NYC Roads

[Alps]

^ The RIS GIS Viewer has a maintenance jurisdiction layer.
https://gis.dot.ny.gov/html5viewer/?viewer=risviewer

Which looks to be full of shit, given that it shows the FDR and Henry Hudson as city maintained but the ramps as state maintained.

Unless the contract where the State gave maintenance jurisdiction to the City only defines the freeway as the mainline. Which is awkward but not impossible. But I'd love another source to confirm.

[ixnay]

Speaking of tolls, are the toll booths approaching the GW being demolished?

yes.

The Fort Lee Police Department used to have a camera on YT trained on the GWB toll plaza.  Apparently they took it off YT (budget cuts?) right after the conversion to all-AET but before the demolition of the toll booths commenced.  Our loss.  Great view head on view of the bridge itself too.

[SignBridge]

Speaking of tolls, are the toll booths approaching the GW being demolished?

yes.

The Fort Lee Police Department used to have a camera on YT trained on the GWB toll plaza.  Apparently they took it off YT (budget cuts?) right after the conversion to all-AET but before the demolition of the toll booths commenced.  Our loss.  Great view head on view of the bridge itself too.

"YT" ??

[Mergingtraffic]

This is why the BQE is doomed. 
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/07/31/dot-back-to-drawing-board-bqe-atlantic-av

Trucks, which carry everything you own, they want them to vanish

[Rothman]

^ The RIS GIS Viewer has a maintenance jurisdiction layer.
https://gis.dot.ny.gov/html5viewer/?viewer=risviewer

Which looks to be full of shit, given that it shows the FDR and Henry Hudson as city maintained but the ramps as state maintained.

Unless the contract where the State gave maintenance jurisdiction to the City only defines the freeway as the mainline. Which is awkward but not impossible. But I'd love another source to confirm.

Heh.  Wonder what else vdeane can come up with that would conflict with RIS.

[cl94]

This is why the BQE is doomed. 
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/07/31/dot-back-to-drawing-board-bqe-atlantic-av

Trucks, which carry everything you own, they want them to vanish

Consider the source.

I will note that the freeways and major arterials around NYC have some of the highest commercial vehicle % you'll see in the United States, partially because that's the only way to get goods in/out of the city. We gentrified away the ports, so that environmentally-friendly option is no longer one. It's not like NYC ever had great freight rail service, but it wasn't necessary if you could just barge everything in. Moving all of the docks to NJ did more to increase truck traffic in NYC than anything else, but people don't like the solution to that.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[roadman65]

The problem with rail service to Brooklyn is all must access it from the Hell Gate Bridge as the Amtrak Tunnels can’t tolerate diesel power due to confinement and also as we know the current North River Tunnels couldn’t handle more than the commuter and long distance passenger trains it has now.

Even if Electric Power Freight Locomotives were put into service again, the current two tunnel NE Corridor would not handle it due to over capacity. In addition no cross Hudson crossings are available for rail south of Selkirk near Albany. That’s why Lehigh Valley used barges from Jersey City to Brooklyn in its hey days.

Trucking is the only commerce to Brooklyn and is no other means available unless the ole barge ferries return and a new dock be erected somewhere else in Brooklyn.

[ixnay]

The Fort Lee Police Department used to have a camera on YT trained on the GWB toll plaza.  Apparently they took it off YT (budget cuts?) right after the conversion to all-AET but before the demolition of the toll booths commenced.  Our loss.  Great view head on view of the bridge itself too.

"YT" ??

YouTube.

[RobbieL2415]

The problem with rail service to Brooklyn is all must access it from the Hell Gate Bridge as the Amtrak Tunnels can't tolerate diesel power due to confinement and also as we know the current North River Tunnels couldn't handle more than the commuter and long distance passenger trains it has now.

Even if Electric Power Freight Locomotives were put into service again, the current two tunnel NE Corridor would not handle it due to over capacity. In addition no cross Hudson crossings are available for rail south of Selkirk near Albany. That's why Lehigh Valley used barges from Jersey City to Brooklyn in its hey days.

Trucking is the only commerce to Brooklyn and is no other means available unless the ole barge ferries return and a new dock be erected somewhere else in Brooklyn.

Old barge ferries? There is still carfloat service available in Brooklyn, at the 65th Street Yard.

[lepidopteran]

The problem with rail service to Brooklyn is all must access it from the Hell Gate Bridge as the Amtrak Tunnels can't tolerate diesel power due to confinement and also as we know the current North River Tunnels couldn't handle more than the commuter and long distance passenger trains it has now.

Old barge ferries? There is still carfloat service available in Brooklyn, at the 65th Street Yard.

A dedicated freight-rail tunnel under NY Harbor has been planned for decades.

In order to be useful at getting trucks off the highway, though, an intermodal/transload facility would need to be built somewhere in Queens, since freight rail access to Long Island would be limited due to the LIRR third rail.

Such a tunnel could also help get freight to New England, but that too would require use of the Hell Gate Bridge.

[1995hoo]

I'm puzzled why there seem to be cameras over both halves of the divided roadway. I assumed drivers would only have to pay the toll when entering the congestion zone. Will they actually be tolled when leaving the area too?

The idea is you get assessed the congestion fee for every calendar day you operate a vehicle in the designated area. The gantry on the outbound side is to catch anyone who stayed parked in the CBD overnight (or leaves after midnight), because they will need to pay the fee both for the day they entered and the day they exited. If you enter and exit on the same day you will not be charged twice. Indeed, you can enter and exit as many times as you want in one day and only get charged once - so get your money's worth

So how does it work if, hypothetically, you drive in on Monday, park at the office garage, don't move your car for several days, and then drive out on, say, Thursday? Do you get charged for just those two days (Monday and Thursday)?

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/ikQ2PfBA11AutQraA
I see the Lincoln Tunnel expressway is now a tunnel crossing over the Amtrak NE Corridor. I'm not surprised to see the air rights given to a developer. Though makes me wonder why the long defunct Pennsylvania Railroad didn't give up that space along that particular block west of 9th Avenue a long time ago.

[Duke87]

So how does it work if, hypothetically, you drive in on Monday, park at the office garage, don't move your car for several days, and then drive out on, say, Thursday? Do you get charged for just those two days (Monday and Thursday)?

Unless NY is pulling some unusual shit (never put anything past them when it comes to cash grabs), yes, you'd only get charged for the two days you actually drove the car.

This is why the BQE is doomed. 
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/07/31/dot-back-to-drawing-board-bqe-atlantic-av

Trucks, which carry everything you own, they want them to vanish

Consider the source.

I will note that the freeways and major arterials around NYC have some of the highest commercial vehicle % you'll see in the United States, partially because that's the only way to get goods in/out of the city. We gentrified away the ports, so that environmentally-friendly option is no longer one. It's not like NYC ever had great freight rail service, but it wasn't necessary if you could just barge everything in. Moving all of the docks to NJ did more to increase truck traffic in NYC than anything else, but people don't like the solution to that.

The source of course has an axe to grind, but it's not as though they're making up concerns people don't actually have, and with NY being how it is... only takes a few loud people having a concern to completely derail a project.

Ultimately this is just more of the same of what we've been seeing with the triple cantilever itself: the state knows it needs to do something, but its own regulatory framework effectively blocks it from doing anything since with how densely populated the area is any reconstruction project of any kind will be massively disruptive no matter what, and massive disruptions are not allowed in New York (unless in response to an emergency).

And, well, there are some major practical problems in the area with no good solutions. Atlantic Ave is a major thoroughfare east of Flatbush Ave. West of Flatbush Ave it's an older narrower street through a very dense otherwise not car-oriented area that's shoehorned into being a major vehicular thoroughfare because it's where the BQE interchange is. It's understandable you've got some people calling for the interchange to simply be eliminated, and this would substantially improve the quality of life for local residents who rarely if ever drive anywhere and thus don't really directly benefit from the interchange's presence.

Buuut right on the other side of the highway are port facilities which trucks use that interchange to access. So you can't just get rid of it. And you start to see then where the proposals that the Brooklyn Heights section of the BQE should be restricted to commercial traffic only come from, though it should be noted this is not legally possible under current NY State Law.

And of course none of this fixes that all the people who live there even if they don't drive still need everything they order online delivered and still need their garbage hauled away.

Ultimately, New York City is just too dense to properly function. It'd be a nicer place with a couple million fewer people. Where's Thanos when you need him?

[Rothman]

I don't see how the Triple Cantilever project is prevented by NY's own "regulatory framework."  As noted, most challenges are just a result of being in the middle of the largest urban area in the country...

[The Ghostbuster]

It's not just regulatory framework at stake for the BQE. The NIMBY's are likely just as powerful, and could gum up the works until the triple cantilever segment has a West Side Highway-like collapse. From what I have read, there probably isn't anything that can be proposed that the neighbors will accept; except for a total demolition of the triple cantilever segment (save the Brooklyn Heights Promenade itself).

[Duke87]

I don't see how the Triple Cantilever project is prevented by NY's own "regulatory framework."

You say that and yet, the state tried several alternatives for a rebuild but found none that were deemed tolerable to the adjacent community. A functional state would have picked the least evil of the (all disruptive in some way) options considered and it'd currently be under construction. New York threw their hands in the air and restriped the road to four lanes from six in a pathetic attempt to try to stretch the existing structure's life out. At some point, we'll be down the road from where the can was kicked and the state will have to start talking about what to do again, but they're only going to run into the same problem that you physically cannot rebuild the road without causing massive disruption to the neighborhood in some way.

[SignBridge]

If the City and State even tried to implement the most viable alternative, they would get bogged down in the Environmental Review process. And the Brooklyn Heights community could probably bring political pressure to bear and get a court injunction to stop the plan or stop construction.

Barring an unplanned  serious event such as a West Side Hwy. type collapse, you probably won't see any construction here for ten years. 

[Rothman]

If the City and State even tried to implement the most viable alternative, they would get bogged down in the Environmental Review process. And the Brooklyn Heights community could probably bring political pressure to bear and get a court injunction to stop the plan or stop construction.

Barring an unplanned  serious event such as a West Side Hwy. type collapse, you probably won't see any construction here for ten years.

Right, but that's the federal process, not state.

[Rothman]

I don't see how the Triple Cantilever project is prevented by NY's own "regulatory framework."

You say that and yet, the state tried several alternatives for a rebuild but found none that were deemed tolerable to the adjacent community. A functional state would have picked the least evil of the (all disruptive in some way) options considered and it'd currently be under construction. New York threw their hands in the air and restriped the road to four lanes from six in a pathetic attempt to try to stretch the existing structure's life out. At some point, we'll be down the road from where the can was kicked and the state will have to start talking about what to do again, but they're only going to run into the same problem that you physically cannot rebuild the road without causing massive disruption to the neighborhood in some way.

But it's a NYCDOT administered project, not NYSDOT.

[ixnay]

Do tolls from the NYC MTA bridges and tunnels go into the MTA's general fund for stuff like transit and upkeep of existing free roads and bridges (not to mention labor and tools/equipment to that end), or are they dedicated sources of funding towards maintaining the toll crossings? 

I ask this because it was mentioned on the Delaware thread that tolls from I-95 and Delaware Route 1 go towards not only those roads but Delaware's free roads and bridges.

[Alps]

Do tolls from the NYC MTA bridges and tunnels go into the MTA's general fund for stuff like transit and upkeep of existing free roads and bridges (not to mention labor and tools/equipment to that end), or are they dedicated sources of funding towards maintaining the toll crossings? 

I ask this because it was mentioned on the Delaware thread that tolls from I-95 and Delaware Route 1 go towards not only those roads but Delaware's free roads and bridges.

The MTA's revenues go toward all MTA properties, not strictly roads and bridges, but does not fund anything outside that agency.

[bluecountry]

I am going to repeat again, the ramp from the HRD to the GWB/Trans-Manhattan EXWP NEEDS repaved immediately.
The condition is absolutely terrible right now, I cannot believe this is if not being done at least getting more press.

[The Ghostbuster]

I checked Google Maps Street View. Not only is the pavement deteriorated, so are the lane markings: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8429445,-73.9314731,3a,75y,2.65h,90t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s5OvUGrR1-uJJ1ZUa03r8VA!2e0!5s20230701T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D5OvUGrR1-uJJ1ZUa03r8VA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D2.0066538%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu. Unfortunately, the closest I've ever been to New York City is Niagara Falls, so I don't have an inside scoop on what roads will get repaved in NYC or when. Somehow, I have a feeling it won't be anytime soon.

[Plutonic Panda]

Trees over growing onto the highway, lane markings almost faded away, pavement in shitty condition. Absolutely fucking deplorable. These people aren't even trying. I hope it's being documented and god forbid when someone dies because of their neglect I hope they people responsible for these are held account and imprisoned.

[bluecountry]

I checked Google Maps Street View. Not only is the pavement deteriorated, so are the lane markings: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8429445,-73.9314731,3a,75y,2.65h,90t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s5OvUGrR1-uJJ1ZUa03r8VA!2e0!5s20230701T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D5OvUGrR1-uJJ1ZUa03r8VA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D2.0066538%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu. Unfortunately, the closest I've ever been to New York City is Niagara Falls, so I don't have an inside scoop on what roads will get repaved in NYC or when. Somehow, I have a feeling it won't be anytime soon.

It is horrendous, this is not a hard fix, nor that costly or complex vs other projects.
Why is there not more of an outcry from drivers, the media?