Charlotte

[architect77]

Lots of events took place from 1999-2020, and also:

1) Remember that the Charlotte region is handled by 3 different NCDOT divisions. That's important because up until McCrory became governor and completely changed funding for highway projects is allocated, a bigger portion of funding was being equally distributed to all highway divisions. Some rural regions had too much funding and metro areas didn't have enough funding. McCrory all but eliminated the portion that was being equally doled out (today only 5% of annual revenue is equally distributed). McCrory implemented scoring every project based on the most benefit to the most people which steered more to the populated regions. My home town has had a project make to the funding STIP and then removed over and over 3 times as another project elsewhere knocked it off the funding list.

2) So during the last 25 years, there were times when the divisions around Charlotte would have less and then more available funding for desired projects.

3) The great recession and slow recovery resulted in the state raiding the highway trust fund to pay the bills for a few years. But, give Gov. Perdue credit for rallying for Charlotte to receive the lion's share of big project funding for years that completed I-485 and got I-85 rebuilt at Charlotte to be today's nicest interstate in the state and beyond. On top of that she found another $400 million to replace the Yadkin River Bridge, where the old one caught Southbound I-85 traffic by surprise as a blind corner put you on a narrow 4-lane bridge over the river with no room for error for a scary 15 seconds.

4) Multiple hurricanes around 2017 decimated NCDOT's funds so badly that today on their website they have a weekly report on available cash on hand to operate.

5) And finally over the past 25 years NCDOT has changed what it considers to be the optimum size for interstates and they also decided to rebuild only one final time. So that's why the 8-lane freeway is the standard that they build. They used to just add a 3rd lane when widening interstates. Growth really accelerated in the 90s which likely influenced their future construction guidelines.

I just want NC to raise its gas tax since it maintains the 2nd largest system in the nation after Texas. SC and GA gas  prices are the same as NC and they maintain half as many miles as NCDOT.

Makes me wonder about how much in federal Emergency Recovery funding they get due to the hurricanes and what emergency funding the State has to come up with on their own and where that line is set.  NY only gets a large natural disaster every-so-often, so the ER funds flow in pretty well when that occurs and even for the smaller events that happen annually wherever.  Not a whole lot of core funding, whether normal federal allocations from the bill or state allocations gets put towards repairing damage from natural events (at least transportation-wise).  However, obviously NC gets hit harder with much broader damage in the gazillions, so just curious how the funding mix ends up down yonder.

You can find that info on NCDOT's website. They post documents detailing every budget line item for each fiscal year.
I would guess that the feds always send less than promised and NCDOT has to reallocate funding away from intended uses for the repairs.

They haven't released the $1.1 billion for the Raleigh to Richmond rail project, saying they must review it first. I don't know if VA and NC are making progress on their own or not.

[bob7374]

The impending winter storm will allow drivers on I-485 to get a preview of some of the Express Lane signage:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-01-23-winter-weather-temporary-uncovering-overhead-signage-i-485-express-lanes.aspx

[bob7374]

NCDOT post about choosing the 'Least Impactful Design' for the I-77 Express Lanes:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx

Surprise, they ruled out a tunnel suggestion as being too expensive.

[Great Lakes Roads]

NCDOT post about choosing the 'Least Impactful Design' for the I-77 Express Lanes:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx

Surprise, they ruled out a tunnel suggestion as being too expensive.

Elevated lanes in downtown Charlotte? Nice! 

[cowboy_wilhelm]

NCDOT post about choosing the 'Least Impactful Design' for the I-77 Express Lanes:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx

Surprise, they ruled out a tunnel suggestion as being too expensive.

Elevated lanes in downtown Charlotte? Nice! 

Uptown 

[The Ghostbuster]

Will the elevated lanes be built similar to Interstate 110's in Los Angeles?

[Henry]

Will the elevated lanes be built similar to Interstate 110's in Los Angeles?

I'm thinking more of I-75 north of Atlanta.

[PColumbus73]

Will the elevated lanes be built similar to Interstate 110's in Los Angeles?

I'm thinking more of I-75 north of Atlanta.

Don't they call that the Tollercoaster?

[architect77]

Will the elevated lanes be built similar to Interstate 110's in Los Angeles?

I'm thinking more of I-75 north of Atlanta.

Don't they call that the Tollercoaster?

The I-75 Express Lanes in Cobb are reversible and were completed for quite a low sum of money. I think that the 16 miles or so cost about $900 million almost 10 years ago. I like the design of the support pillars as the bents are a single pillar like most overpasses in NC. However people say that you cannot drive at high speeds on the elevated lanes and I assume the inclines and declines aren't gradual enough for speeds of 75 mph.

I'm disappointed with the proposed structure for the I-77 upper deck because of the 2 column design. The elevated viaduct in LA that's mentioned above runs down the median with single pillars supporting the wider road bed above. I know it's more expensive but it looks more elegant. But hey, Charlotte has the only 4 level interchange in the state and NCDOT can't afford to build lots of flyovers anymore, just look at the turbine interchange in Southern Wake Co. that stays on the ground at an interchange of 4 highways at once.

[Chris]

NCDOT has published a map with these visualizations. The express lanes will only be elevated near Uptown to avoid the expansion of the freeway footprint, elsewhere they will run at ground level.

[WashuOtaku]

NCDOT post about choosing the 'Least Impactful Design' for the I-77 Express Lanes:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx

Surprise, they ruled out a tunnel suggestion as being too expensive.

Tunnels are expensive and require continuous maintenance. Find me a transportation tunnel anywhere that is cheap and affordable, built in the last 50 years.

As for what they selected, it did not matter because people were going to be upset regardless. Not a fan of the elevated option personally, but the option I like was a no-go because it took a lot of neighboring land.

I guess this will be the drama now for the next decade. 

[architect77]

I looked at these renderings and I wish they would forget the elevated roadway and stay on the ground. It looks incredibly complicated for all of the entering and exiting the Express Lanes beside the general purpose lanes.

All of this added expense for elevated structures and ramps is to save how many properties? 50, 100, 500? It seems like those homeowners would be happy to take a big buyout to get away from the roar of the completed project where the elevated lanes won't have sound wall protection for the most part.

Anyway, wouldn't it be easier and faster to add a 4th lane for its entirety? Diminishing returns negatively reduce a 5th lane's efficiency, and NCDOT could and needs to raise the gas tax statewide and fund this relatively short stretch of an added free lane without borrowing from a private consortium.

You all may love the complexity of the proposed project but just like in Raleigh, US1 North could benefit from just adding a 3rd lane up to Franklin County, but instead they want to partially make it limited access and inflation has raised the estimated cost to a level that it won't be started until 2031-2035. Overkill in my opinion.

[Henry]

Based on the illustrations from the press release, it looks like the most complicated part of the project would be to rebuild the southern I-277 junction. Aside from the addition of two more ramps and the raising of an existing one, the northern I-277 junction was mostly intact, as the express lanes were to end there. But now that they're continuing southward, the billion-dollar question is, where exactly will the elevated part of the extension start and end? As small as Uptown is compared to the Chicago Loop, Midtown Manhattan or even Downtown Atlanta, this mini-Tollercoaster looks like a waste of money and resources, even though I get why they don't want to take more land than would be ideal for a project of this magnitude.

[PColumbus73]

I feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?

[WashuOtaku]

I feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?

A reminder, the state owns the major thoroughfares and freeways, not the city; it is a state project.

The city, and soon a transit authority, maintains and operates CATS and LYNX rail. It is the city/authority responsibility to expand the network, not the state.

[PColumbus73]

I feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?

A reminder, the state owns the major thoroughfares and freeways, not the city; it is a state project.

The city, and soon a transit authority, maintains and operates CATS and LYNX rail. It is the city/authority responsibility to expand the network, not the state.

I'm aware of this, but NCDOT did contribute funding for the construction of the Lynx Blue Line ( Wikipedia )

[WashuOtaku]

I feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?

A reminder, the state owns the major thoroughfares and freeways, not the city; it is a state project.

The city, and soon a transit authority, maintains and operates CATS and LYNX rail. It is the city/authority responsibility to expand the network, not the state.

I'm aware of this, but NCDOT did contribute funding for the construction of the Lynx Blue Line ( Wikipedia )

Yea they did. But the rules since changed and now require majority of funding to be allocated (from local and/or Fed) before the state chip in. I'm glad ownership of CATS/LYNX will be transferred from the City to a Authority, because the City has done nothing but drag its feet for the last decade on transportation needs, saying we don't have the money, but then forks millions anytime a Billionaire asks.

[Plutonic Panda]

The 485 express lanes project is nearing completion which also added a GP lane in each direction:

https://www.globalhighways.com/news/346-million-north-carolina-express-lanes

[architect77]

I feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?

The rail line moves only people where as every aspect of life gets transported on roads.

 Pound for pound I thin the cost of this project would maybe build one complete new LRT line. Would construction have to use private financing" Each trip would have to charge closer to the real cost of around $15. Probably another increase in sales tax of at least another 1% to pay each year's operational costs thereafter.

[PColumbus73]

I feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?

The rail line moves only people where as every aspect of life gets transported on roads.

 Pound for pound I thin the cost of this project would maybe build one complete new LRT line. Would construction have to use private financing" Each trip would have to charge closer to the real cost of around $15. Probably another increase in sales tax of at least another 1% to pay each year's operational costs thereafter.

Also, the I-77 express lanes on the northern side of the city come with a stipulation of preventing adjacent road widenings near the I-77 corridor. Will that also apply to potential projects south of Uptown? I don't think the project would concern SCDOT at all, but it would be interesting to see how Cintas/NCDOT's relationship affects future cross-border projects.

[WashuOtaku]

Also, the I-77 express lanes on the northern side of the city come with a stipulation of preventing adjacent road widenings near the I-77 corridor. Will that also apply to potential projects south of Uptown? I don't think the project would concern SCDOT at all, but it would be interesting to see how Cintas/NCDOT's relationship affects future cross-border projects.

That will depend on the contract negotiated and with who.

[architect77]

I feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?

The rail line moves only people where as every aspect of life gets transported on roads.

 Pound for pound I thin the cost of this project would maybe build one complete new LRT line. Would construction have to use private financing" Each trip would have to charge closer to the real cost of around $15. Probably another increase in sales tax of at least another 1% to pay each year's operational costs thereafter.

Also, the I-77 express lanes on the northern side of the city come with a stipulation of preventing adjacent road widenings near the I-77 corridor. Will that also apply to potential projects south of Uptown? I don't think the project would concern SCDOT at all, but it would be interesting to see how Cintas/NCDOT's relationship affects future cross-border projects.

It doesn't seem like there is any nearby corridor for them to not allow. I mean is a highway over on the East side of Charlotte a potential alternate to I-77?

I wonder if they ever studied beefing up a nearby North -South corridor as a way to relieve I-77. The constrained right of way really is the driver of so much expense for this capacity increase endeavor.

[WashuOtaku]

It doesn't seem like there is any nearby corridor for them to not allow. I mean is a highway over on the East side of Charlotte a potential alternate to I-77?

I wonder if they ever studied beefing up a nearby North -South corridor as a way to relieve I-77. The constrained right of way really is the driver of so much expense for this capacity increase endeavor.

The original north-south corridor was South Boulevard (formally US 21 and later US 521), followed by South Tryon Street (NC 49). I-77/US 21 exists to move traffic off the city streets; so moving it back (by widening lanes or converting to super-street or expressway design) would be a non-starter (especially with booming South End).

[architect77]

It doesn't seem like there is any nearby corridor for them to not allow. I mean is a highway over on the East side of Charlotte a potential alternate to I-77?

I wonder if they ever studied beefing up a nearby North -South corridor as a way to relieve I-77. The constrained right of way really is the driver of so much expense for this capacity increase endeavor.

The original north-south corridor was South Boulevard (formally US 21 and later US 521), followed by South Tryon Street (NC 49). I-77/US 21 exists to move traffic off the city streets; so moving it back (by widening lanes or converting to super-street or expressway design) would be a non-starter (especially with booming South End).

I understand.

Do you or anyone else know how many properties would have to be taken for the option to avoid the elevated structure?

I wonder what the noise level will be for the properties saved after this project is completed. Express Lanes are designed to free flow at 45mph or faster all the time meaning there will be a roar all the time above the elevation that sound walls can mitigate.

[WashuOtaku]

It doesn't seem like there is any nearby corridor for them to not allow. I mean is a highway over on the East side of Charlotte a potential alternate to I-77?

I wonder if they ever studied beefing up a nearby North -South corridor as a way to relieve I-77. The constrained right of way really is the driver of so much expense for this capacity increase endeavor.

The original north-south corridor was South Boulevard (formally US 21 and later US 521), followed by South Tryon Street (NC 49). I-77/US 21 exists to move traffic off the city streets; so moving it back (by widening lanes or converting to super-street or expressway design) would be a non-starter (especially with booming South End).

I understand.

Do you or anyone else know how many properties would have to be taken for the option to avoid the elevated structure?

I wonder what the noise level will be for the properties saved after this project is completed. Express Lanes are designed to free flow at 45mph or faster all the time meaning there will be a roar all the time above the elevation that sound walls can mitigate.

No, but the maps are on the project's website to look at. They already get sound, so what they are more angry about is likely the view.