Most Worthless Control Cities

[Chrysler375Freeway]

Speaking of bypasses, the Eastern Bypass is planned as a true bypass for Cincinnati, like I-840 south of Nashville, but that's for another topic. There may already be a topic about the Cincy EB, so I won't go into full detail here.

Not going to happen, at least on the Ohio side. ODOT dropped out of the project.

They've invested $2B to maintain existing infrastructure, so I'm not surprised there, considering their attitude towards I-73's designation and construction, and I'm not even sure the Eastern Corridor will ever be finished, if it's even started, but that's for another topic, so I won't dive too deep into it here.

[Flint1979]

Sharon, PA on I-80 is barely a blip.  Should really be Youngstown, OH

Pretty much all of I-80 east of Youngstown is full of useless controls.  Dubois, Bloomsburg, Stroudsburg, Delaware Water Gap, and Netcong come to mind. Hazleton would be too if it weren't for the 81 junction.

I-275 in the Cincinnati area at numerous junctions simply says Kentucky as a control city for either the clockwise or counterclockwise direction, instead of Louisville or Lexington.

Going to repost what I said about I-275 above, since it seems like you skipped past it, and why I don't like Louisville or Lexington as control cities on it.

Because I-275 is a terrible bypass for the city. I prefer how they do it now in a portion of the highway, with control routes. Like "275 east to OH 32", and "275 west to I-75" at the I-71 interchange, and the mention for the airport in the KY side.

I-94 in Michigan west of Detroit completely ignores smaller major Michigan municipalities or those with major junctions (ignored both east and west of Detroit, i.e. I-196 in Benton Harbor, I-69 in Marshall, I-696 in Roseville-St. Clair Shores, etc.) it passes through or near on guide signs at major junctions (i.e. Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, etc.) instead opting for either Detroit or Chicago.

The states choose the control cities so MDOT is the one that chooses the control cities in Michigan, ODOT does in Ohio and KYTC does in Kentucky. What Ohio and Kentucky choose to use as control cities on I-275 around Cincinnati has nothing to do with what MDOT chooses to use as control cities on I-94. Chicago is the third largest city in the country and I-94 goes through it I don't see anything wrong with using Chicago. Most traffic on I-94 is heading to either Detroit or Chicago and those cities in Michigan are used at secondary interchanges.

Okay, I'll be willing to let 275 (OH-IN-KY) off because it passes through the states used for control cities. Also, at some point, it says Indianapolis, and I-74 goes to Indy. In Kentucky, it uses Airport, as it passes by the Cincinnati Metro region's airport. I'll let that slide. Columbus: connects via I-71. Dayton: connects via I-75.

The whole point is to guide people in the direction they are going. Where I-275 slips through Indiana there is only one interchange there and if you get on I-275 you are either going to be in Kentucky or Ohio by the time you reach the next interchange so that isn't a bad choice at all for control cities. Personally I look for the exit numbers when I'm getting off at an exit.

The area where it says Indianapolis is on the stretch where I-74 is running concurrent so it has more to do with where I-74 is leading you than where I-275 is leading you as most people are going to figure the route number 275 is a beltway or bypass which will connect you with I-75 at least at once. Using the Airport as a control city is a good choice as I-275 travels past the Airport. Honestly I think the choices that ODOT and KYTC have made have more to do with using control cities on routes that branch off I-275 such as Dayton, Columbus and Indianapolis, not so much Lexington. Louisville wouldn't make much sense even though I-71 goes there. That is up to KYTC at that point and I wouldn't be sure on the reason why they don't at least use Lexington.

[Flint1979]

Speaking of bypasses, the Eastern Bypass is planned as a true bypass for Cincinnati, like I-840 south of Nashville, but that's for another topic. There may already be a topic about the Cincy EB, so I won't go into full detail here.

Not going to happen, at least on the Ohio side. ODOT dropped out of the project.

It seems like ODOT is about in the same category as MDOT as regarding building new Interstate's. I believe MDOT is completely done building any new Interstate's and ODOT seems to be there too. If you think about it though each state is pretty much set with Interstate's and don't have many areas that needs new ones. In areas where freeways are needed a US route or State highway can easily be upgraded to Interstate standards but won't be Interstate highways.

[Chrysler375Freeway]

Speaking of bypasses, the Eastern Bypass is planned as a true bypass for Cincinnati, like I-840 south of Nashville, but that's for another topic. There may already be a topic about the Cincy EB, so I won't go into full detail here.

Not going to happen, at least on the Ohio side. ODOT dropped out of the project.

It seems like ODOT is about in the same category as MDOT as regarding building new Interstate's. I believe MDOT is completely done building any new Interstate's and ODOT seems to be there too. If you think about it though each state is pretty much set with Interstate's and don't have many areas that needs new ones. In areas where freeways are needed a US route or State highway can easily be upgraded to Interstate standards but won't be Interstate highways.

I believe MDOT is still trying to connect the St. Joseph Valley Parkway to I-94 on a different route after the first route was canned for passing through a butterfly habitat. The parkway currently dead ends at Napier Ave, and Hwy. 31 traffic northbound is forced to exit there to get to I-94 due to the freeway dead ending. But the parkway's north end is a topic for the Midwest forum.

[Sam]

Sharon, PA on I-80 is barely a blip.  Should really be Youngstown, OH

Pretty much all of I-80 east of Youngstown is full of useless controls.  Dubois, Bloomsburg, Stroudsburg, Delaware Water Gap, and Netcong come to mind. Hazleton would be too if it weren't for the 81 junction.

I never found those PA control cities helpful because I'm not familiar with them or where they are - but it just occurred to me that they are all (or were) US highway junctions.

[zachary_amaryllis]

Limon used by KDOT going west from Hays, KS.  Considering you have Denver, or Burlington across the state line from Kanorado, that is off  kilt for a city going west from anywhere in Kansas, especially from Hays. 

I can see it being used out of Denver going eastward, due to no real good places in Eastern Colorado and Topeka and Kansas City are way too far away at that point. Being it's the first place going east, it seems appropriate in that usage, but west of Hays you even have Goodland, Oakley, and even Colby which have just as much significance as Limon.  Plus its not even a major freeway junction like Benson is in NC, or even two major N-S meeting the interstate, so what significance is Limon to someone heading west across the Plains?

Limon, period, is a worthless control city--whether signed by KDOT or CDOT.

limon is something of a junction of several roads, and really the only town of any consequence on i-70 in that area. there's also a state correctional facility, and a few other doodads there. for that matter, there's one in burlington too. nothing in eastern colo is much of anything, but there has to be 'something' there...

[wanderer2575]

I-94 in Michigan west of Detroit completely ignores smaller major Michigan municipalities or those with major junctions (ignored both east and west of Detroit, i.e. I-196 in Benton Harbor, I-69 in Marshall, I-696 in Roseville-St. Clair Shores, etc.) it passes through or near on guide signs at major junctions (i.e. Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, etc.) instead opting for either Detroit or Chicago.

Actually, signage at most I-94 interchanges between Marshall and Ann Arbor shows Marshall, Jackson, and Ann Arbor as control cities.


Jackson Road, near Chelsea -- this sign has since been replaced but the control cities have not changed.

[Revive 755]

Limon used by KDOT going west from Hays, KS.  Considering you have Denver, or Burlington across the state line from Kanorado, that is off  kilt for a city going west from anywhere in Kansas, especially from Hays. 

I can see it being used out of Denver going eastward, due to no real good places in Eastern Colorado and Topeka and Kansas City are way too far away at that point. Being it's the first place going east, it seems appropriate in that usage, but west of Hays you even have Goodland, Oakley, and even Colby which have just as much significance as Limon.  Plus its not even a major freeway junction like Benson is in NC, or even two major N-S meeting the interstate, so what significance is Limon to someone heading west across the Plains?

The point where someone heading towards Colorado Springs or Pueblo would get off I-70 and follow US 24?  Not the Colorado appears to do a good job of signing US 24 - I see other states having Exit 359 signed as "To US 24 West/Colorado Springs" rather than another "Limon" exit.

[US 89]

Limon used by KDOT going west from Hays, KS.  Considering you have Denver, or Burlington across the state line from Kanorado, that is off  kilt for a city going west from anywhere in Kansas, especially from Hays. 

I can see it being used out of Denver going eastward, due to no real good places in Eastern Colorado and Topeka and Kansas City are way too far away at that point. Being it's the first place going east, it seems appropriate in that usage, but west of Hays you even have Goodland, Oakley, and even Colby which have just as much significance as Limon.  Plus its not even a major freeway junction like Benson is in NC, or even two major N-S meeting the interstate, so what significance is Limon to someone heading west across the Plains?

The point where someone heading towards Colorado Springs or Pueblo would get off I-70 and follow US 24?  Not the Colorado appears to do a good job of signing US 24 - I see other states having Exit 359 signed as "To US 24 West/Colorado Springs" rather than another "Limon" exit.

If you go back a bit, you'll find a sign saying exactly that:

https://goo.gl/maps/khcxsmEvaCtJpxFZA

[Chrysler375Freeway]

I-94 in Michigan west of Detroit completely ignores smaller major Michigan municipalities or those with major junctions (ignored both east and west of Detroit, i.e. I-196 in Benton Harbor, I-69 in Marshall, I-696 in Roseville-St. Clair Shores, etc.) it passes through or near on guide signs at major junctions (i.e. Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, etc.) instead opting for either Detroit or Chicago.

Actually, signage at most I-94 interchanges between Marshall and Ann Arbor shows Marshall, Jackson, and Ann Arbor as control cities.


Jackson Road, near Chelsea -- this sign has since been replaced but the control cities have not changed.

Marshall and Ann Arbor are omitted on 94 guide signs at Highway 127 Exit 40 and 43. Jackson is omitted on guide signs for I-94 along US 23. Along I-194/M-66 in Battle Creek, Marshall is omitted for I-94 eastbound. At I-69's first junction with I-94, Jackson is omitted for eastbound I-94.

[wanderer2575]

I-94 in Michigan west of Detroit completely ignores smaller major Michigan municipalities or those with major junctions (ignored both east and west of Detroit, i.e. I-196 in Benton Harbor, I-69 in Marshall, I-696 in Roseville-St. Clair Shores, etc.) it passes through or near on guide signs at major junctions (i.e. Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, etc.) instead opting for either Detroit or Chicago.

Actually, signage at most I-94 interchanges between Marshall and Ann Arbor shows Marshall, Jackson, and Ann Arbor as control cities.


Jackson Road, near Chelsea -- this sign has since been replaced but the control cities have not changed.

Marshall and Ann Arbor are omitted on 94 guide signs at Highway 127 Exit 40 and 43. Jackson is omitted on guide signs for I-94 along US 23. Along I-194/M-66 in Battle Creek, Marshall is omitted for I-94 eastbound. At I-69's first junction with I-94, Jackson is omitted for eastbound I-94.

I said at most interchanges.  Great job missing my point.

[Flint1979]

I-94 in Michigan west of Detroit completely ignores smaller major Michigan municipalities or those with major junctions (ignored both east and west of Detroit, i.e. I-196 in Benton Harbor, I-69 in Marshall, I-696 in Roseville-St. Clair Shores, etc.) it passes through or near on guide signs at major junctions (i.e. Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, etc.) instead opting for either Detroit or Chicago.

Actually, signage at most I-94 interchanges between Marshall and Ann Arbor shows Marshall, Jackson, and Ann Arbor as control cities.


Jackson Road, near Chelsea -- this sign has since been replaced but the control cities have not changed.

Marshall and Ann Arbor are omitted on 94 guide signs at Highway 127 Exit 40 and 43. Jackson is omitted on guide signs for I-94 along US 23. Along I-194/M-66 in Battle Creek, Marshall is omitted for I-94 eastbound. At I-69's first junction with I-94, Jackson is omitted for eastbound I-94.

That's because those are major interchanges where Chicago and Detroit are used. Major interchanges are going to have more traffic heading to those cities compared to secondary interchanges.

[hbelkins]

Limon (and the other smaller cities along I-70 between Topeka and Denver) were exhaustively discussed on another thread.

[TXtoNJ]

And as usual, the people saying "Limon" likely haven't driven through that area regularly.

[Scott5114]

And as usual, the people saying "Limon" likely haven't driven through that area regularly.

Or at all. I changed my tune on Limon real quick when I visited Hays a couple of weeks ago.

[ran4sh]

Most of the discussion of control cities on this forum focuses on directional signage (i.e. route XX direction, control city name [e.g. I-70 east, Limon]) but I think some of y'all overlook the role that control cities have for mileage/distance signs (e.g. Limon 65 miles).

Considering that one of the uses of control cities is for distance signs, I'm generally in favor of using larger cities/urban areas as control cities. Instead of knowing that it is 65 miles to Limon, it would be a lot more useful to know the distance to Wichita or even Kansas City.

I'm more familiar with I-81 in Virginia and I dislike the use of Winchester, etc as the control city on distance signs, I'd rather see e.g. Richmond (nb until I-64), Washington (nb until I-66), then Harrisburg PA (I have less of an issue with the SB cities although I think Charlotte NC should be used south of Roanoke until I-77).

[Flint1979]

I'm more familiar with I-81 in Virginia and I dislike the use of Winchester, etc as the control city on distance signs, I'd rather see e.g. Richmond (nb until I-64), Washington (nb until I-66), then Harrisburg PA (I have less of an issue with the SB cities although I think Charlotte NC should be used south of Roanoke until I-77).

I-81 is an Interstate that goes to the Canadian border on the north end and to I-40 in Tennessee on the south end. Why would you use Richmond and Washington as control cities on I-81 when I-81 goes nowhere near those cities? Winchester is fine as a control city on I-81 and much better than Richmond or Washington.

[ran4sh]

Because the Interstate system is a *system* and selection of control cities should not be isolated on a per-route basis. The general idea is that if much of the traffic on a given segment of road is going to a given location, it is appropriate to designate that location as a control city for the route.

(Never mind that, nb going past Roanoke, it's a short distance to the I-64 overlap, at which point the control city of Richmond is completely in compliance with your arbitrary rule about being on the route itself.)

[US 89]

Most of the discussion of control cities on this forum focuses on directional signage (i.e. route XX direction, control city name [e.g. I-70 east, Limon]) but I think some of y'all overlook the role that control cities have for mileage/distance signs (e.g. Limon 65 miles).

Considering that one of the uses of control cities is for distance signs, I'm generally in favor of using larger cities/urban areas as control cities. Instead of knowing that it is 65 miles to Limon, it would be a lot more useful to know the distance to Wichita or even Kansas City.

I'm more familiar with I-81 in Virginia and I dislike the use of Winchester, etc as the control city on distance signs, I'd rather see e.g. Richmond (nb until I-64), Washington (nb until I-66), then Harrisburg PA (I have less of an issue with the SB cities although I think Charlotte NC should be used south of Roanoke until I-77).

Why should the city on directional signage have to match the one on the bottom line of distance signs?

[ran4sh]

I don't necessarily think they should, but those are what is specified as the uses of control cities.

To clarify, the MUTCD specifies those uses in 2E.13 , and the list of control cities is published by AASHTO without any distinction that some cities are for directional signage while others are for distance signage, which implies that those cities should be used for both.

[Mark68]

And as usual, the people saying "Limon" likely haven't driven through that area regularly.

That's the point. Anybody heading east of Denver on I-70 (and every highway on the east side of Denver Metro--I-270, I-225, E-470--points to Limon) is not going TO Limon. Cross-country travelers are going toward Salina, Wichita, Topeka, KC or points east. Why not just say "I-70 East--Kansas City" or at least Topeka? And westbound I-70 in Kansas, why not have Denver (or even Denver/Colorado Springs due to US 24) as the control city(ies)?

I mean, I get that it's an important highway junction--but it was probably more important before the advent of I-70, since it was the crossroads of three fairly important US routes. And I also get that there is nothing else east of Denver or west of (I guess) Salina. But nobody is going to point to Limon as a major stopping point or destination.

No offense to any Limonians on this thread...

[hbelkins]

Going to venture a guess that most people who live in Roanoke (Roanokans?) use US 460 and US 360 with the short state route cutoff to get to Richmond instead of going all the way north to Staunton and then southeast on I-64.

[Flint1979]

Going to venture a guess that most people who live in Roanoke (Roanokans?) use US 460 and US 360 with the short state route cutoff to get to Richmond instead of going all the way north to Staunton and then southeast on I-64.

It's about 10 minutes quicker to take I-81 to I-64 but taking US-460 and US-360 takes off about 25 miles. I think if I'm going to save 25 miles I'll suck up the 10 extra minutes and not worry about it.

[Flint1979]

Because the Interstate system is a *system* and selection of control cities should not be isolated on a per-route basis. The general idea is that if much of the traffic on a given segment of road is going to a given location, it is appropriate to designate that location as a control city for the route.

(Never mind that, nb going past Roanoke, it's a short distance to the I-64 overlap, at which point the control city of Richmond is completely in compliance with your arbitrary rule about being on the route itself.)

I don't think the majority of traffic on I-81 is even going to Richmond and if they are they will use I-64 which uses Richmond as a control city to get there. Richmond is over 100 miles from I-81 and Washington is over 70 miles from I-81 it makes no sense to use either city.

Virginia should use Bristol, Roanoke, Harrisonburg, Winchester and Hagerstown on I-81

[Scott5114]

Instead of knowing that it is 65 miles to Limon, it would be a lot more useful to know the distance to Wichita or even Kansas City.

Good luck getting to Kansas City without stopping in Limon or Hays. Maybe if you brought sandwiches and a hundred-gallon gas tank.