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Author Topic: Illinois Tollway Notes  (Read 105880 times)

paulthemapguy

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #975 on: December 11, 2019, 04:29:05 PM »

The guy in that second video said the same thing 10 times.  If you took a shot for every time he said the word "develop," you'd end up in the hospital.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #976 on: February 10, 2020, 09:27:13 PM »

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/transportation/ct-biz-illinois-tollway-mile-long-bridge-beams-20200210-nb3kabu7mncwlbc3sh7kj7qtee-story.html#nt=oft-Double%20Chain~Flex%20Feature~top-news-curated-chain~getting-around-mon-515a~~1~yes-art~curated~curatedpage

The precast 187 foot long concrete beams for the new Mile Long Bridge on the Tri-State are beginning to be delivered from their production point in Janesville, WI

The Tribune article highlights the delivery route is I-90E->I-290E->I-355S->I-80E->I-57N->I-294N to the 83rd St Toll Plaza, which is being used as a staging area (I’m guessing the median between the Cash lanes and the I-Pass ORT lanes)

Is the out of the way route due to the oversized load? Would there be height or turn radius issues, simply going I-90E->I-294S? Or maybe just so the beams end up on the Northbound side of the road, being delivered to the 83rd St Toll Plaza staging area?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 09:35:42 PM by ilpt4u »
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Brandon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #977 on: February 11, 2020, 12:26:37 PM »

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/transportation/ct-biz-illinois-tollway-mile-long-bridge-beams-20200210-nb3kabu7mncwlbc3sh7kj7qtee-story.html#nt=oft-Double%20Chain~Flex%20Feature~top-news-curated-chain~getting-around-mon-515a~~1~yes-art~curated~curatedpage

The precast 187 foot long concrete beams for the new Mile Long Bridge on the Tri-State are beginning to be delivered from their production point in Janesville, WI

The Tribune article highlights the delivery route is I-90E->I-290E->I-355S->I-80E->I-57N->I-294N to the 83rd St Toll Plaza, which is being used as a staging area (I’m guessing the median between the Cash lanes and the I-Pass ORT lanes)

Is the out of the way route due to the oversized load? Would there be height or turn radius issues, simply going I-90E->I-294S? Or maybe just so the beams end up on the Northbound side of the road, being delivered to the 83rd St Toll Plaza staging area?

It's probably to keep the beams on the same side of the Tri-State they're being used on.  The new Mile-Long Bridge is being built parallel and east of the current one.  All of the turns on this route are fairly easy as well.
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #978 on: February 11, 2020, 04:30:23 PM »

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/transportation/ct-biz-illinois-tollway-mile-long-bridge-beams-20200210-nb3kabu7mncwlbc3sh7kj7qtee-story.html#nt=oft-Double%20Chain~Flex%20Feature~top-news-curated-chain~getting-around-mon-515a~~1~yes-art~curated~curatedpage

The precast 187 foot long concrete beams for the new Mile Long Bridge on the Tri-State are beginning to be delivered from their production point in Janesville, WI

The Tribune article highlights the delivery route is I-90E->I-290E->I-355S->I-80E->I-57N->I-294N to the 83rd St Toll Plaza, which is being used as a staging area (I’m guessing the median between the Cash lanes and the I-Pass ORT lanes)

Is the out of the way route due to the oversized load? Would there be height or turn radius issues, simply going I-90E->I-294S? Or maybe just so the beams end up on the Northbound side of the road, being delivered to the 83rd St Toll Plaza staging area?

It's probably to keep the beams on the same side of the Tri-State they're being used on.  The new Mile-Long Bridge is being built parallel and east of the current one.  All of the turns on this route are fairly easy as well.

Hopefully those guide cars don't lose track of the directions or load like they tend to do in Indiana. :)
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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #979 on: February 16, 2020, 12:00:17 PM »

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/glenview/ct-gla-village-marriott-land-donation-tl-0213-20200213-d3zdbi3nkbfovclfstbfmzhq44-story.html#nt=oft-Triple%20Chain~Recommender~~suburbs-rec~~2~yes-art~automated~curatedpage

Apparently Glenview and a Marriott Hotel in Glenview really want a Milwaukee Ave/IL 21 exit off the Tri-State. The hotel is donating property adjacent to the tollway to Glenview, and Glenview will begin commissioning engineering studies and working with IDOT and ISTHA to make this happen. Article says probably at least 5 years away from an interchange at this point, tho

This is not to be confused with the existing Tri-State and Milwaukee Ave interchange further north in Gurnee
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #980 on: February 16, 2020, 08:00:59 PM »

likely to be I-pass only one (it should be an free exit)
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #981 on: February 18, 2020, 08:08:48 PM »

likely to be I-pass only one (it should be an free exit)

Why would it be free? It'd be great if it was, but its the Tollway.
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #982 on: February 18, 2020, 08:33:15 PM »

likely to be I-pass only one (it should be an free exit)

Why would it be free? It'd be great if it was, but its the Tollway.

Well, northbound, the exit before and the exit after IL-21 are both free, so being free would fit the scheme. This is not true southbound, though, where the exit before and the exit after both cost 1.90$, or 0.95$ with I-Pass.
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nwi_navigator_1181

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #983 on: February 18, 2020, 11:22:04 PM »

So the Mile Long Bridge on I-294 will be a complete relocation-replacement instead of a repair and annex? That shift will be weird once it’s all done.

Speaking of which, when will all of this go down?
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #984 on: February 19, 2020, 01:53:47 AM »

So the Mile Long Bridge on I-294 will be a complete relocation-replacement instead of a repair and annex? That shift will be weird once it’s all done.

Speaking of which, when will all of this go down?

So, the northbound span will go down sometime in 2021 once all of the northbound traffic is on the new span. The southbound span will remain on the original bridge until sometime in 2023 where all of the southbound traffic will go on the new southbound bridge on where the northbound span is currently standing.

Here is a link to the phases of the Mile Long Bridge Replacement Project:
https://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/20184/656157/2019_CTri-OpenHouseBoards_Landscape_WEB_MLB_PBR.pdf/c4fbe752-cea3-4cf6-af35-42e443568f45
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 01:59:04 AM by Great Lakes Roads »
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lstone19

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #985 on: February 19, 2020, 06:20:08 PM »

So the Mile Long Bridge on I-294 will be a complete relocation-replacement instead of a repair and annex? That shift will be weird once it’s all done.
f which, when will all of this go down?

When done, I doubt there will be any noticeable shift. I would expect the curves at each end to reworked so that you will never notice the change.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #986 on: February 20, 2020, 01:23:08 PM »

new high voltage power poles are going up on I-294 by I-290
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lstone19

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #987 on: February 20, 2020, 02:21:16 PM »

likely to be I-pass only one (it should be an free exit)

Why would it be free? It'd be great if it was, but its the Tollway.

Well, northbound, the exit before and the exit after IL-21 are both free, so being free would fit the scheme. This is not true southbound, though, where the exit before and the exit after both cost 1.90$, or 0.95$ with I-Pass.

Unfortunately, any logic of tolling seems to have left the Illinois Tollway long ago. These days, they seem to justify additional ramp tolls as a cost for adding or improving the ramp so I expect there will be a toll. I used to think there were three fundamental rules of tolling that a well-run toll road would follow:
1) After paying a toll, there should be at least one opportunity to exit without paying an additional toll
2) The toll for going father should be the same or higher than the previous exit
3) Tolls should be symmetric - the toll for going from A to B should be the same as from B to A (I'll make an exception for one-way tolls provided it's then not used as an excuse to work in a stealth increase)

The Illinois Tollway violates these all over the system.
1) Enter I-90 EB at IL-47 (Huntley) and you pay a toll entering and then pay a toll either to exit at Randall Rd. or at the Elgin mainline plaza. Likewise, enter I-90 EB at IL-25 (Elgin) and you pay a toll entering and encounter a toll at every possible exit or pay at the O'Hare complex.

2) They made a mess of this when they eliminated the Deerfield Plaza. Heading south on I-294, pay $0.95 (I-Pass rate) to exit anywhere from the Edens Spur to Golf Road but then pay only $0.75 at the O'Hare complex. Others: EB on I-90, pay $0.45 to exit at Barrington Road or Roselle Road or stay on and pay only $0.30 at I-290. Or WB on I-90, pay $0.30 to exit at Huntley or stay on the US 20 at the Hampshire/Marengo exit and pay nothing.

3) I-90 is a mess on symmetry going back to when the removed the WB entry toll at I-290 and then added exit tolls west of there. A regular trip I make - IL-59 to US20 (Marengo/Hampshire) is $0.75 WB but $1.05 EB. And again with the Deerfield Plaza elimination, exiting the O'Hare complex northbound is $0.95 but any other direction in $0.75 so any trip from I-294/I-94 north of the O'Hare complex to O'Hare or points south, east, or west pays less SB than NB.

In addition, when the went to one-way tolls at the Hampshire and Belvedere plazas, initially things were unchanged for someone making a round-trip. Someone exiting at Genoa Rd (either direction) paid nothing getting to Genoa Rd but paid a double-toll going back so the same as when it was a single toll each way. But then someone in the Tollway brain trust decided that people exiting at Genoa Rd. were getting a free-ride so they added an exit toll there and now someone pays the exit toll heading to Genoa Rd. and then the double-toll on the way back, a net increase for them. So much for the Tollway's statement IIRC that the one-way tolling wouldn't result in a net toll increase.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #988 on: February 20, 2020, 08:56:07 PM »

likely to be I-pass only one (it should be an free exit)

Why would it be free? It'd be great if it was, but its the Tollway.

Well, northbound, the exit before and the exit after IL-21 are both free, so being free would fit the scheme. This is not true southbound, though, where the exit before and the exit after both cost 1.90$, or 0.95$ with I-Pass.

Unfortunately, any logic of tolling seems to have left the Illinois Tollway long ago. These days, they seem to justify additional ramp tolls as a cost for adding or improving the ramp so I expect there will be a toll. I used to think there were three fundamental rules of tolling that a well-run toll road would follow:
1) After paying a toll, there should be at least one opportunity to exit without paying an additional toll
2) The toll for going father should be the same or higher than the previous exit
3) Tolls should be symmetric - the toll for going from A to B should be the same as from B to A (I'll make an exception for one-way tolls provided it's then not used as an excuse to work in a stealth increase)

The Illinois Tollway violates these all over the system.
1) Enter I-90 EB at IL-47 (Huntley) and you pay a toll entering and then pay a toll either to exit at Randall Rd. or at the Elgin mainline plaza. Likewise, enter I-90 EB at IL-25 (Elgin) and you pay a toll entering and encounter a toll at every possible exit or pay at the O'Hare complex.

2) They made a mess of this when they eliminated the Deerfield Plaza. Heading south on I-294, pay $0.95 (I-Pass rate) to exit anywhere from the Edens Spur to Golf Road but then pay only $0.75 at the O'Hare complex. Others: EB on I-90, pay $0.45 to exit at Barrington Road or Roselle Road or stay on and pay only $0.30 at I-290. Or WB on I-90, pay $0.30 to exit at Huntley or stay on the US 20 at the Hampshire/Marengo exit and pay nothing.

3) I-90 is a mess on symmetry going back to when the removed the WB entry toll at I-290 and then added exit tolls west of there. A regular trip I make - IL-59 to US20 (Marengo/Hampshire) is $0.75 WB but $1.05 EB. And again with the Deerfield Plaza elimination, exiting the O'Hare complex northbound is $0.95 but any other direction in $0.75 so any trip from I-294/I-94 north of the O'Hare complex to O'Hare or points south, east, or west pays less SB than NB.

In addition, when the went to one-way tolls at the Hampshire and Belvedere plazas, initially things were unchanged for someone making a round-trip. Someone exiting at Genoa Rd (either direction) paid nothing getting to Genoa Rd but paid a double-toll going back so the same as when it was a single toll each way. But then someone in the Tollway brain trust decided that people exiting at Genoa Rd. were getting a free-ride so they added an exit toll there and now someone pays the exit toll heading to Genoa Rd. and then the double-toll on the way back, a net increase for them. So much for the Tollway's statement IIRC that the one-way tolling wouldn't result in a net toll increase.
Maybe when they get rid of cash they can go ETR 407 or maybe lots of toll points like the EOE
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lstone19

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #989 on: February 20, 2020, 10:58:56 PM »

Maybe when they get rid of cash they can go ETR 407 or maybe lots of toll points like the EOE

Better would be to track every entry and exit and charge for the actual mile traveled. That would get rid of some of the inequities such as someone heading south from Gurnee to I-290 pays only $0.75 at the O'Hare complex, then pays another $0.75 for just four miles to Ogden Ave. (on I-294, the span of the O'Hare complex tolls is all the way from Gurnee  to Hillside (I-290) while the Cermak Rd. plaza can only get you those four miles from I-290 to Ogden Ave. - a huge difference in price per mile).
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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #990 on: February 21, 2020, 04:57:27 AM »

Southbound, the distances between the O’Hare, Cermak, and 82nd St Tolls are pretty short, especially O’Hare and Cermak

I am not sure how much effort it would take to “redesign” the barrier system to make Cermak Northbound Only, tho. Part of the reason Cermak toll is where it is relates to the nearby junctions of I-88 and I-290. But now with Cashless tolling, any interchange adjustments would not necessarily need cash lanes - just I-Pass/E-ZPass readers and license plate readers
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mgk920

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #991 on: February 21, 2020, 10:09:31 AM »

Maybe when they get rid of cash they can go ETR 407 or maybe lots of toll points like the EOE

Better would be to track every entry and exit and charge for the actual mile traveled. That would get rid of some of the inequities such as someone heading south from Gurnee to I-290 pays only $0.75 at the O'Hare complex, then pays another $0.75 for just four miles to Ogden Ave. (on I-294, the span of the O'Hare complex tolls is all the way from Gurnee  to Hillside (I-290) while the Cermak Rd. plaza can only get you those four miles from I-290 to Ogden Ave. - a huge difference in price per mile).

Isn't that how the guys who run ON 407 do it?

Mike
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lstone19

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #992 on: February 21, 2020, 11:51:43 AM »

Maybe when they get rid of cash they can go ETR 407 or maybe lots of toll points like the EOE

Better would be to track every entry and exit and charge for the actual mile traveled. That would get rid of some of the inequities such as someone heading south from Gurnee to I-290 pays only $0.75 at the O'Hare complex, then pays another $0.75 for just four miles to Ogden Ave. (on I-294, the span of the O'Hare complex tolls is all the way from Gurnee  to Hillside (I-290) while the Cermak Rd. plaza can only get you those four miles from I-290 to Ogden Ave. - a huge difference in price per mile).

Isn't that how the guys who run ON 407 do it?

Mike

Yes, you are correct as I now recall my one and only trip on the 407. I was responding to your "maybe lots of toll points like the EOE" which would also work if they did it right which they did not with the EOE (and where we live, we are really affected by it). As announced, the EOE was supposed to be $0.20 per mile (I-Pass). But unlike the rest where there is a toll plaza between each entrance and exit, going west from I-290, there is no toll between I-290 and Meacham/Medinah Rd. and then a toll between Meacham/Medinah and Roselle Rd. that charges you for three miles ($0.60) even though that distance is only two miles. I have not entered the EOE WB or exited EB at Meacham/Medinah since the tolls started as it's not worth it (particularly as we live just west of Roselle Rd. so that would be the other end of the journey).
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lstone19

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #993 on: February 21, 2020, 12:09:19 PM »

Southbound, the distances between the O’Hare, Cermak, and 82nd St Tolls are pretty short, especially O’Hare and Cermak

I am not sure how much effort it would take to “redesign” the barrier system to make Cermak Northbound Only, tho. Part of the reason Cermak toll is where it is relates to the nearby junctions of I-88 and I-290. But now with Cashless tolling, any interchange adjustments would not necessarily need cash lanes - just I-Pass/E-ZPass readers and license plate readers

The short distance between tolls doesn't bother me so much as the short "zone" of the toll plaza ("zone" being the first point you can enter without a ramp toll, pay the barrier toll, and then exit without a ramp toll). Cermak, along with the York and Myers plazas on I-88, are part of the same toll zone, which is Ogden to I-290 (Hillside) on I-294 and out to IL-59 on I-88. It's decently long on I-88 but I-294 users pay a high cost per mile.

But the O'Hare complex zone (including all four mainline barriers in the O'Hare complex including the ones on I-90) is huge. As a kid in the 60's, it was saner. The O'Hare zone was I-290 (Hillside) to Dempster St. on I-294 and the Kennedy to Barrington Rd (which had no ramp tolls to/from the east back then and was a half-interchange which paired with the half-interchange at IL-59 formed the boundary between the O'Hare and Elgin toll zones) while the Deerfield plaza zone was Golf Rd. (Golf and Dempster were both half-interchanges which together formed the zone boundary) up to Gurnee (ignore the short free movement possible between Milwaukee Ave. and Grand Ave. in Gurnee). But now since the elimination of the Deerfield Plaza and some changes to the I-90 tolls, the O'Hare toll zone is I-290 (Hillside) to Grand Ave. in Gurnee and on I-90 WB from the Kennedy only to I-290 (Schaumburg) but EB from Beverly Rd. to the Kennedy.  So for $0.75, I can go the four miles from Ogden Ave. to I-290 (Hillside) - $0.19/mile - or for $0.95 the 55 miles from Beverly Rd. to Grand Av - less than $0.02/mile.
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JoePCool14

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #994 on: February 24, 2020, 09:44:37 AM »

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/glenview/ct-gla-village-marriott-land-donation-tl-0213-20200213-d3zdbi3nkbfovclfstbfmzhq44-story.html#nt=oft-Triple%20Chain~Recommender~~suburbs-rec~~2~yes-art~automated~curatedpage

Apparently Glenview and a Marriott Hotel in Glenview really want a Milwaukee Ave/IL 21 exit off the Tri-State. The hotel is donating property adjacent to the tollway to Glenview, and Glenview will begin commissioning engineering studies and working with IDOT and ISTHA to make this happen. Article says probably at least 5 years away from an interchange at this point, tho

This is not to be confused with the existing Tri-State and Milwaukee Ave interchange further north in Gurnee

I think this would be a worthy idea. I've always thought there was a decently large gap between Willow and Golf and that considering Milwaukee Ave is an angled street, it would make for a good exit for points southeast. Glenview doesn't really have an ideal exit off 294 either, and this could help with that too. I wonder if the exit would be full access or not though.
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #995 on: February 24, 2020, 08:57:10 PM »

Upgrade palatine road
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #996 on: February 25, 2020, 08:38:32 AM »

Upgrade palatine road

Unlikely to happen. If anything, they probably would be best suited to remove the half finished express local system on there and turn it into a standard boulevard, something along the lines of North Avenue between Elmhurst and St. Charles, while maybe retaining the limited access section near the Chicago Executive (or Palwaukee, for those of us who are old school) Airport.

As for the exit on Milwaukee and 294, I get the feeling it would only be NB off and SB on, and I have trouble seeing where they would fit a full interchange there. Even with that, it would be a notable improvement in the area.
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #997 on: March 13, 2020, 11:40:07 PM »

The Illinois Tollway announced it will temporarily implement all-electronic tolling as a precaution to limit the potential spread of coronavirus to customers, as well as Tollway employees, until futher notice.
https://www.wifr.com/content/news/Illinois-Tollway-to-implement-all-electronic-tolling-568787871.html?fbclid=IwAR0kA4iePzw3an24zhmMbdh7pvJw_0zCi_nDf7BH4r9QRS1mV4ResyjLAvo
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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #998 on: March 14, 2020, 12:34:17 AM »

The Illinois Tollway announced it will temporarily implement all-electronic tolling as a precaution to limit the potential spread of coronavirus to customers, as well as Tollway employees, until futher notice.
https://www.wifr.com/content/news/Illinois-Tollway-to-implement-all-electronic-tolling-568787871.html?fbclid=IwAR0kA4iePzw3an24zhmMbdh7pvJw_0zCi_nDf7BH4r9QRS1mV4ResyjLAvo
Will they wave fees / just bill by mail for tolls only (no points, no penaltys) say some forgets the name of each tolling point? also if works out good move make the system all ETC SOONER vs later?

Will rent a car wave the per day admin fees for tolls with some can't really pay on line as missed tolls just go to the rent a car plate system.
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JREwing78

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Re: Illinois Tollway Notes
« Reply #999 on: March 14, 2020, 02:47:18 PM »

The Illinois Tollway announced it will temporarily implement all-electronic tolling as a precaution to limit the potential spread of coronavirus to customers, as well as Tollway employees, until futher notice.
https://www.wifr.com/content/news/Illinois-Tollway-to-implement-all-electronic-tolling-568787871.html?fbclid=IwAR0kA4iePzw3an24zhmMbdh7pvJw_0zCi_nDf7BH4r9QRS1mV4ResyjLAvo
Will they wave fees / just bill by mail for tolls only (no points, no penaltys) say some forgets the name of each tolling point? also if works out good move make the system all ETC SOONER vs later?

They have a website that calculates all that:
https://www.illinoistollway.com/web/guest#UnpaidToll

More info on how it works:
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