zipper merge, but not signed that way, way too early, and with a ton of pavement afterwards not physically blocked off.

Yeah, but with a zipper merge, you can't get self-righteous about how you're a better person because you got over early and all the people passing you are cheating.

[kphoger]

Yeah, but with a zipper merge, you can't get self-righteous about how you're a better person because you got over early and all the people passing you are cheating.

Man, I'm getting irritated just reading that, even though I know you're joking, and even though I'm not even driving.

[Scott5114]

Yeah, but with a zipper merge, you can't get self-righteous about how you're a better person because you got over early and all the people passing you are cheating.

Man, I'm getting irritated just reading that, even though I know you're joking, and even though I'm not even driving.

I regret to inform you that it's not really much of a joke; this is actually how a lot of people think in Oklahoma.

When I worked as a slot attendant in Oklahoma we used to have preshift meetings where, as a get-to-know-your-coworkers-better exercise, they would let one of us ask a question which each person would answer in turn. One time I asked "When a lane is closing on the highway, do you get over when you see the lane-ends-ahead sign, or do you wait until you're at the cones?" Man, I should have just asked about people's politics or religion. Everyone went out on the floor mad at each other after that.

[kphoger]

I regret to inform you that it's not really much of a joke; this is actually how a lot of people think in Oklahoma.

When I worked as a slot attendant in Oklahoma we used to have preshift meetings where, as a get-to-know-your-coworkers-better exercise, they would let one of us ask a question which each person would answer in turn. One time I asked "When a lane is closing on the highway, do you get over when you see the lane-ends-ahead sign, or do you wait until you're at the cones?" Man, I should have just asked about people's politics or religion. Everyone went out on the floor mad at each other after that.

Oh, I don't doubt.  The most memorable on-the-road case for me personally was in Oklahoma.  Some regional trucker was riding the dashed white line in order to prevent anyone from using the left lane for its remaining ¾ mile and, if anyone got close, he'd move over into the left lane itself to block them even more.  The highway had a decent-sized left shoulder, so I simply passed the vigilante dude on the shoulder instead.

[vdeane]

What is even the point of forcing people to merge over well before the lane ends?  That situation strikes me as essentially being a zipper merge, but not signed that way, way too early, and with a ton of pavement afterwards not physically blocked off.

Yeah, but with a zipper merge, you can't get self-righteous about how you're a better person because you got over early and all the people passing you are cheating.

New York had one set up last year, but they still signed it "left lane closed", so a lot of people ignored the "use both lanes to merge point" and did just that.