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Author Topic: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?  (Read 2123 times)

corco

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Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« on: December 27, 2016, 09:39:46 PM »

So, in light of today being AARoads Idaho day, I've noticed a persistent error across the internet - on AARoads, Wikipedia, Google Maps, and OSM!

With four reputable sites stating what seems wrong to me, I'm certainly open to the idea that I am wrong, but I would like to know why if I am indeed wrong.

The internet seems to be unanimously of the opinion that Interstate 184 continues with US-20/26 from the Chinden Blvd exit eastward to 13th Street where the elevated highway ends in Boise. While this seems intuitive from aerial imagery, it's clear on the ground that this is not the case - the speed limit drops and the River Street exit is unnumbered (unlike the rest of I-184).

Looking at every piece of documentation I can find, it is clear to me that I-184 ends at Chinden Blvd where it approaches US-20/26, and never actually runs concurrent with 20/26.

Here is my evidence:

ITD:
1. http://apps.itd.idaho.gov/apps/milepointlog/logs/interState/I_184_MPLog.pdf shows Interstate 184 ending at the Chinden Blvd interchange (US 20 Spur is the westbound bridge along Main Street) that connects to Chinden.

2. http://apps.itd.idaho.gov/apps/milepointlog/logs/usHW/US_20_MPLog.pdf (see page 5) shows US 20 as the primary route along the elevated highway from Chinden to 13th St.

Pretty cut and dry.

"But wait!" You might be saying. "Just because US 20 is the primary route doesn't mean that I-184 isn't concurrent with it." To which I would say:

1. Look at the other pages of the US 20 route log. ITD is very good at marking where routes overlap with other routes.
2. FHWA shows that I-184 is 3.62 miles long: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/interstate_highway_system/routefinder/table02.cfm
According to Google, the distance from the I-84 ramps to Chinden is 3.6 miles - to extend all the way to 13th Street would require another mile. https://goo.gl/maps/SGCrJfEWJET2

So to me, it's clear that on paper both ITD and FHWA agree that I-184 does not run concurrent with US-20/26 from Chinden to 13th.

"But wait!" you might be saying. "It's certainly SIGNED as I-184, right?"

Wrong!
Heading eastward, the signage is as so:



Heading westward, the signage is as so:
https://goo.gl/maps/KCAGFD8DYDC2 .. and that's it.
The first I-184 sign appears here https://goo.gl/maps/TMDJSBLbRy82 ... at Chinden.

Now you might be saying "Okay, dumbass, it's clearly not written down like that anywhere on paper and it's not signed, but maybe you're just confused as you read the route logs." And that's where we thank goodness for the miracle that is Google Street View:

1. Eastbound https://goo.gl/maps/eK1GESrrNFv

I don't know how this myth began, but I hope that those powerful people that read this forum and can edit reputable websites can fix this egregious error, unless somebody has compelling evidence to the contrary. Thank you for your attention to this important matter.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 01:36:12 AM by Bickendan »
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Re: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2016, 09:42:50 PM »

I just checked Wikipedia. I was about to do something, but NE2 beat me to it.
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andy3175

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Re: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 12:04:27 AM »

I agree with your logic/reasoning. Alex has been making updates to several Interstate Guide pages, so we'll add your detailed clarification as part of our page revision. I will check with him when he returns from vacation.
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Bickendan

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Re: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 01:35:56 AM »

I agree with the assessment that I-184 does not overlap with US 20/26 at all and ends where US 20/26 merges onto the freeway, based on what I saw when I clinched the entirety of US 20 in Idaho in August. I wouldn't mind if I-184 continued to the end of the freeway pavement, but it'd be more redundant than the overlaps that US 20, 26, 30, 93 and I-84 all do through Idaho...
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Duke87

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Re: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2016, 01:13:23 PM »

TravelMapping already has it right.

Was probably based on the official log (hooray for using primary sources)
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doorknob60

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Re: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2016, 02:27:02 PM »

I always wondered about that. The signage in that area is kind of weird, anyways. Half the signs around downtown say "To I-84" instead of "I-184". One I always notice (pass it every day) is this one here, on eastbound Fairview at the Chinden intersection.



This ramp merges onto the last ~mile of freeway between Chinden and 13th. The first time I passed it I though "why no mention of I-184?". Then, I realized, there's no reason it needs to be mentioned there, as US-20 and 26 are great through routes from there through downtown and continuing down Broadway.

Because of the ambiguous signing, I was never really sure of I-184's exact end point, but it's good to know for sure now. Also, that 3.6 mile number always made me suspicious, it always seemed like longer from the Flying Wye to 13th, though I never checked my odometer there (and I usually exit at Fairview). It doesn't help that Google Maps labels the whole freeway as I-184 though. That, plus the common sense idea that "I-184 ends where the freeway" ends is where the "myth" probably came from.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 02:31:11 PM by doorknob60 »
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adventurernumber1

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Re: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 10:10:49 PM »

Hm, that's odd. I remember you talking about this in the chat. I just believed the internet regarding where Interstate 184 ends, but what you're saying now makes sense. It is strange that all of these different places on the internet have goofed up. Perhaps there was one false source of which all followed along and went by.

EDIT: Perhaps we should bring this to light (if not already) in the Google Maps editing thread.

corco

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Re: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 08:37:00 PM »

To close the loop - Google just modified the eastern terminus of I-184 in the last two days, so all is good in the world now. Thanks everybody!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 08:39:09 PM by corco »
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doorknob60

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Re: Why doesn't the internet know where I-184 ends?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2017, 03:09:37 PM »

To close the loop - Google just modified the eastern terminus of I-184 in the last two days, so all is good in the world now. Thanks everybody!

Except it's yellow now, that annoys me even more.


It should be orange until 13th St., where the freeway ends.

Though, I'm not sure there is an official definition of orange vs. yellow. The Bend Pkwy (US-97) is also yellow (I recall that being orange in the past), though that is not a full freeway entirely (though segments of it are). Also, the new freeway segment of ID-16 near Star is white (there are no interchanges, but it is built to what appear to be interstate/freeway standards, and with a 65 MPH speed limit)! Side note, I hope they can extend that all the way down to I-84 sooner rather than later, traveling north/south can be painful in this area, anything that can relieve Eagle Rd. just a little is welcome.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 03:13:57 PM by doorknob60 »
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