Charlotte

[architect77]

Actually I thought I-40 near RDU and I-77 through Charlotte had the highest traffic counts. I-85 is very nice, but I've never seen the section between I-485 towards Gastonia regularly grind to a halt like US1 does all day, everyday.

This I-85 project will begin with an easy short section and the rest through Gastonia will take longer as 2 railroad overpasses have to be rebuilt and the railroads are super slow to work with.

Also I-85 is still only 4 lanes between Hillsborough and Efland for 8 miles which is a real bottleneck for the deluxe I-85. No one cares about the 4-lane section to the VA border which is 40 miles or so.

[wriddle082]

I think making the transitions from I-485 either direction (especially the inner loop) to I-85 south are the biggest bottleneck, as lots of commuters from Gaston County commute to/from warehouse and other light industrial jobs in the Steele Creek and Ayrsley areas (not to mention all of the trucks heading to/from those same warehouses).  I'm not sure if they've tried temporarily dropping the rightmost lane of I-85 south just before the I-485 traffic merges in so it can seamlessly flow on, but sometimes trucks have a difficult time going up the hill through the ramp merges.  Then a couple of miles later that fourth lane drops at the NC 273 Belmont exit, going up a hill, so slow trucks end up changing lanes and slowing up traffic more.

If they had gone ahead with the "Garden Parkway" project or something else that provides another Catawba River crossing between Wilkinson Blvd. and NC 49, it likely would have relieved the commuter traffic a good bit.  I don't believe that proposal is completely off the table, but for now it's on hold.

[ARMOURERERIC]

News report that the project to widen I-85 to 8 lanes from Exit 23 to 27 was awarded yesterday.  I watched the project delayed  a good 15 times at the NCDot contract letting page and at one point was going to go south to exit 17.  But the price of the larger project jumped a good 40% to past 1 bil.

[architect77]

News report that the project to widen I-85 to 8 lanes from Exit 23 to 27 was awarded yesterday.  I watched the project delayed  a good 15 times at the NCDot contract letting page and at one point was going to go south to exit 17.  But the price of the larger project jumped a good 40% to past 1 bil.

Lucky you are. US1 in Raleigh which is only 4 lanes has had it's widening delayed until after 2031, along with 9 other Triangle road projects now scheduled for 2031-2035.

[sprjus4]

News report that the project to widen I-85 to 8 lanes from Exit 23 to 27 was awarded yesterday.  I watched the project delayed  a good 15 times at the NCDot contract letting page and at one point was going to go south to exit 17.  But the price of the larger project jumped a good 40% to past 1 bil.

Lucky you are. US1 in Raleigh which is only 4 lanes has had it's widening delayed until after 2031, along with 9 other Triangle road projects now scheduled for 2031-2035.

US-1 being four or even six lanes isn't the biggest issue, the biggest issue is the lack of controlled access and the abundance of traffic signals. The project will convert several miles into a six lane controlled access freeway.

[architect77]

News report that the project to widen I-85 to 8 lanes from Exit 23 to 27 was awarded yesterday.  I watched the project delayed  a good 15 times at the NCDot contract letting page and at one point was going to go south to exit 17.  But the price of the larger project jumped a good 40% to past 1 bil.

Lucky you are. US1 in Raleigh which is only 4 lanes has had it's widening delayed until after 2031, along with 9 other Triangle road projects now scheduled for 2031-2035.

US-1 being four or even six lanes isn't the biggest issue, the biggest issue is the lack of controlled access and the abundance of traffic signals. The project will convert several miles into a six lane controlled access freeway.

Did that help Independence Blvd in Charlotte?

I think adding a 3rd lane up to the Franklin Co. line and converting some of the intersections to reduced conflict design would greatly benefit US 1 more than anything.

The limited access conversion will at most only result in 3-5 miles of freeway-like conditions and most of the project involves grade separations at 3 intersections and adding some access streets for businesses that lose direct access. The original estimate of $400 million is now $1.3 billion for all of that earthwork to raise US1 over 3 intersections.

Even doing nothing but removing a few of the less important signaled intersections would greatly help. The Town of Wake Forest is now so big and Franklin Co. growing with residential at a fast clip that the 4 lanes can't handle the volume and it is just painful during much of the day.

The delayed start for US1 is now 2031-2035.

[Great Lakes Roads]

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5718-2025-10-17.aspx

Two public meetings on the I-77 "South" project in Charlotte to add 2 express lanes in each direction.

[Henry]

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5718-2025-10-17.aspx

Two public meetings on the I-77 "South" project in Charlotte to add 2 express lanes in each direction.

It's going to be interesting how this new set of express lanes will tie into the existing ones to the north. I'd expect new lights, rebuilt overpasses and retaining walls where there once were none, and probably a direct connection to the I-485 express lanes as well. IOW, I-77 through the city is going to look totally different in 10 years!

[ARMOURERERIC]

Apparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed.  Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit.  Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

There are project maps for the public meetings. Will potentially have elevated and stacked lanes. Appears to tie in to the existing express lanes on 77 and 485.

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-77-south-express-lanes/Pages/project-maps.aspx

[architect77]

Apparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed.  Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit.  Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.

The state will probably not reduce normal allocation of funds to Charlotte's division because this funding is generated slowly over many years. It will be several years before 40% of what's collected becomes a substantial amount anyway, NCDOT is so underfunded now that their cost-cutting across the state is ruining the legacy of having better highway standards. Raleigh's Beltline improvement finally redoing the last 4-lane section left dating to the 1960s, is building the cheapest looking overpass with too skinny columns and beams, and all of the signage is half the normal size. It screams' cutting corners to save money. I'm angry.

[Rothman]

Apparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed.  Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit.  Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.

The state will probably not reduce normal allocation of funds to Charlotte's division because this funding is generated slowly over many years. It will be several years before 40% of what's collected becomes a substantial amount anyway, NCDOT is so underfunded now that their cost-cutting across the state is ruining the legacy of having better highway standards. Raleigh's Beltline improvement finally redoing the last 4-lane section left dating to the 1960s, is building the cheapest looking overpass with too skinny columns and beams, and all of the signage is half the normal size. It screams' cutting corners to save money. I'm angry.

What do you think the effect of the skinny supports will be?

[sprjus4]

There are project maps for the public meetings. Will potentially have elevated and stacked lanes. Appears to tie in to the existing express lanes on 77 and 485.

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-77-south-express-lanes/Pages/project-maps.aspx

No issue with the Express Lanes here, but the mainline should certainly be widened to 4 lanes in each direction at minimum.

[sprjus4]

There are project maps for the public meetings. Will potentially have elevated and stacked lanes. Appears to tie in to the existing express lanes on 77 and 485.

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-77-south-express-lanes/Pages/project-maps.aspx

It's worth noting that having elevated express lanes closer to Downtown is simply one alternative. The other alternative adds surface level express lanes, like the rest. The surface level one actually appears to reconstruct the whole freeway and modernize the interchanges near Downtown, whereas the elevated ones just go on top of the existing lanes and interchanges with relatively no improvements.

I would favor the surface level ones here, IMO. Not sure about costs though, but I can't imagine the elevated are cheap either.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5718-2025-10-17.aspx

Two public meetings on the I-77 "South" project in Charlotte to add 2 express lanes in each direction.

It's going to be interesting how this new set of express lanes will tie into the existing ones to the north. I'd expect new lights, rebuilt overpasses and retaining walls where there once were none, and probably a direct connection to the I-485 express lanes as well. IOW, I-77 through the city is going to look totally different in 10 years!

See the above public  meeting maps, they paint a good picture.

[architect77]

Apparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed.  Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit.  Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.

The state will probably not reduce normal allocation of funds to Charlotte's division because this funding is generated slowly over many years. It will be several years before 40% of what's collected becomes a substantial amount anyway, NCDOT is so underfunded now that their cost-cutting across the state is ruining the legacy of having better highway standards. Raleigh's Beltline improvement finally redoing the last 4-lane section left dating to the 1960s, is building the cheapest looking overpass with too skinny columns and beams, and all of the signage is half the normal size. It screams' cutting corners to save money. I'm angry.

What do you think the effect of the skinny supports will be?

I doubt the skinny supports will collapse, but there is a point at which they become visually unappealing.

Just like NC used to build flyovers with all custom curved exposed steel beams that were a single swooping curve, beautiful, and now they are mixing in precast concrete beams and the curved steel is only where it has to be curved, ruining the overall monolithic quality of the flyover.

[Rothman]

Apparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed.  Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit.  Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.

The state will probably not reduce normal allocation of funds to Charlotte's division because this funding is generated slowly over many years. It will be several years before 40% of what's collected becomes a substantial amount anyway, NCDOT is so underfunded now that their cost-cutting across the state is ruining the legacy of having better highway standards. Raleigh's Beltline improvement finally redoing the last 4-lane section left dating to the 1960s, is building the cheapest looking overpass with too skinny columns and beams, and all of the signage is half the normal size. It screams' cutting corners to save money. I'm angry.

What do you think the effect of the skinny supports will be?

I doubt the skinny supports will collapse, but there is a point at which they become visually unappealing.

Just like NC used to build flyovers with all custom curved exposed steel beams that were a single swooping curve, beautiful, and now they are mixing in precast concrete beams and the curved steel is only where it has to be curved, ruining the overall monolithic quality of the flyover.

It's just a matter of aesthetics?

[Great Lakes Roads]

There are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).

https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html

[chrisdiaz]

There are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).

https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html

I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.

[wriddle082]

There are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).

https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html

I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.

I think they're just gonna have to conform and upgrade the I-185 Palmetto Pass system to something compatible with EZPass.  That's probably how we'll ultimately get I-73 built to Myrtle Beach at this point, via tolls.

But it's way too early to tell right now what will happen.

[WashuOtaku]

There are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).

https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html

I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.

From what I have heard, and take that with a grain of salt, NCDOT wants to build the extension to Gold Hill Road and will manage it too, meaning using the NC Quickpass. Obviously this would require the state legislators to pass some law allowing it to happen, so we will see.

[PColumbus73]

There are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).

https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html

I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.

From what I have heard, and take that with a grain of salt, NCDOT wants to build the extension to Gold Hill Road and will manage it too, meaning using the NC Quickpass. Obviously this would require the state legislators to pass some law allowing it to happen, so we will see.

That might pose some interesting questions. Like if South Carolina agreed to letting NCDOT build / maintain HOT lanes in South Carolina, does that give Cintas (or whomever) essentially a back door into South Carolina?

Would North and South Carolina have to create a quasi-governmental agency like PANYNJ?

I would think SC might feel that this would be forced upon them as they didn't enter into the agreement like NC did with Cintas.

[Dirt Roads]

There are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).

https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html

I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.

From what I have heard, and take that with a grain of salt, NCDOT wants to build the extension to Gold Hill Road and will manage it too, meaning using the NC Quickpass. Obviously this would require the state legislators to pass some law allowing it to happen, so we will see.

That might pose some interesting questions. Like if South Carolina agreed to letting NCDOT build / maintain HOT lanes in South Carolina, does that give Cintas (or whomever) essentially a back door into South Carolina?

Would North and South Carolina have to create a quasi-governmental agency like PANYNJ?

I would think SC might feel that this would be forced upon them as they didn't enter into the agreement like NC did with Cintas.

Cintas could still set up the tolling facility on the North Carolina side of the line (just like Carowinds has the park entrance on the South Carolina side).   

[chrisdiaz]

There are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).

https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html

I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.

From what I have heard, and take that with a grain of salt, NCDOT wants to build the extension to Gold Hill Road and will manage it too, meaning using the NC Quickpass. Obviously this would require the state legislators to pass some law allowing it to happen, so we will see.

That might pose some interesting questions. Like if South Carolina agreed to letting NCDOT build / maintain HOT lanes in South Carolina, does that give Cintas (or whomever) essentially a back door into South Carolina?

Would North and South Carolina have to create a quasi-governmental agency like PANYNJ?

I would think SC might feel that this would be forced upon them as they didn't enter into the agreement like NC did with Cintas.

Cintas could still set up the tolling facility on the North Carolina side of the line (just like Carowinds has the park entrance on the South Carolina side).   

That's what I was thinking, they could just have the first/last toll gantry just north of the state line, but continue the lanes into SC for the next little bit with no other entrances/exits

[PColumbus73]

Is there precedent for one state widening another states' highways? Outside of geographical constraints?

This wouldn't be the same as a highway dipping into another state, like I-86 (NY/PA) and I-684 (NY/CT), but North Carolina widening I-77 because North Carolina wanted it.

[fillup420]

i don't think SC would be very open to that idea. What do they stand to gain from this? I-77 is the rare example of a SC road being of higher quality than a NC road. the interstate widens out to 8 lanes immediately south of the border, and stays that way for about 13 miles to exit 77. so why should SC need any further upgrades? Plus, there is no median space for the express lanes, so they would have to expand the right-of-way to accommodate.