Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[sprjus4]

it is with the proposed highway project.

The fact NCDOT wants to upgrade 80 miles of US-17 to interstate standards to link Eastern NC to Norfolk, Raleigh & I-95 South? What's the issue if NCDOT wants to upgrade -their- highway to benefit -their- counties & cities up that way?

It's quite obvious they're not dropping I-87 at this point just because a few posters on a road forum oppose the project because "it's not the most direct route through Virginia (which VDOT would never build anyways)" or "the towns are way to small to warrant an interstate". I could say the same for a lot of rural interstate highways. Oh, but those are "long-distance" routes. Couldn't the same be said for US-17? It can be long-distance highway, and may become more attractive of a route for more traffic once I-87 is completed for traffic bound to Wilmington, Myrtle Beach, etc. as opposed to heading inland to I-95. And what if they decide to upgrade US-17 even farther south of Williamston? It's all vanity, right? Progress is continuing on this highway. They just put new I-87 signs up in Raleigh this past week, and there's long-range plans to get the entire route completed by 2040.

What's going to happen if this actually is built over the next 20 years and it gets done? Is it the argument then going to be "oh, it was overbuilt, the four-lane highway was fine"? Just like the current argument, it's going to get overlooked really quick.

Couldn't you argue other highways in NC are also overbuilt? Four-lane freeways not carrying much volumes, etc. But I'm sure some excuse will be drafted together that will somehow make those highways acceptable, but I-87 is complete vanity.

Ahh... I just don't see the issue with NCDOT building it, signing it, and hey if you hate, avoid it. Is overbuilding something bad? You argued I-81 was over-built because it had 4-lanes as opposed to 2-lanes in the past, and while it didn't warrant it then, it clearly does now. You don't how that area will look 10-15 years after I-87 is built. It could become a booming region. It could fail. Who knows. But it's a big opportunity, and it's one NCDOT and Eastern NC is willing to try to grow the area.

Look at Wilmington, NC. It had a population of 30,000 - 50,000 between 1920 - 1990. Once I-40 was built down that way, the population had a rapid increase, and that area exploded. It now has a population of 120,000, a 140% increase. Clearly the interstate had some impact. The cities & counties between New Bern and Morehead City on the I-42 corridor have high hopes the same will happen there, and the same could happen to Northeastern NC, especially around Camden County and Elizabeth City, which are growing areas. Elizabeth City has a population of 20,000, and by 2050 could be up to 60,000, and their could be extensive suburban development up the built-out I-87 corridor leading into Virginia, and the population way higher than today.

Nobody knows, just because it's "not warranted" today, it could bring a lot of potential 10-20 years after it's built, and rapidly change the area.

But I guess it's "vanity" and "baloney" because it's not needed -today-, and that are will -never- grow, and if they want to take a shot, nope, because some posters on a roads forum oppose it. Clearly nothing on this forum has swayed any decisions about I-87, and it's highly unlikely it will ever.

[Beltway]

it is with the proposed highway project.

The fact NCDOT wants to upgrade 80 miles of US-17 to interstate standards to link Eastern NC to Norfolk, Raleigh & I-95 South? What's the issue if NCDOT wants to upgrade -their- highway to benefit -their- counties & cities up that way?

Energy creature.

[bob7374]

NCDOT has moved back the letting of 2 pavement rehabilitation projects in Martin County that would bring the shoulders of US 64 to interstate standards for I-87 from this September to March 2020 because of 'strategic letting'. Other new changes to the letting dates of STIP projects can be found in the June changes report:
https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/12%20Month%20Tentative%20Letting%20Library/JUNE%202019%20CHANGES%20REPORT.pdf

[sprjus4]

NCDOT has moved back the letting of 2 pavement rehabilitation projects in Martin County that would bring the shoulders of US 64 to interstate standards for I-87 from this September to March 2020 because of 'strategic letting'. Other new changes to the letting dates of STIP projects can be found in the June changes report:
https://connect.ncdot.gov/letting/12%20Month%20Tentative%20Letting%20Library/JUNE%202019%20CHANGES%20REPORT.pdf

I think that stretch is a mere resurfacing. None of the "pavement rehabilitation" projects actually involve widening the shoulders. It simply repaves the mainline lanes. Other stretches of US-64 were recently repaved, and no shoulder was added. And this was after I-87 was announced.

Either way though, that stretch you mentioned above was built in the late 90s, and already meets interstate standards, having 12 foot lanes, and 10 foot paved shoulders. All of US-64 east of Tarboro (all built 1996 - 2004) meets interstate standards (where this stretch is), whereas the stretch west of there (built in the 70s & 80s) only have 4 foot shoulders, going all the way to Raleigh.

The project near New Bern happening on US-70 right now is another story, that project is actually specifically designed to widen the shoulders, and bring that stretch to interstate standards.

EDIT - Actually, I could be mistaken. A project on US-264 to resurface also is including widening the shoulders to meet interstate standards per NCDOT, similar to the current project on I-42 near New Bern. But still, the stretch that was delayed until 2020 already meets interstate standards, it's those rural stretches west of Tarboro that actually need it. Raleigh to I-95 should be the first stretch of US-64 actually designated as I-87, then continuing east to US-17 and Virginia after that.

[sprjus4]

For those of you that want to see some random guy's plans for I-87, here you go. 

I-885 is going to handle parts of that area so I'm sure that's not going to happen. Maybe when 70 gets complete in the Durham area but the maps show that it's going to be built as an "expressway design".

"http://rsbodnar.tripod.com/I-54_proposal.gif"

Don't let Beltway see this 

I think you should post these new routing idea concepts in the Fictional Highways forum, not on these. The Fictional Highways forum is meant for things like this, while these threads are meant to actually be related to the actual interstate itself, and real proposals and plans, not fictional concepts.

[tolbs17]

For those of you that want to see some random guy's plans for I-87, here you go. 

I-885 is going to handle parts of that area so I'm sure that's not going to happen. Maybe when 70 gets complete in the Durham area but the maps show that it's going to be built as an "expressway design".

"http://rsbodnar.tripod.com/I-54_proposal.gif"

Don't let Beltway see this 

I think you should post these new routing idea concepts in the Fictional Highways forum, not on these. The Fictional Highways forum is meant for things like this, while these threads are meant to actually be related to the actual interstate itself, and real proposals and plans, not fictional concepts.

Alright

[Beltway]

Don't let Beltway see this 

I can see that you are pretty angry about something ... 

[Alps]

Don't let Beltway see this 

I can see that you are pretty angry about something ... 

Pot, kettle

[sprjus4]

Don't let Beltway see this 

I can see that you are pretty angry about something ... 

Your heavy opposition to the I-87 proposal speaks the same. Most people against the concept aren't as heavily invested as you are in "tearing"  apart the proposal. Based on how you've "torn"  apart the feasibility study with no actual facts backing it, I can't imagine how you'll get once the NEPA process begins.

I think you're the one pretty angry about something... 

[Beltway]

Don't let Beltway see this 

I can see that you are pretty angry about something ... 

Pot, kettle

Back at you.  He's following me around, making all kinds of angry comments, all because I criticized his precious VI-87.  The gratuitous unprovoked comment above.  Now trying to start arguments about whether a lane is 11 feet or 12 feet.  Coming up with strategies to defend his avatar highway. 

How about the one where he culled my past comments and found that I was an inspector on the upgrade projects in southside Virginia to make the 4-lane US-301 into I-95, saying how can you support that and not support making a 4-lane corridor into VI-87?  Logical fallacy city.

You seem to think that his flatulence is odorless and noiseless, and that when he vomits that pixie dust comes out and smells like roses.

[sprjus4]

Don't let Beltway see this 

I can see that you are pretty angry about something ... 

Pot, kettle

Back at you.  He's following me around, making all kinds of angry comments, all because I criticized his precious VI-87.  The gratuitous unprovoked comment above.  Now trying to start arguments about whether a lane is 11 feet or 12 feet.  Coming up with strategies to defend his avatar highway. 

How about the one where he culled my past comments and found that I was an inspector on the upgrade projects in southside Virginia to make the 4-lane US-301 into I-95, saying how can you support that and not support making a 4-lane corridor into VI-87?  Logical fallacy city.

You seem to think that his flatulence is odorless and noiseless, and that when he vomits that pixie dust comes out and smells like roses.

I think you're getting pretty angry about something...

[Beltway]

Don't let Beltway see this 

I can see that you are pretty angry about something ... 

Pot, kettle

Back at you.  He's following me around, making all kinds of angry comments, all because I criticized his precious VI-87.  The gratuitous unprovoked comment above.  Now trying to start arguments about whether a lane is 11 feet or 12 feet.  Coming up with strategies to defend his avatar highway. 
How about the one where he culled my past comments and found that I was an inspector on the upgrade projects in southside Virginia to make the 4-lane US-301 into I-95, saying how can you support that and not support making a 4-lane corridor into VI-87?  Logical fallacy city.
You seem to think that his flatulence is odorless and noiseless, and that when he vomits that pixie dust comes out and smells like roses.

I think you're getting pretty angry about something...

You need to discuss this with your psychiatrist when you meet with him this week.

[NE2]

You need to discuss this with your psychiatrist when you meet with him this week.

Why would you need to see a psychiatrist every week? You'd be much more likely to visit a therapist or psychologist.

[Beltway]

You need to discuss this with your psychiatrist when you meet with him this week.

Why would you need to see a psychiatrist every week? You'd be much more likely to visit a therapist or psychologist.

So are you saying that a psychiatrist wouldn't provide psychotherapy for a patient on a weekly basis?

[NE2]

You need to discuss this with your psychiatrist when you meet with him this week.

Why would you need to see a psychiatrist every week? You'd be much more likely to visit a therapist or psychologist.

So are you saying that a psychiatrist wouldn't provide psychotherapy for a patient on a weekly basis?

A therapist would be much more likely to provide therapy.

[Beltway]

You need to discuss this with your psychiatrist when you meet with him this week.

Why would you need to see a psychiatrist every week? You'd be much more likely to visit a therapist or psychologist.

So are you saying that a psychiatrist wouldn't provide psychotherapy for a patient on a weekly basis?

A therapist would be much more likely to provide therapy.

Is this an accurate description?

A psychiatrist is a physician who specializes in psychiatry, the branch of medicine devoted to the diagnosis, prevention, study, and treatment of mental disorders.  Psychiatrists are medical doctors, unlike psychologists, and must evaluate patients to determine whether their symptoms are the result of a physical illness, a combination of physical and mental ailments, or strictly psychiatric.  A psychiatrist usually works as the clinical leader of the multi-disciplinary team, which may comprise psychologists, social workers, occupational therapists and nursing staff.  Psychiatrists have broad training in a bio-psycho-social approach to assessment and management of mental illness.

As part of the clinical assessment process, psychiatrists may employ a mental status examination; a physical examination; brain imaging such as a computerized tomography (CT), magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), or positron emission tomography (PET) scan; and blood testing.  Psychiatrists prescribe medicine, and may also use psychotherapy, although the vast majority do medical management and refer to a psychologist or other specialized therapist for weekly to bi-monthly psychotherapy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatrist

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe we all could use some therapy. In the meantime, let's get back to discussing North Carolina's Interstate 87.

[sprjus4]

He's following me around, making all kinds of angry comments, all because I criticized his precious VI-87. 

I-87 comments aren't even the reason I disagree with you on issues... each subject is independent, most don't relate to I-87 to begin with, and I may throw in a joke here and there, but I don't "disagree or make angry comments" on issues you support just because of the I-87 disagreement.

[bob7374]

Maybe we all could use some therapy. In the meantime, let's get back to discussing North Carolina's Interstate 87.

Happily. A perusal of NCDOT traffic cameras this morning shows they have placed the new exit number gore signs along the Knightdale Bypass, or at least at New Hope Road and I-540 heading North/East.

[bob7374]

I have added photos taken along I-87 South courtesy of David Johnson showing the near completion of the sign replacement project along the US 64/264 Knightdale Bypass, which includes new pull throughs at the I-440 exit:


The rest of the photos are towards the bottom of the Future I-87 in NC webpage:
http://www.malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut87.html#photos

[sprjus4]

I have added photos taken along I-87 South courtesy of David Johnson showing the near completion of the sign replacement project along the US 64/264 Knightdale Bypass, which includes new pull throughs at the I-440 exit:

The rest of the photos are towards the bottom of the Future I-87 in NC webpage:
http://www.malmeroads.net/ncfutints/fut87.html#photos

Nice! Hopefully Google Maps will update the exit numbers now that they've all been changed. Waze has already had them updated for a little while now.

Those mile markers on your website are an older design indeed... weird to see them being used new. At least they updated the mile markers to begin with - I was expecting them to leave the old ones.

It seems that stretch has now been fully changed to I-87 - New signage, new mile markers, new exit numbers, etc. I'm assuming signage at all of the interchanges has also been changed finally. The next phase now is to widen US-64 / US-264 to 6-lanes between I-87 and the split, then extend the designation north (east) to the split assuming that stretch is being designed to meet interstate standards with full left and right shoulders.

[fillup420]

I was talking to my boss, a longtime resident of Raleigh, about all the road work done around there over the years. He said no one understands why they keep changing the highway numbers every 10 years or so. Up until recently, BGSs on I-40 were confusing and inconsistent due to all the number shuffling. Route shields would be removed from one sign and just slapped up on another wherever they fit. I-440 was still sparsely signed along 40 even though it technically wasn't. US 64 shields could still be found along Western Blvd since it has been removed, added back, and re-removed. Despite becoming I-495 and now I-87, locals still call it "64"  or the Knightdale bypass. Its also a running joke that this strange new I-87 doesn't go anywhere.

[sprjus4]

Its also a running joke that this strange new I-87 doesn't go anywhere.

That's how new interstate highways work. It was the same way when they were popping up in the 50s and 60s. They ran short courses. Once it's completed, it will run a slightly indirect path between Raleigh and the Virginia state line on US-17 north of Elizabeth City, and if Virginia chooses to pursue an extension to Hampton Roads, all the way to I-64 / I-464 / VA-168.

But I get the joke. It terminates after 13 miles. Another 10 miles will be added once US-64 is expanded to 6-lanes all the way to the US-264 split. Once the US-64 freeway beyond there is given wider shoulders, and in some areas full reconstruction with new bridges, etc, I-87 will run from Raleigh to Williamston. And then further once US-17 is upgraded to the Virginia state line.

[jcarte29]

Its also a running joke that this strange new I-87 doesn't go anywhere.

That's how new interstate highways work. It was the same way when they were popping up in the 50s and 60s. They ran short courses. Once it's completed, it will run a slightly indirect path between Raleigh and the Virginia state line on US-17 north of Elizabeth City, and if Virginia chooses to pursue an extension to Hampton Roads, all the way to I-64 / I-464 / VA-168.

But I get the joke. It terminates after 13 miles. Another 10 miles will be added once US-64 is expanded to 6-lanes all the way to the US-264 split. Once the US-64 freeway beyond there is given wider shoulders, and in some areas full reconstruction with new bridges, etc, I-87 will run from Raleigh to Williamston. And then further once US-17 is upgraded to the Virginia state line.

Realizing it was only a temporary placeholder in hindsight, I-495, to me, was the running joke lol.

[Beltway]

Its also a running joke that this strange new I-87 doesn't go anywhere.

That's how new interstate highways work. It was the same way when they were popping up in the 50s and 60s. They ran short courses.

No, it was very different.  They were building a national network that was well funded and were opening new highways in 30 and 50 mile segments all over the country.  70% of a 42,500 mile system was opened by 1970.

The 320 miles of PA I-80 was entirely completed in 1970, just to give one example of many.  The 325 miles of VA I-81 was 90% completed by 1968.

Once it's completed, it will run a slightly indirect path between Raleigh and the Virginia state line on US-17 north of Elizabeth City, and if Virginia chooses to pursue an extension to Hampton Roads, all the way to I-64 / I-464 / VA-168.

Not "slightly indirect", but enough so that it cannot/willnot be considered a connector between Raleigh and Norfolk (sorry roadgeeks).