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Author Topic: I-65 downtown crossing  (Read 30097 times)

mvak36

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2016, 12:45:00 AM »

I've been looking through some of their dash-cam videos on their site. It's looking nice. :D

I still don't like the Clearview signs on the KY side, but oh well.
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2trailertrucker

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2016, 06:29:35 AM »

The problem with the tolls on the east end bridge is that they are essentially competing with a route which is equal distant AND FREE.
To Lexington from Indy. The mileage for I 74, I 275, I 75 is about equal distant to the I-65, I-64 route. And if you are in a car, Adding Indiana route 1 puts the first one way ahead.
Adding I 265 in between 65 and 64 wont drop the mileage age due to the east side of Louisville routing.

The downtown bridge, will be more problematic. They are playing a bit of funny business. To get on the 31 bridge from the Indiana side  I-65 requires you exit onto the local lanes way back in Clarksville. All it would take is a little creative removing the 31 shields from the signs to "entrap" folks to getting onto the toll bridge.

GPS's route people coming from Indy to Lexington through Louisville, and that is the way they will take. Sad, but true. With that being said, when the Brent Spence is re built, it too will be tolled. This is just the beginning.
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codyg1985

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2016, 07:57:14 AM »

The problem with the tolls on the east end bridge is that they are essentially competing with a route which is equal distant AND FREE.
To Lexington from Indy. The mileage for I 74, I 275, I 75 is about equal distant to the I-65, I-64 route. And if you are in a car, Adding Indiana route 1 puts the first one way ahead.
Adding I 265 in between 65 and 64 wont drop the mileage age due to the east side of Louisville routing.

The downtown bridge, will be more problematic. They are playing a bit of funny business. To get on the 31 bridge from the Indiana side  I-65 requires you exit onto the local lanes way back in Clarksville. All it would take is a little creative removing the 31 shields from the signs to "entrap" folks to getting onto the toll bridge.

GPS's route people coming from Indy to Lexington through Louisville, and that is the way they will take. Sad, but true. With that being said, when the Brent Spence is re built, it too will be tolled. This is just the beginning.

These days, it is either that, or it won't be built at all.
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Cody Goodman
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Moose

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2016, 09:34:12 AM »


GPS's route people coming from Indy to Lexington through Louisville, and that is the way they will take. Sad, but true. With that being said, when the Brent Spence is re built, it too will be tolled. This is just the beginning.

It's so close, it depends on what side of town your on. I noticed that from the east side of town, it sent you via Cincinatti.

Brent Spence bridge wont affect anything, it's far quicker to use the west side I-275 bridge. Cinnci has a ton of bridges. 2 loop interstate bridges, 2 downtown interstate bridges, 3 surface street bridges, and a pedestrian bridge. Compare that to Louisville's 2 interstate bridges, (With 1 more loop bridge being built) and 1 surface street bridge. No WAY they can toll one bridge with all the other options in Cinci.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 09:43:26 AM by Moose »
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TR69

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2016, 10:47:44 AM »


Cinnci has a ton of bridges. 2 loop interstate bridges, 2 downtown interstate bridges, 3 surface street bridges, and a pedestrian bridge. Compare that to Louisville's 2 interstate bridges, (With 1 more loop bridge being built) and 1 surface street bridge. No WAY they can toll one bridge with all the other options in Cinci.

Side note: the K&I Bridge between Louisville and New Albany carried vehicular traffic until 1979. Now, with the huge success of the Big Four Bridge being opened to foot and non-motorized traffic, some folks are pushing (albeit rather weakly) to at least re-open the K&I to feet and bikes. Unfortunately Norfolk Southern's response to this, so far, has been, "No way in hell."
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seicer

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2016, 12:14:04 PM »

How is tolling sad?

It's sad that the federal gasoline tax hasn't been raised in many years. And that the federal Highway Trust Fund has been allowed to go bankrupt for years now because of political inaction. Pegging the federal gasoline tax to inflation would be the best alternative, but absent of that, tolling is the next best option.

If you don't like it, there are other ways of traveling.
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Avalanchez71

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2016, 12:22:53 PM »

Tolling is sad.  Why should we raise the fuel tax since there are more folks paying now?
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Moose

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2016, 02:36:57 PM »


Cinnci has a ton of bridges. 2 loop interstate bridges, 2 downtown interstate bridges, 3 surface street bridges, and a pedestrian bridge. Compare that to Louisville's 2 interstate bridges, (With 1 more loop bridge being built) and 1 surface street bridge. No WAY they can toll one bridge with all the other options in Cinci.

Side note: the K&I Bridge between Louisville and New Albany carried vehicular traffic until 1979. Now, with the huge success of the Big Four Bridge being opened to foot and non-motorized traffic, some folks are pushing (albeit rather weakly) to at least re-open the K&I to feet and bikes. Unfortunately Norfolk Southern's response to this, so far, has been, "No way in hell."

Yes I should have given Louisville credit for a pedestrian bridge.

The K&IT bridge wont happen. The former northbound lane is used by NS company vehicles (and some employees) regularly. The former southbound lane is unusable it is blocked by the re-aligned railroad which swings to the west and blocks it.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 02:50:19 PM by Moose »
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hbelkins

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #83 on: October 12, 2016, 03:43:23 PM »

My dad had a bit of roadgeek in him. I remember, as a kid, us crossing the K&I "just because."
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seicer

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #84 on: October 12, 2016, 05:36:00 PM »

Tolling is sad.  Why should we raise the fuel tax since there are more folks paying now?

That's not necessarily true. Even if you had more users, when you take into account construction cost growth, the average state's gasoline tax rate has effectively been -20%/6.8 cents per gallon. Diesel taxes have fallen by 18%/6 cents per gallon. ITEP has three simple solutions that would solve this issue:

1. Increase gas tax rates to reverse long term declines.
2. Peg the gas tax rates to inflation.
3. Create targeted tax credits for low income families.

I mean, 22 states haven't raised their gas taxes in over a decade. When Michigan recently tried to do just that, it was rejected by 80% of voters. It's a political nightmare.

From http://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/gov-gas-tax-revenue-states-inflation.html --

"The federal government’s 18.4-cent gasoline tax brought in a fifth less, in inflation-adjusted dollars, in 2013 than in its first year at that level. That revenue decline comes over a period when the country’s population grew by a fifth, adding more strain to the nation’s transportation’s networks.

But fuel taxes generate less revenue in states, too. In 18 of 48 states with comparable data over the last two decades, state-imposed fuel taxes have not kept up with inflation. In some states, the drop-off is significant. In New Mexico and Illinois, fuel taxes brought in a quarter less in 2014 than when Congress raised the federal gas tax two decades ago. For Alaska, the drop-off was a third. Rhode Island’s gas tax revenues dwindled the most: The Ocean State’s fuel taxes had just half the purchasing power in 2014 as they did in 1994."
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Avalanchez71

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #85 on: October 12, 2016, 05:46:01 PM »

The governor in Tennessee is trying to go down the road of raising the gas tax.  The legislature is not even in session until January and it is already a big deal and likely not likely to happen.
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cabiness42

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2016, 02:36:11 PM »

The problem with the tolls on the east end bridge is that they are essentially competing with a route which is equal distant AND FREE.
To Lexington from Indy. The mileage for I 74, I 275, I 75 is about equal distant to the I-65, I-64 route. And if you are in a car, Adding Indiana route 1 puts the first one way ahead.
Adding I 265 in between 65 and 64 wont drop the mileage age due to the east side of Louisville routing.

The downtown bridge, will be more problematic. They are playing a bit of funny business. To get on the 31 bridge from the Indiana side  I-65 requires you exit onto the local lanes way back in Clarksville. All it would take is a little creative removing the 31 shields from the signs to "entrap" folks to getting onto the toll bridge.


For thru traffic, sure, but there are a lot of people who live east of I-65 on one side of the river and commute to a spot east of I-65 on the other side of the river.  That bridge will save 20+ minutes off a lot of people's commute times, and if they get a transponder and make 40+ trips per month, the $2/day is going to be a reasonable cost for saving that time.
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dvferyance

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2016, 03:19:07 PM »

The problem with the tolls on the east end bridge is that they are essentially competing with a route which is equal distant AND FREE.
To Lexington from Indy. The mileage for I 74, I 275, I 75 is about equal distant to the I-65, I-64 route. And if you are in a car, Adding Indiana route 1 puts the first one way ahead.
Adding I 265 in between 65 and 64 wont drop the mileage age due to the east side of Louisville routing.

The downtown bridge, will be more problematic. They are playing a bit of funny business. To get on the 31 bridge from the Indiana side  I-65 requires you exit onto the local lanes way back in Clarksville. All it would take is a little creative removing the 31 shields from the signs to "entrap" folks to getting onto the toll bridge.

GPS's route people coming from Indy to Lexington through Louisville, and that is the way they will take. Sad, but true. With that being said, when the Brent Spence is re built, it too will be tolled. This is just the beginning.
If that's the case then I will just use the I-275 bridge instead. The Brent Spence is my current alternative to avoid the I-65 toll bridge.
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JMoses24

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2016, 06:49:54 PM »

Five of the six lanes of the Kennedy Bridge reopened this morning carrying southbound traffic.  The far right lane, which will be the exit lane for I-64 West, is closed until the reconstruction of the exit finishes next month.  The other five lanes, from right to left, are for I-71 North, I-64 East, Jefferson/Brook Streets and two for thru traffic.

Despite the removal of southbound traffic from the Lincoln Bridge, there are still only three lanes for northbound traffic.  Not exactly sure if any more will open before the final project completion in early December.

The Lincoln will be six lanes northbound. The shift to the Kennedy for southbound traffic allows the removal of barrier walls on the Kennedy, and any re-paving/striping that needs to take place.
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JMoses24

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2016, 07:41:17 PM »

Sounds good HB, but I like the forward thinking that had the two bridges built.
When Cincy starts rehabbing the Brent Spence bridge, traffic coming from Indy and north will be using the new bridges. Due to the vastness of the bridges in Louisville, there should be little to no delays. No matter how long the Brent Spence project takes, the downtown and East End can handle it easy. Also, I foresee massive backups on I-275 crossing the Ohio River into Kentucky. Volume will be bad, a breakdown on the bridge will be worse.

You're absolutely correct about 275, and I'll use an example from last year to enhance this.

Last year, Kentucky re-decked the entire I-275 Carroll Cropper Bridge, one side at a time. To accomplish this, they merged two lanes into one and had both directions of traffic use whatever half of the bridge was not being worked on at the time and no oversize loads were permitted on the bridge whatsoever. Well...if there was an accident on the bridge or a wide load somehow got through onto the bridge and got stuck, you were screwed. I remember at least two wide loads that got to the bridge and got stuck snarling traffic for hours.
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seicer

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #90 on: October 13, 2016, 08:17:15 PM »

The problem with the tolls on the east end bridge is that they are essentially competing with a route which is equal distant AND FREE.
To Lexington from Indy. The mileage for I 74, I 275, I 75 is about equal distant to the I-65, I-64 route. And if you are in a car, Adding Indiana route 1 puts the first one way ahead.
Adding I 265 in between 65 and 64 wont drop the mileage age due to the east side of Louisville routing.

The downtown bridge, will be more problematic. They are playing a bit of funny business. To get on the 31 bridge from the Indiana side  I-65 requires you exit onto the local lanes way back in Clarksville. All it would take is a little creative removing the 31 shields from the signs to "entrap" folks to getting onto the toll bridge.

GPS's route people coming from Indy to Lexington through Louisville, and that is the way they will take. Sad, but true. With that being said, when the Brent Spence is re built, it too will be tolled. This is just the beginning.
If that's the case then I will just use the I-275 bridge instead. The Brent Spence is my current alternative to avoid the I-65 toll bridge.

You will drive 75 or so miles out of your way to save a few dollars in tolls - wasting many dollars and miles?
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Moose

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #91 on: October 14, 2016, 08:19:58 AM »



You will drive 75 or so miles out of your way to save a few dollars in tolls - wasting many dollars and miles?

I don't know where your getting the 75 miles from

Google shows 195 miles Indianapolis to Lexington using the I-75 Cincinnati bridge
Google shows 193 miles Indianapolis to Lexington using the I-275 West loop bridge (186 miles if you use Indiana Highway 1 to connect I-74 and I -275 and avoid Ohio)
Google shows 191 miles Indianapolis to Lexington using the I-65 Louisville Bridge

It's THAT close.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 08:28:06 AM by Moose »
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seicer

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #92 on: October 14, 2016, 08:28:21 AM »

Never mind - I thought you were coming from a different location. That makes more sense.
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hbelkins

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #93 on: October 14, 2016, 10:07:31 PM »


Last year, Kentucky re-decked the entire I-275 Carroll Cropper Bridge, one side at a time. To accomplish this, they merged two lanes into one and had both directions of traffic use whatever half of the bridge was not being worked on at the time and no oversize loads were permitted on the bridge whatsoever. Well...if there was an accident on the bridge or a wide load somehow got through onto the bridge and got stuck, you were screwed. I remember at least two wide loads that got to the bridge and got stuck snarling traffic for hours.

Yes, to the great consternation of the District 6 folks, who  wondered why the drivers of wide loads did not read the signs and did not follow their permitted routes (when we have a width restriction, we notify the overwidth/overdimension folks, who are supposed to make proper routes clear when they issue permits for such loads.)
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cabiness42

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #94 on: November 11, 2016, 02:01:12 PM »

Announcement was made today that by the end of next week, all lanes and exit ramps will be open on both bridges and approaches.  The biggest remaining piece, the right lane on the Kennedy (southbound) Bridge and the exit ramp to I-64 West, will open by 5am Monday 11/14. 

Also southbound, the full set of ramps for Exit 1 are now open, meaning that traffic heading to 10th St, Court Ave or the Clark Bridge now pass over Stansifer Ave instead of having to pass through the intersection and stoplight.  The last 2 miles approaching the bridge had been squeezed down to 2 lanes, is now up to 3, with the final lane to open soon.

Northbound, a second express lane, which will bypass the exits for Muhammad Ali Blvd, 64 and 71, will also be opening soon.
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paulthemapguy

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #95 on: November 11, 2016, 02:14:22 PM »

You guys are missing the point.  His point is the the jurisdictions responsible didn't have the cash to pay for the highway upgrades in the same way you guys paid for your cars with cash.  The only way this project got funded without waiting several more years (or more likely decades in the case of the East End) was to let bonds that will be paid back via the toll revenue.

Looking back on it, a car was probably a bad example for something that's never paid for with cash.  Should have gone for a house, a college education, or something larger.

I drove through here southbound a couple weeks ago.  I'm liking the use of Interstate emblems on the pavement to show you which lane you want. 


IMG_6629 by Paul Drives, on Flickr

And here's the southbound toll collection structure as it stood:


IMG_6625 by Paul Drives, on Flickr
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compdude787

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2016, 06:17:53 PM »

Shoot, in that first picture, it's really hard to read the signs because the crossbeams for the bridge get in the way. Did anyone stop to consider "Hmm, maybe that's a bad idea"?

cabiness42

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #97 on: November 12, 2016, 07:43:59 AM »

Shoot, in that first picture, it's really hard to read the signs because the crossbeams for the bridge get in the way. Did anyone stop to consider "Hmm, maybe that's a bad idea"?

There really isn't anywhere else to put the signs, and thus, the pavement markings to help out. 
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JMoses24

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #98 on: November 12, 2016, 06:30:11 PM »

Shoot, in that first picture, it's really hard to read the signs because the crossbeams for the bridge get in the way. Did anyone stop to consider "Hmm, maybe that's a bad idea"?

There really isn't anywhere else to put the signs, and thus, the pavement markings to help out. 

The same thing is done in downtown Cincinnati, with pavement markings for both directions of Fort Washington Way downtown, as well as on the northbound Brent Spence Bridge into Ohio.
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Revive 755

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Re: I-65 downtown crossing
« Reply #99 on: November 13, 2016, 06:01:27 PM »

Shoot, in that first picture, it's really hard to read the signs because the crossbeams for the bridge get in the way. Did anyone stop to consider "Hmm, maybe that's a bad idea"?

There really isn't anywhere else to put the signs, and thus, the pavement markings to help out.

They could have tried going for a somewhat nonstandard sign design and/or dropped the control cities to try and compensate for the lack of space.   Perhaps similar to this signage from Pittsburgh but with arrows.

Side rant:  Streetview does not seem to work well on double deck highways.
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