The US Military needs to take action in Mexico

[US 41]

It seems like Mexico cannot and never will really win against the drug cartels. The toll roads in Mexico for the most part are very safe to drive on. A drive from Laredo, Texas to Mexico City can be made successfully by anyone thanks to the security on the toll roads. In fact most of the federal libre roads are even safe to drive on. In fact I would be willing to drive on every federal highway (libre or cuota) in Mexico. I feel the risk of being a victim of crime in Mexico is pretty small, but driving in Mexico can be risky if you are not careful, especially if you travel off of the main highways.

However Sinaloa and Tamaulipas are two extreme exceptions. Both states have been overrun by cartels. The US focuses on terrorism in the Middle East (which we should), but we seem to ignore the threat that cartels present, not only just south of our border, but in our country too. I feel like if Mexico and the US were to take action together the cartels could be beaten. The US has the best military in the world. I believe we could easily defeat the cartels. Recently two Australians were burned to death in their van near Topoloblampo shortly after getting off of the ferry from Baja California. That is inexcusable. The US shouldn't take action because of two Australians, we should take action to help keep this kind of crap from happening in the future, especially to the Americans that cross the border by car daily. Lots of Americans make the drive from Arizona to Mazatlan and Puerto Vallarta. We need to make sure they are safe when they make a trip like this. You shouldn't have to pay tolls to make sure you are safe on a trip.

[AlexandriaVA]

Lighten up Francis.

[corco]

Well the US can't just invade Mexico without Mexico's consent, and I think you overestimate how much the Mexican government actually cares about the cartels.

The only way the US puts boots on the ground is if the cartels actively start hurting Americans en masse and Mexico does nothing about it. Anything more would be a violation of Mexico's sovereignty.

Certainly we wouldn't go to war with a neighboring country just so that Americans feel comfortable using non-toll roads while traveling through that country. That's ludicrous.

Mexico is a foreign, independent country with its own priorities. It's not a playground for Americans.

[US 41]

Well the US can't just invade Mexico without Mexico's consent, and I think you overestimate how much the Mexican government actually cares about the cartels.

The only way the US puts boots on the ground is if the cartels actively start hurting Americans en masse and Mexico does nothing about it. Anything more would be a violation of Mexico's sovereignty.

Certainly we wouldn't go to war with a neighboring country just so that Americans feel comfortable using non-toll roads while traveling through that country. That's ludicrous.

Mexico is a foreign, independent country with its own priorities. It's not a playground for Americans.

I don't think we should do it without their consent. I think we should make the offer and work together with Mexico to beat the cartels. These cartels are building illegal drug tunnels into the US. 

[Zeffy]

Petty drug trafficking is nothing compared to what terrorism is. Cartels don't drive into Texas or Arizona and just deliberately start murdering people. Terrorists will, as evidenced by the events in France, on the Russian airliner and anywhere else they have decided to strike. The problems in Mexico are largely within Mexico itself. The problems in the Middle East however have started to branch to the western part of the world.

If we were to dedicate funding to fight Mexican cartels or Islamic terrorists, I would vote for the latter.

[US 41]

Petty drug trafficking is nothing compared to what terrorism is. Cartels don't drive into Texas or Arizona and just deliberately start murdering people. Terrorists will, as evidenced by the events in France, on the Russian airliner and anywhere else they have decided to strike. The problems in Mexico are largely within Mexico itself. The problems in the Middle East however have started to branch to the western part of the world.

If we were to dedicate funding to fight Mexican cartels or Islamic terrorists, I would vote for the latter.

I do agree with this. Islamic terrorism is a huge threat to the security of the US. That is why I am against letting Syrian refugees come to the US.

I don't think the US should ever get heavily involved in Mexico's affairs. As far as chasing down El Chapo a month or so ago, we should have offered to help with that. I'm a little confused as to why Mexico won't let the US take El Chapo. I think everyone knows he will escape again if he is sent back to a Mexican prison.

I believe that the US already gives Mexico money to help fight the cartels. The US probably already does enough. I over reacted a little bit after reading about the two Australians on a news story. I feel like there has to be more to the story than has been released. I don't think the cartels would just attack them without a good reason.
--------------------------------------------------

Off topic, but what is it with US Marines accidently crossing into Mexico with guns? I don't understand how you accidentally cross into Mexico without knowing it. Sounds fishy to me. How is it possible that you are military, but you don't even know where the southern border is?

[kkt]

We're already giving technical support -- satellite surveillance, weapons, money.  US boots on the ground would be counterproductive.

Ever heard of Pancho Villa?

[froggie]

The only way the US puts boots on the ground is if the cartels actively start hurting Americans en masse and Mexico does nothing about it. Anything more would be a violation of Mexico's sovereignty.

Even this would be a violation of Mexico's sovereignty if they did not request our assistance.

Here's the problem, and I speak with some experience here:  legally, U.S. military servicemembers do not have arrest authority, even (especially?) in International waters.  They can hold people (as we did in Afghanistan and do out on the open seas), but for us to go in guns blazing and arrest whomever we find would require a branch or agency that DOES have that authority.  Like the Coast Guard.  When I did counter-drug operations on one of my deployments, we had a Coast Guard detachment onboard because they were the ones who could legally arrest the guys in the drug boats that we'd find.

[hbelkins]

Cue the "legalize all drugs and the cartels' reason for existing will vanish" posts in 3, 2, 1...

[english si]

Cue the "legalize all drugs and the cartels' reason for existing will vanish" posts in 3, 2, 1...

Don't even have to wait that long!

legalize all drugs and the cartels' reason for existing will vanish

While I would suggest that the War on Drugs, like the War on Terror, is a futile thing that solves nothing except an exacerbation of misery, Froggie's arguments about sovereignty violations and the fact that the military isn't law enforcement and would have no authority would be the ones I would consider having more weight.

[US 41]

After reading all these posts I now think that sending the US Military to Mexico would be a bad idea. Thanks for all the comments and productive discussion. I am pretty open minded and like to hear both sides before coming to a complete conclusion. I've done some more research and Mexico really isn't doing too bad of a job fighting the cartels. Mexico is still far from perfect, but so is the US. What happened in California today at San Bernardino (at least 14 killed, 17 injured) was far more tragic than what just happened in Mexico. Sorry for the overreaction this morning.

[nexus73]

The cure of prohibition is worse than the disease.  The War On Some Drugs has sent $1 TRILLION down the rathole.  We imprison more people than any other nation on the planet.  California spends more on prisons than education and the prison guard union is the state's #1 political force.  Mexico's death toll is akin to that of the US in Korea and Vietnam.

Get the book "The Underground Empire" by James R. Mills to see how complicit the Reagan Administration was in bringing crack cocaine into our nation while the Republicans led the effort for higher sentences on those who used "rock" as opposed to the white dope version.  This is all part of the Iran-Contra Scandal.  Our own government has been in league with drug syndicates since the end of World War II, beginning with the Nationalist warlords who set up shop for opium/heroin production in northern Burma after Mao Tse Tung led the Communists to victory over Chiang Kai-Shek and the Nationalists in 1949. 

Add in the violation of Constitutional rights. search and seizure being used without due process, innocent people being killed by the police doing their drug raids, corruption everywhere (see the movie "Serpico") and is it any wonder I am totally pissed off?

You who read this (and the book I recommend, ignore it at your peril) should be too.

Rick

[cl94]

The cure of prohibition is worse than the disease.  The War On Some Drugs has sent $1 TRILLION down the rathole.  We imprison more people than any other nation on the planet.  California spends more on prisons than education and the prison guard union is the state's #1 political force.  Mexico's death toll is akin to that of the US in Korea and Vietnam.

Get the book "The Underground Empire" by James R. Mills to see how complicit the Reagan Administration was in bringing crack cocaine into our nation while the Republicans led the effort for higher sentences on those who used "rock" as opposed to the white dope version.  This is all part of the Iran-Contra Scandal.  Our own government has been in league with drug syndicates since the end of World War II, beginning with the Nationalist warlords who set up shop for opium/heroin production in northern Burma after Mao Tse Tung led the Communists to victory over Chiang Kai-Shek and the Nationalists in 1949. 

Add in the violation of Constitutional rights. search and seizure being used without due process, innocent people being killed by the police doing their drug raids, corruption everywhere (see the movie "Serpico") and is it any wonder I am totally pissed off?

You who read this (and the book I recommend, ignore it at your peril) should be too.

Rick

Ding, ding, ding. Alcohol prohibition didn't work. Addicts need medical care, not prison. I might be a bit biased because my mother works in the mental health field and many of her clients are addicts, but the war on drugs doesn't work. It only stops and discourages people from getting medical care.

[triplemultiplex]

The poll question is amusing.  Like America isn't already ass deep and nearly 100% culpable in the rise of narco-terrorism in Mexico.

The War on Drugs has been an unmitigated disaster.  Turning it into a real war is the height of insanity.

It's time for a war on the disastrous, freedom-destroying consequences of the Drug War.  No more SWAT teams serving search warrants armed like commandos.  Restore our fourth amendment right against illegal search and seizure.  End mandatory minimum sentencing.  Send addicts to rehab, not prison.  Legalize and regulate all controlled substances the same as alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceuticals. 

[Brandon]

We're already giving technical support -- satellite surveillance, weapons, money.  US boots on the ground would be counterproductive.

Ever heard of Pancho Villa?

My thoughts exactly.  Been there, done that, got the territory for it as well (the entire Mexican Cession - 1848).

Past examples of intervention in Mexico and some where there were invasions of the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLane%E2%80%93Ocampo_Treaty (never ratified by the US Senate)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_occupation_of_Veracruz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_the_Mexican_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garza_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandit_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Cuevas_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_War_%281910%E2%80%9319%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Columbus_%281916%29

[mgk920]

Seeing as the USA had conquered ALL of Mexico during the Mexican-American War and then promptly gave two-thirds of the land back to the loser (unprecedented in World history?) when Congress would not agree to formally annex it (the reasons mainly had to do with slavery and the Missouri Compromise), with the other third becoming the USA's southwest, I still don't see a pressing need to try undoing that part of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

Only if the Cartels completely overrun the Mexican federal government, sending a flood-tide of potentially millions of true refugees northward, can I see a need for direct USA military attention in that direction.  Yes, IMHO, it is a legitimate foreign affairs worry for the USA.

That said, I saw an article a few weeks ago where Vicente Fox, former El Presidente de México, said that he fully expects Mexico to end their prohibition on all recreational drugs by about 2020.

Mike

[Billy F 1988]

Um, really? How about we get the eff back to the basics and see the issues the United States itself has to deal with? Why is it that we have to be some other foreign country's babysitter? For all I know, the drug problem in Mexico is Mexico's problem to solve, not for the United States to tackle. We got far bigger problems of our own to deal with and they're not being taken care of with expediency.

[corco]

Dude, Billy, I saw Michoacán license plates in Montana on Sunday.

The Mexicans are coming - if they've invaded Montana, that pretty much means there are Mexicans in all 50 states now. We need to fight them before they invade us further with their cartels and drugs.

They're coming, Billy!