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Author Topic: Detroit Bridge Wars  (Read 92164 times)

roadman65

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #250 on: July 08, 2018, 05:53:08 PM »

So finally ON Highway 401 will have a connection to both I-75 and I-96 after years of an extended Breezewood through the streets of Windsor.

Bet that owner of the Ambassador Bridge is as pissed as some users on here when it comes to highway suggestions.
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Flint1979

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #251 on: July 08, 2018, 11:56:33 PM »

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.
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cbeach40

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #252 on: July 09, 2018, 11:05:51 AM »

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.

Plus the new facility will still be far from a freeway connection. The facility will not be geometrically designed even close to freeway standard, plus still have at grade intersections, high pedestrian activity, and of course there will be multiple stops required due to the toll and customs inspection. Breezewood as it sits now will be lightning fast compared to this.
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Flint1979

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #253 on: July 09, 2018, 01:08:04 PM »

And as far as the owner of the Ambassador Bridge goes, f*** Matty Moroun.
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silverback1065

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #254 on: July 09, 2018, 03:41:38 PM »

so to be clear, this bridge is a go?  no more chances of it getting stopped?
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #255 on: July 09, 2018, 04:02:08 PM »

so to be clear, this bridge is a go?  no more chances of it getting stopped?

I do not think that Maroun's pleas on Fox and Friends are going anywhere with the administration. 

Maroun has a lot of enemies around Michigan, and were the federal government intervene on Maroun's behalf, then I suspect they would remember that on Election Day.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #256 on: July 09, 2018, 05:25:22 PM »

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.

Plus the new facility will still be far from a freeway connection. The facility will not be geometrically designed even close to freeway standard, plus still have at grade intersections, high pedestrian activity, and of course there will be multiple stops required due to the toll and customs inspection. Breezewood as it sits now will be lightning fast compared to this.
blue water bridge is freeway to freeway other then customs it's kind of like the old skyway mcdonalds
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GaryV

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #257 on: July 09, 2018, 06:36:56 PM »

so to be clear, this bridge is a go?  no more chances of it getting stopped?

That's what they announced, that there are no more legal challenges.  We'll see what Matty M has to say about it, though.

Speaking of, he's more well-respected these days for selling off that non-maintained wreck of the Michigan Central depot to Ford for redevelopment.  Yeah, right, great guy, doesn't keep up his property and then gets kudos when he sells it.  And probably at top dollar, too.
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vdeane

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #258 on: July 09, 2018, 08:56:46 PM »

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.
It may not be a gap in an interstate highway (but then, technically the non-freeway connections between other interstates and the PTC aren't either, and we still call them breezewoods), but it is definitely a gap in the North American freeway network.

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.

Plus the new facility will still be far from a freeway connection. The facility will not be geometrically designed even close to freeway standard, plus still have at grade intersections, high pedestrian activity, and of course there will be multiple stops required due to the toll and customs inspection. Breezewood as it sits now will be lightning fast compared to this.
Judging by the linked map, it looks pretty much like a freeway facility outside of the customs/toll plazas to me.  Considering that I regularly travel interstates that require stopping at physical toll booths, it seems acceptable to count such as a freeway connection.
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Flint1979

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #259 on: July 09, 2018, 11:59:39 PM »

It angered me how long he let Michigan Central Station sit and rot before doing anything to it. I was extremely happy when I found out he sold it to Ford. It's ridiculous how long he let that building sit and rot for though, 22 years of owning it and doing next to nothing with it the entire time he owned it. And I'm not a big fan of his over his whining about a new bridge being built. That's just tough shit Matty, competition exists and this isn't Burger King you don't get things your way.
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roadman65

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #260 on: July 12, 2018, 07:49:26 PM »

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.
No but having the main Ontario freeway stop short of the US Border and not even built close to a border crossing still is a big distance to travel to connect to those freeways on the US side that are at least a few blocks away for the tunnel and right up to I-75 for the bridge.
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Sheryl Crowe

Flint1979

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #261 on: July 12, 2018, 11:49:20 PM »

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.
No but having the main Ontario freeway stop short of the US Border and not even built close to a border crossing still is a big distance to travel to connect to those freeways on the US side that are at least a few blocks away for the tunnel and right up to I-75 for the bridge.
Well the Ambassador Bridge is also almost 90 years old and Windsor is pretty developed in that area. 401 wasn't proposed until 1938 and I'm pretty sure development is what caused them to stop short of the bridge. I don't think 401 was open in the Windsor area until the 1950's.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people might already do this but I-69 north of Marshall actually serves as a very good bypass of Detroit. If you are coming from Chicago and your destination is Toronto it would be a lot easier to take I-69 to Port Huron vs. taking I-94 to Port Huron since on I-94 you'd have to travel through Metro Detroit and on I-69 you'd only have to travel through the Lansing and Flint areas.
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sparker

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #262 on: July 13, 2018, 02:04:44 AM »

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.
No but having the main Ontario freeway stop short of the US Border and not even built close to a border crossing still is a big distance to travel to connect to those freeways on the US side that are at least a few blocks away for the tunnel and right up to I-75 for the bridge.
Well the Ambassador Bridge is also almost 90 years old and Windsor is pretty developed in that area. 401 wasn't proposed until 1938 and I'm pretty sure development is what caused them to stop short of the bridge. I don't think 401 was open in the Windsor area until the 1950's.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people might already do this but I-69 north of Marshall actually serves as a very good bypass of Detroit. If you are coming from Chicago and your destination is Toronto it would be a lot easier to take I-69 to Port Huron vs. taking I-94 to Port Huron since on I-94 you'd have to travel through Metro Detroit and on I-69 you'd only have to travel through the Lansing and Flint areas.

Also, using the Blue Water/I-69/94 bridge between Port Huron and Sarnia sets you down on ON 402, which heads east and merges with 401 near London without any surface-street "gaps"; it's a continuous freeway all the way to greater Toronto and points beyond.
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Flint1979

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #263 on: July 13, 2018, 10:25:38 AM »

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.
No but having the main Ontario freeway stop short of the US Border and not even built close to a border crossing still is a big distance to travel to connect to those freeways on the US side that are at least a few blocks away for the tunnel and right up to I-75 for the bridge.
Well the Ambassador Bridge is also almost 90 years old and Windsor is pretty developed in that area. 401 wasn't proposed until 1938 and I'm pretty sure development is what caused them to stop short of the bridge. I don't think 401 was open in the Windsor area until the 1950's.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people might already do this but I-69 north of Marshall actually serves as a very good bypass of Detroit. If you are coming from Chicago and your destination is Toronto it would be a lot easier to take I-69 to Port Huron vs. taking I-94 to Port Huron since on I-94 you'd have to travel through Metro Detroit and on I-69 you'd only have to travel through the Lansing and Flint areas.

Also, using the Blue Water/I-69/94 bridge between Port Huron and Sarnia sets you down on ON 402, which heads east and merges with 401 near London without any surface-street "gaps"; it's a continuous freeway all the way to greater Toronto and points beyond.
Actually what's funny is that I just went to Google Maps and put in Chicago to Toronto and they suggest the route that I mentioned or I-94 through Detroit to Port Huron. They are both 520 miles but via I-69 it's 8 hours, 32 minutes and via I-94 it's 8 hours, 38 minutes so only a 6 minute difference but this is at 10:19 on a Friday morning I bet at 4:19 on a Friday afternoon it'd take longer than 8 hours, 38 minutes. I'm surprised they don't suggest taking the Ambassador Bridge across and connecting to 401 after going through Windsor.

Now the other way around Toronto to Chicago they suggest the same routing but it's 519 miles and 7 hours, 56 minutes and then they have another suggestion and that's taking 401 to Windsor, crossing the Ambassador Bridge and then following I-96 to M-14 and connecting with I-94 on the westside of Ann Arbor, that one is 512 miles and 8 hours, 2 minutes. I still think your better off taking the route I originally mentioned and avoiding Detroit if you can since if you can avoid a metro area of 4 million people vs. going through two metro areas with about 400,000 people each I'll take the latter.

I'm not sure if a lot of people realize that taking M-14 to I-96 is a better route than taking I-94 between Ann Arbor and Detroit. It cuts off almost 2 miles and is about 7-10 minutes quicker. Plus you don't have to deal with the Metro Airport traffic either.
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cbeach40

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #264 on: July 19, 2018, 09:51:05 AM »

It may not be a gap in an interstate highway (but then, technically the non-freeway connections between other interstates and the PTC aren't either, and we still call them breezewoods), but it is definitely a gap in the North American freeway network.

And will continue to be in perpetuity.

I wouldn't really call it a Breezewood like Breezewood, Pennsylvania. There is no requirement for a continuous freeway on the Windsor side and the Ambassador Bridge isn't a part of any Interstate highway.

Plus the new facility will still be far from a freeway connection. The facility will not be geometrically designed even close to freeway standard, plus still have at grade intersections, high pedestrian activity, and of course there will be multiple stops required due to the toll and customs inspection. Breezewood as it sits now will be lightning fast compared to this.
Judging by the linked map, it looks pretty much like a freeway facility outside of the customs/toll plazas to me.  Considering that I regularly travel interstates that require stopping at physical toll booths, it seems acceptable to count such as a freeway connection.
[/quote]

The approximately 3 km between the two plazas will be an undivided facility with a 60 km/h design speed geometry. Not even getting to the plaza designs themselves. By any definition rooted in engineering, enforcement, construction, or reality it is not even close to a freeway.
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vdeane

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #265 on: July 19, 2018, 03:17:41 PM »

Lewiston-Queenston is undivided with a 15 mph speed limit.  Nobody calls it a Breezewood.  The American Span of the Thousand Islands Bridge is undivided, 40 mph, and two lanes.  Nobody calls it a Breezewood either.  Many toll roads go undivided at every single barrier.  We don't call them Breezwoods either.  It's close enough, I'd say.  Just because it doesn't cross every t and dot every i that an engineer (I'm a planner) would look at doesn't mean we should continue to call it a gap.  There's a world of difference between your standard bridge/toll/customs plaza issues and having to take a surface street or having at-grades.

This might just be a difference in transportation philosophy between Americans and Canadians.  My boss told me a story once about how NYSDOT and CBSA once got into the exact same argument over the I-87/A-15 border crossing.  In their mind, it was OK for trucks coming from the US export control facility to have to cross several lanes of traffic to get to the Canadian truck inspection lanes because of the whole "border crossings aren't freeways and require stopping anyways" thing.  As far as we're concerned, it's an interstate all the way to the border, and it's basically a freeway that happens to have booths that people are required to stop at.  It certainly seems like Canada is far more willing to compromise freeway standards around border areas than the US is, and much quicker to call something "not a freeway".  The fact that the US has significantly more ancient freeways that don't meet anything even remotely resembling current standards probably exacerbates the issue.  It's easier to compromise on what you call a freeway when you have to deal with thing like the BQE, I-490 through downtown Rochester, and the Surekill being part of the interstate system.
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cbeach40

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #266 on: September 28, 2018, 02:37:19 PM »

Contract has been finalized
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/gordie-howe-bridge-construction-1.4842489

The new bridge will provide a six lanes of interrupted arterial connection between the Hwy 401 and I-75 freeways, as well as multi-use trails. It will cost $5.7B for the design/build/finance/operate/maintain contract, of which $3.8B is estimated to cover construction. Construction is to being next month.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 02:50:33 PM by cbeach40 »
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Flint1979

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #267 on: September 28, 2018, 08:24:46 PM »

Contract has been finalized
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/gordie-howe-bridge-construction-1.4842489

The new bridge will provide a six lanes of interrupted arterial connection between the Hwy 401 and I-75 freeways, as well as multi-use trails. It will cost $5.7B for the design/build/finance/operate/maintain contract, of which $3.8B is estimated to cover construction. Construction is to being next month.
R.I.P. Delray.
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skluth

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #268 on: September 30, 2018, 03:30:09 PM »

Contract has been finalized
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/gordie-howe-bridge-construction-1.4842489

The new bridge will provide a six lanes of interrupted arterial connection between the Hwy 401 and I-75 freeways, as well as multi-use trails. It will cost $5.7B for the design/build/finance/operate/maintain contract, of which $3.8B is estimated to cover construction. Construction is to being next month.

And there was much rejoicing
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GaryV

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Re: Detroit Bridge Wars
« Reply #269 on: September 30, 2018, 04:25:58 PM »

And there was much rejoicing
Wrong thread.     :-D
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