Expensive road projects drive Clinton’s plan to lift coal country

[cpzilliacus]

McClatchyDC: Expensive road projects drive Clinton's plan to lift coal country

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton's plan for helping economically depressed coal communities includes a proposal to finish a 50-year-old Appalachian highway system that many environmentalists oppose and would cost taxpayers billions of dollars.

As part of a $30 billion proposal announced Thursday, Clinton called for the completion of the 3,090-mile Appalachian Development Highway System, established in 1965 to improve roads in Appalachian states. About 300 miles remain unfinished, but they come with a staggering price tag: $11.4 billion, according to a 2012 estimate.

According to the Appalachian Regional Commission, the agency that manages the program, Congress had allocated $11.2 billion as of 2012 to build roughly 90 percent of the road system.

The Clinton campaign did not respond to questions about the proposal's cost, economic benefit or environmental impact.

[oscar]

'Twould give new meaning to "Corridor H", huh?

[cpzilliacus]

'Twould give new meaning to "Corridor H", huh?

Would presumably get it done faster. 

[Bitmapped]

WVDOH hasn't even started final design on the sections of Corridor H not yet under construction/contract. It would take several years before they'd be ready to build anything.

With the exception of US 460 (Corridor Q) and the Corridor F part of US 119, none of the incomplete ADHS projects are actually in the traditional coalfields areas. West Virginia would be well-served to try getting the King Coal/Tolsia Highways and Coalfields Expressway added to ADHS if a big new pot of money is going to become available.

[GCrites]

This won't generate economic development. It will merely lower the coal companies' transportation costs.

[cpzilliacus]

WVDOH hasn't even started final design on the sections of Corridor H not yet under construction. It would take several years before they'd be ready to build anything.

I disagree.

It is my understanding that the WVDOH is going to award a contract to extend western Corridor H east from the current terminus at Kerens to a point along U.S. 219 between Montrose and Moore.  See details here (look for the section highlighted in blue - if you click to the larger map [Entire Map (135k)], it is highlighted in yellow).

[AlexandriaVA]

This won't generate economic development. It will merely lower the coal companies' transportation costs.

Those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Coal Country won't win over any states for her per se, but any votes she can get in VA from coal country will basically neutralize GOP votes in that state (since Northern VA, Richmond, and Tidewater will go Democrat). Same with consolidating the balance in Ohio and PA. WV could be a lost cause, but they might vote Democrat again since they wouldn't be faced with the possibility of voting for a black guy.

[cpzilliacus]

Coal Country won't win over any states for her per se, but any votes she can get in VA from coal country will basically neutralize GOP votes in that state (since Northern VA, Richmond, and Tidewater will go Democrat). Same with consolidating the balance in Ohio and PA. WV could be a lost cause, but they might vote Democrat again since they wouldn't be faced with the possibility of voting for a black guy.

It is my understanding that the coal seams around the Dominion Virginia Power Mount Storm Generating Station are extracted and the coal gets trucked directly there for use, and that coal from further away comes via the CSX Transportation spur that winds up the mountain from the Potomac River valley near Bayard (ex-Western Maryland mainline that once went to Thomas, Parsons and Elkins).

In other words, not so much coal gets trucked from further away. 

I made a comment here that I had seen large trucks climbing the Allegheny Front Range on the steep and twisting W.Va. 42/W.Va. 93 (Union Highway) before that part of Corridor H was completed, and assumed they were carrying coal, but was told by someone that those trucks were probably transporting lime for use by the plant's emission control system.

[AlexandriaVA]

Most road projects in rural areas have limited rates-of-return anyway, so I doubt anyone will care about the technical aspects of the road projects.

The larger point is for Clinton to be able to come out and say "I support Appalachia" to the electorate for the primary and general elections. The details are less relevant.

[hbelkins]

This won't do much for Kentucky, as most of our ADHS system is already complete. The only missing links are US 460 from the Wolfpit/Marrowbone area of Pike County to the state line (now under construction) and the section of US 119 across Pine Mountain in Letcher County, which is proposed to be a tunnel.

Isn't the section of Corridor H north of Kerens that's supposed to be done by 2019 a design-build project?

I would support the addition of corridors to the ADHS system, to include the Coalfields Expressway and King Coal Highway and whatever parts of WV 10 the state plans to build. (Honestly, I don't get the point of a four-lane road just from Logan to Man).

And, as I said not long ago, Corridor H has already generated economic development in Moorefield. There are quite a few businesses there now that weren't before that section of US 48 opened.

Clinton doesn't have a prayer in Kentucky anyway. Her husband carried the state twice, but Hillary can't relate to the people of Kentucky the way Bill did. He was a huge Arkansas Razorbacks fan and he was elected at a time when Arkansas and UK were the top programs in the SEC. In addition to whatever other attraction he held for Kentucky voters, they could relate and respect that. Hillary doesn't have anything in common with Kentuckians like Bill did. And the two counties in which the ADHS routes haven't been finished yet just voted for a Republican governor for the first time in anyone's memory.

[Scott5114]

Clinton doesn't have a prayer in Kentucky anyway. Her husband carried the state twice, but Hillary can't relate to the people of Kentucky the way Bill did. He was a huge Arkansas Razorbacks fan and he was elected at a time when Arkansas and UK were the top programs in the SEC. In addition to whatever other attraction he held for Kentucky voters, they could relate and respect that.

I really hope that this isn't a reason people vote for Presidential candidates...

[SP Cook]

This is voodoo economics. 

Understand, first, that the extremist view unerlaying this is the total elimination of coal mining.  This is the extemists' alternative to "just starve to death" to those who currently mine coal.

This is really a matter of topography.  If you look at a place with a topography similar to "coal country" but w/o any coal to mine, then what is there?    The answer is, well, not much.  A few marginal farmers, maybe some timber harvesting, the standard infastructure people that are anywhere (cops, the guy who fixes stuff, teachers, firemen, courthouse folk, restaurants, whatever) and pretty much nothing else.  In some places "returned retirees" (people who GTFO when young and return to live out their golden years) ,  dirty hippies who want to play farmer, and life welfarists.  That is it. 

Coal country is populated because of coal.  If there were no coal, these places would be very much like their non-coal producing similar topographic places.  Virtually unpolulated.  You can build all the roads you want, along with all this other ho-ha and the fact remains the same.  There is no economicaly viable use for this land and thus no way to earn an honest living w/o coal. 

If you start with the presupositon that we really want to eliminate coal (I, of course, do not) then a better economic development plan is a moving van.

[hbelkins]

Clinton doesn't have a prayer in Kentucky anyway. Her husband carried the state twice, but Hillary can't relate to the people of Kentucky the way Bill did. He was a huge Arkansas Razorbacks fan and he was elected at a time when Arkansas and UK were the top programs in the SEC. In addition to whatever other attraction he held for Kentucky voters, they could relate and respect that.

I really hope that this isn't a reason people vote for Presidential candidates...

Not really, other than it was an example of how people in rural areas could/can relate to Bill more than they will Hillary. Even in what is turning into an increasingly poisonous environment for Democrats in Kentucky on a national level, if Bill was running now, he'd have a very good chance of winning in this state.

Bill is more likable and personable than Hillary.

[AlexandriaVA]

Clinton doesn't have a prayer in Kentucky anyway. Her husband carried the state twice, but Hillary can't relate to the people of Kentucky the way Bill did. He was a huge Arkansas Razorbacks fan and he was elected at a time when Arkansas and UK were the top programs in the SEC. In addition to whatever other attraction he held for Kentucky voters, they could relate and respect that.

I really hope that this isn't a reason people vote for Presidential candidates...

Not really, other than it was an example of how people in rural areas could/can relate to Bill more than they will Hillary. Even in what is turning into an increasingly poisonous environment for Democrats in Kentucky on a national level, if Bill was running now, he'd have a very good chance of winning in this state.

Bill is more likable and personable than Hillary.

Monica really liked him!

[cpzilliacus]

This is voodoo economics. 

Understand, first, that the extremist view unerlaying this is the total elimination of coal mining.  This is the extemists' alternative to "just starve to death" to those who currently mine coal.

This is really a matter of topography.  If you look at a place with a topography similar to "coal country" but w/o any coal to mine, then what is there?    The answer is, well, not much.  A few marginal farmers, maybe some timber harvesting, the standard infastructure people that are anywhere (cops, the guy who fixes stuff, teachers, firemen, courthouse folk, restaurants, whatever) and pretty much nothing else.  In some places "returned retirees" (people who GTFO when young and return to live out their golden years) ,  dirty hippies who want to play farmer, and life welfarists.  That is it. 

Coal country is populated because of coal.  If there were no coal, these places would be very much like their non-coal producing similar topographic places.  Virtually unpolulated.  You can build all the roads you want, along with all this other ho-ha and the fact remains the same.  There is no economicaly viable use for this land and thus no way to earn an honest living w/o coal. 

If you start with the presupositon that we really want to eliminate coal (I, of course, do not) then a better economic development plan is a moving van.

You mention timber harvesting above.

I have seen more than a few tractor-trailer loads of freshly-cut logs that were presumably felled in non-wilderness parts of the Monongahela National Forest being transported along U.S. 219.  Not sure what the destination of the logs might be - perhaps the Kingsford charcoal plant on 219 in Parsons and the Verso (formerly Westvaco) paper mill on Md. 135 in Luke, or places further away (I have read one of the justifications for Corridor H is to get at least some of the forest products to the Virginia Inland Port off of U.S. 340/U.S. 522 north of Front Royal).

There is a fair amount of farming and chicken raising along eastern Corridor H, though that may not be an especially attractive or feasible activity between Knobley Road and Montrose (I assume that all of Corridor H will be completed at some point as I write this) due to the nature of the terrain, and because much of the land is in government ownership.

Getting back to coal and resource extraction generally, some parts of West Virginia have lands that are suitable for fracking.  And there are also the windmills (somewhat common along the Alleghenies because of the elevation of the ridgetops), but I do not know how much employment is generated by these activities.

[Bitmapped]

WVDOH hasn't even started final design on the sections of Corridor H not yet under construction. It would take several years before they'd be ready to build anything.

I disagree.

It is my understanding that the WVDOH is going to award a contract to extend western Corridor H east from the current terminus at Kerens to a point along U.S. 219 between Montrose and Moore.  See details here (look for the section highlighted in blue - if you click to the larger map [Entire Map (135k)], it is highlighted in yellow).

I'm counting that Kerens-Parsons connector section as "under construction" since WVDOH has already accepted bids and is in the process of awarding the contract.

[triplemultiplex]

Democrats have a tough time letting go of a voter base that has already left them.  Unionized coal miners in rural Appalachia used to make those states competitive.  But that demographic is dwindling and shifting its allegiance right over other issues.  Still, the Dems can't let go.  Even President Obama spouted that nonsense about "clean coal" while running the first time in futile attempt to win them over.

America already employs way, way more people in solar and wind, so I don't see why Hill-Dog is pandering to the coal industry with promises of expensive new roads to nowhere.  They are not going to vote for her no matter what she says.  This only pisses off people like me who Hillary needs to show up in big numbers to win next fall.

Shifting gears slightly; why the hell is the Birmingham beltline considered part of the Appalachian Development Corridor?  I thought the point of it was to provide better roads in rural areas.  That Birmingham proposal is a 100% urban freeway by comparison.  What a farce to include that in the same category as these other proposed roads!

[froggie]

Pork and politics...that's why the Birmingham Northern Beltline is on the AHCS...

[cpzilliacus]

I'm counting that Kerens-Parsons connector section as "under construction" since WVDOH has already accepted bids and is in the process of awarding the contract.

I have not seen them make an announcement as to who the winning bidder(s) might be, have you?

It is my hope that the selected contractor will have gotten NTP and started work by next year, as I was planning on one or maybe two stops for the Corridor H meet being along the construction for this, which likely will not have progressed much beyond clearing and grubbing.

[hbelkins]

Monica really liked him!

I think Monica found him lickable moreso than likeable. /rimshot