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Author Topic: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)  (Read 10172 times)

kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #125 on: March 14, 2017, 10:23:37 AM »

Don't like your kids (or yourself, if you are one) getting up too early for school?

Ask them to shorten it. But there is one problem: schools don't care about the early waking problem. They just don't like having to bear the effects of it. And of course, schools are more willing to turn to disciplinary actions than get to the source of the problem.

Seems a lot simpler to just stop changing our clocks twice a year.
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kalvado

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #126 on: March 14, 2017, 11:44:13 AM »

Windfarmer, my school district contracts out school busing.  I expect this is pretty common.  In order to save money, they have each bus collect kids for three schools, one after the other.  To have time for the bus run, they're about an hour apart.  So the schools are pretty arbitrarily divided up into starting too early (7:45 AM), too late (9:45 AM), and just right (8:45 AM).  If you're really 12, you might think 9:45 would be fine rather than too late, but when the kids are too young to get themselves ready for school in the morning it prevents one parent from holding most jobs.  Also if they start at 9:45 and have a full school day, there's no time for after school clubs, sports, a job, or other activities.

Schools do care, they're just chronically short of money.  Doing anything other than the cheapest solution possible, even if it has demonstrated bad effects on kids' learning, doesn't have a chance.

And it is important to understand that schools are one of biggest expenses. I don't want to dig out numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they consume more than military.
We in NY have one of most expensive schools in US - state average spending is just north of $20k per student annually, or quarter million till high school graduation. If you will, same amount of money would buy one a college degree plus a reasonable house for a couple. Most other states are a bit below, but scale is still there.
Or - one of 40 working adults works in school education. So just paying them average salary requires 2.5% tax on each and every paycheck.
So running 3x buses and paying 3x drivers, nice this nice that would easily send everyone bankrupt. And given limited transportation options for most kids...
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #127 on: March 14, 2017, 11:47:32 AM »

Windfarmer, my school district contracts out school busing.  I expect this is pretty common.  In order to save money, they have each bus collect kids for three schools, one after the other.  To have time for the bus run, they're about an hour apart.  So the schools are pretty arbitrarily divided up into starting too early (7:45 AM), too late (9:45 AM), and just right (8:45 AM).  If you're really 12, you might think 9:45 would be fine rather than too late, but when the kids are too young to get themselves ready for school in the morning it prevents one parent from holding most jobs.  Also if they start at 9:45 and have a full school day, there's no time for after school clubs, sports, a job, or other activities.

Schools do care, they're just chronically short of money.  Doing anything other than the cheapest solution possible, even if it has demonstrated bad effects on kids' learning, doesn't have a chance.

And it is important to understand that schools are one of biggest expenses. I don't want to dig out numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they consume more than military.
We in NY have one of most expensive schools in US - state average spending is just north of $20k per student annually, or quarter million till high school graduation. If you will, same amount of money would buy one a college degree plus a reasonable house for a couple. Most other states are a bit below, but scale is still there.
Or - one of 40 working adults works in school education. So just paying them average salary requires 2.5% tax on each and every paycheck.
So running 3x buses and paying 3x drivers, nice this nice that would easily send everyone bankrupt. And given limited transportation options for most kids...

Don't forget, the solution to poor test results is to throw even more money at the schools.  Because lots of fancy whirligigs makes kids smarter.
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kalvado

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #128 on: March 14, 2017, 12:29:47 PM »

Windfarmer, my school district contracts out school busing.  I expect this is pretty common.  In order to save money, they have each bus collect kids for three schools, one after the other.  To have time for the bus run, they're about an hour apart.  So the schools are pretty arbitrarily divided up into starting too early (7:45 AM), too late (9:45 AM), and just right (8:45 AM).  If you're really 12, you might think 9:45 would be fine rather than too late, but when the kids are too young to get themselves ready for school in the morning it prevents one parent from holding most jobs.  Also if they start at 9:45 and have a full school day, there's no time for after school clubs, sports, a job, or other activities.

Schools do care, they're just chronically short of money.  Doing anything other than the cheapest solution possible, even if it has demonstrated bad effects on kids' learning, doesn't have a chance.

And it is important to understand that schools are one of biggest expenses. I don't want to dig out numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they consume more than military.
We in NY have one of most expensive schools in US - state average spending is just north of $20k per student annually, or quarter million till high school graduation. If you will, same amount of money would buy one a college degree plus a reasonable house for a couple. Most other states are a bit below, but scale is still there.
Or - one of 40 working adults works in school education. So just paying them average salary requires 2.5% tax on each and every paycheck.
So running 3x buses and paying 3x drivers, nice this nice that would easily send everyone bankrupt. And given limited transportation options for most kids...

Don't forget, the solution to poor test results is to throw even more money at the schools.  Because lots of fancy whirligigs makes kids smarter.
Money are definitely part of it - but not ultimate part. We want best teachers, best doctors, honest cops.. In broad terms (education, healthcare, protective services) that is roughly 20% of workforce. Think about your high school classmates and say "this guy would be a good doctor, those two girls - great teachers, and thatn we all knew was a future cop". Having hard time designating people like that? That is because teachers, doctors, cops... you name it.. just average people....
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #129 on: March 14, 2017, 12:38:07 PM »

Q:  What do you call the student at the bottom of his graduating class in medical school?

A:  Doctor.
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kkt

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #130 on: March 14, 2017, 12:40:32 PM »

kphoger, please realize that a lot of those tests are complete nonsense.  Written by people who never taught in school, without reference to curriculum that the state says schools are supposed to be teaching in each grade, with statistical processes that don't bear examination.  They're invented not to help identify weak spots in kids, but simply to have a brick to throw at the schools.  Any yahoo with political connections can make up a test, get the legislature to require the schools to administer it, and get taxpayer money that should be going to schools to go to them instead.  Kids lose weeks of time that they ought to be in class every year taking these damn tests.  Private schools and charter schools can be state accredited but don't have to do all those tests.
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #131 on: March 14, 2017, 12:54:34 PM »

kphoger, please realize that a lot of those tests are complete nonsense.  Written by people who never taught in school, without reference to curriculum that the state says schools are supposed to be teaching in each grade, with statistical processes that don't bear examination.  They're invented not to help identify weak spots in kids, but simply to have a brick to throw at the schools.  Any yahoo with political connections can make up a test, get the legislature to require the schools to administer it, and get taxpayer money that should be going to schools to go to them instead.  Kids lose weeks of time that they ought to be in class every year taking these damn tests.  Private schools and charter schools can be state accredited but don't have to do all those tests.

Preaching to the choir, don't worry.  I'm the parent of home-schooled children.
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kkt

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #132 on: March 14, 2017, 12:56:48 PM »

I wish I could homeschool my kid.
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kphoger

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Re: The annual DST thread (2017 edition)
« Reply #133 on: March 14, 2017, 01:01:26 PM »

Having good friends who are teachers in the public school system makes us ever more glad we chose to home-school.  It's amazing what many third-graders don't know.
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