NYC Roads

[TheDon102]

Also this amny article brings up a pretty interesting point - https://www.amny.com/nyc-transit/nysdot-suspends-cross-bronx-expressway-repair-bridges/


"This is a win for the community because community voices were heard," Sanchez said. "It is a loss anytime that the government is not working with the community to address infrastructure challenges."

But he also worried about the aging bridges' safety, particularly after incidents last week in which large chunks of concrete broke off the Trans-Manhattan Expressway, damaging cars and sending one driver to the hospital.

In cases where repairs are considered an "emergency," the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) grants exemptions called "categorical exclusions," some of which do not require the same rigorous environmental studies and public transparency. It's a fear that Sanchez and fellow advocates have been hesitant to name.

" We are hoping is not a calculated decision on behalf of the state," Sanchez said.

[Rothman]

So, the whole thing with the BQE where there is no way to do a necessary rebuild that placates all NIMBYs so we're just going to not do the necessary rebuild until the roadway structure physically fails now applies to the Cross Bronx too:

https://bronx.news12.com/cross-bronx-expressway-bridge-project-suspended

The NIMBYs keep equating adding shoulders to a "widening" that would be the same as adding travel lanes.  They keep claiming it would "increase traffic" (by having the exact same lane count?) and "increase emissions" (if anything, by not blocking travel lanes for every crash or disabled vehicle, it would decrease emissions through less delay!).  It's as if they don't know that emissions are maximized in gridlocked traffic.

(personal opinion)

Any chance that the DOT comes back and replaces the roadway with no shoulders? What does it mean when a project is suspended?

This is a vital corridor, you can't just remove it. I hope NYSCDOT recognizes that fact.

FTFY. ;D

The Cross-Bronx is NYSDOT, so NYCDOT's responsibilities are similar to a maintenance residency in the other regions.  Although it will be interesting to see if this ends up like the BQE; after NYSDOT faced similar opposition to a project, they gave it to the city to figure out.

(personal opinion)

The Triple Cantilever's been in the City's court for a very long time.

Eh, I'll stop there.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[vdeane]

The Triple Cantilever's been in the City's court for a very long time.

Eh, I'll stop there.

(personal opinion emphasized)

IIRC around 20 years now.

[Duke87]

Any chance that the DOT comes back and replaces the roadway with no shoulders?

Problem is when you replace a viaduct structure on the interstate system the new structure is expected to meet current interstate design standards. This is essentially what doomed I-81 in Syracuse - they're not allowed build a new viaduct that doesn't have shoulders, and the footprint expansion necessary to accommodate shoulders was politically impossible to move forward with.

Presumably the same standard would apply to the Cross Bronx, although because it is currently six lanes with no shoulders the option theoretically exists of a new viaduct that is four lanes with shoulders in order to keep the footprint from expanding too much.

The NIMBYs keep equating adding shoulders to a "widening" that would be the same as adding travel lanes.  They keep claiming it would "increase traffic" (by having the exact same lane count?) and "increase emissions" (if anything, by not blocking travel lanes for every crash or disabled vehicle, it would decrease emissions through less delay!).  It's as if they don't know that emissions are maximized in gridlocked traffic.

Yeah so the panic here seems to be over the fact that adding shoulders moves the edge of the roadway closer to the windows of people's homes and thus, it is assumed, increases the air pollution that blows in those windows. Because the shoulder isn't normally a travel lane it doesn't actually work like this but you can see where people who lack nuanced understanding might be skeptical, especially because people in poor communities who have had lots of pollution already foisted upon them by past policy decisions are understandably not too keen on trusting the government when it says "don't worry we're not making your pollution worse THIS time". Indeed, this is also the area where there is a lot of complaint currently that congestion pricing has made local pollution worse by diverting traffic that previously was cutting through Manhattan into their neighborhoods.

At the same time, all this makes the people in these communities convenient allies for the numtot crowd who instinctively opposes anything and everything that might make motor vehicle travel even slightly more convenient. To this point, it is a common argument in such crowd that full interstate standard shoulders on bridge structures are a waste of money and, in crowded urban areas, a waste of precious space, and that it should be acceptable to omit them in order to avoid expanding freeway footprints. Of course, they need to take that up with the feds, it's not something NY state has a choice about.

[D-Dey65]

What a fucking joke.

Made by a bunch of fucking morons!

Streetsblog can kiss my ass at this point!

I see they're having issues on I-95 inside the Trans Manhattan Tunnel. A man had his car totaled by falling debris from the ceiling.

Again a second motorist hot hit from more overhead debris a week later.

The PANYNJ is responsible as they maintain I-95 in Manhattan.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/cross-bronx-expressway-falling-debris/6501426/

I warned them about this back in the 1990's.

[D-Dey65]

Is it just me or is the road situation in New York City permanently hopeless?

Only because the NIMBYists have made it this way.

Not that they haven't screwed up any potential mass transit projects either.

[vdeane]

Yeah so the panic here seems to be over the fact that adding shoulders moves the edge of the roadway closer to the windows of people's homes and thus, it is assumed, increases the air pollution that blows in those windows. Because the shoulder isn't normally a travel lane it doesn't actually work like this but you can see where people who lack nuanced understanding might be skeptical, especially because people in poor communities who have had lots of pollution already foisted upon them by past policy decisions are understandably not too keen on trusting the government when it says "don't worry we're not making your pollution worse THIS time". Indeed, this is also the area where there is a lot of complaint currently that congestion pricing has made local pollution worse by diverting traffic that previously was cutting through Manhattan into their neighborhoods.

At the same time, all this makes the people in these communities convenient allies for the numtot crowd who instinctively opposes anything and everything that might make motor vehicle travel even slightly more convenient. To this point, it is a common argument in such crowd that full interstate standard shoulders on bridge structures are a waste of money and, in crowded urban areas, a waste of precious space, and that it should be acceptable to omit them in order to avoid expanding freeway footprints. Of course, they need to take that up with the feds, it's not something NY state has a choice about.

And I'm guessing that all of this is not helped by the fact that something got dumped into the Bronx River the last time there was a major project in the area.  Or that the original proposal to build the diversion roadway and then keep it as local car capacity polarized the state and community against each other from the start.  I can't help but wonder if NYSDOT is hoping they can come back in a couple decades after memories of both have faded a bit.

(personal opinion)

[RobbieL2415]

Things will have to give.

Either local advocates will moderate their position or the bridges will become so derelict that the engineering division will order them closed.

[The Ghostbuster]

I strongly suspect that it will be the latter.

[SignBridge]

Can you just imagine the resulting chaos if the Cross Bronx Expwy had to be closed? Ditto for the Brooklyn-Queens Expwy. That will then result in more traffic and pollution than these community residents ever imagined.

Then these neighborhoods will have shot themselves in the foot by opposing the original highway replacement plans.......

[thenetwork]

The Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens NIMBYs will all fight any fixes and proposals tooth and nail...until a few of their own are part of any future carnage on their area freeways.

[Plutonic Panda]

They're blaming a cold winter smh

https://gothamist.com/news/officials-blame-cold-winter-for-metal-and-concrete-that-smashed-onto-manhattan-expressway

[TheDon102]

Yeah so the panic here seems to be over the fact that adding shoulders moves the edge of the roadway closer to the windows of people's homes and thus, it is assumed, increases the air pollution that blows in those windows. Because the shoulder isn't normally a travel lane it doesn't actually work like this but you can see where people who lack nuanced understanding might be skeptical, especially because people in poor communities who have had lots of pollution already foisted upon them by past policy decisions are understandably not too keen on trusting the government when it says "don't worry we're not making your pollution worse THIS time". Indeed, this is also the area where there is a lot of complaint currently that congestion pricing has made local pollution worse by diverting traffic that previously was cutting through Manhattan into their neighborhoods.

At the same time, all this makes the people in these communities convenient allies for the numtot crowd who instinctively opposes anything and everything that might make motor vehicle travel even slightly more convenient. To this point, it is a common argument in such crowd that full interstate standard shoulders on bridge structures are a waste of money and, in crowded urban areas, a waste of precious space, and that it should be acceptable to omit them in order to avoid expanding freeway footprints. Of course, they need to take that up with the feds, it's not something NY state has a choice about.

And I'm guessing that all of this is not helped by the fact that something got dumped into the Bronx River the last time there was a major project in the area.  Or that the original proposal to build the diversion roadway and then keep it as local car capacity polarized the state and community against each other from the start.  I can't help but wonder if NYSDOT is hoping they can come back in a couple decades after memories of both have faded a bit.

(personal opinion)

I don't think this stretch of the Cross Bronx has a "couple decades" left.

[TheDon102]

The Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens NIMBYs will all fight any fixes and proposals tooth and nail...until a few of their own are part of any future carnage on their area freeways.

I will say, at least in Queens, they are widening the Van Wyck to 4 lanes in each direction. And they recently fixed the Bruckner/Sheridan bottleneck in The Bronx by widening the Bruckner Mainline to 3 lanes in each direction. I'm shocked that both actually happened. Considering we cant even fix the BQE and Cross Bronx.

[kphoger]

What gets me is that no inspection of the ceiling was done to notice any of this.

Shouldn't they be monitoring all of these bridges and underpasses?

See below.

They're blaming a cold winter smh

https://gothamist.com/news/officials-blame-cold-winter-for-metal-and-concrete-that-smashed-onto-manhattan-expressway

Port Authority Executive Director Kathryn Garcia said ... the area was inspected last year, but investigators "did not identify an immediate health and safety problem."

[SignBridge]

The Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens NIMBYs will all fight any fixes and proposals tooth and nail...until a few of their own are part of any future carnage on their area freeways.

I will say, at least in Queens, they are widening the Van Wyck to 4 lanes in each direction. And they recently fixed the Bruckner/Sheridan bottleneck in The Bronx by widening the Bruckner Mainline to 3 lanes in each direction. I'm shocked that both actually happened. Considering we cant even fix the BQE and Cross Bronx.

I think the reason the Van Wyck Expwy could be widened is because it's staying within the dimensions of the original cut. Embankments are apparently being eliminated and retaining walls built for the road expansion. So being below grade it's not immediately obvious to the adjacent community. So probably less opposition for that reason.

[Plutonic Panda]

The Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens NIMBYs will all fight any fixes and proposals tooth and nail...until a few of their own are part of any future carnage on their area freeways.

I will say, at least in Queens, they are widening the Van Wyck to 4 lanes in each direction. And they recently fixed the Bruckner/Sheridan bottleneck in The Bronx by widening the Bruckner Mainline to 3 lanes in each direction. I'm shocked that both actually happened. Considering we cant even fix the BQE and Cross Bronx.

I think the reason the Van Wyck Expwy could be widened is because it's staying within the dimensions of the original cut. Embankments are apparently being eliminated and retaining walls built for the road expansion. So being below grade it's not immediately obvious to the adjacent community. So probably less opposition for that reason.

That doesn't stop the hordes of anti car types bitching about other expansions that stay within their ROW simply because they don't want to see any freeways widened because induced demand.