When was the AARoads Forum organized?

[Scott5114]

I'll note: for history folks, the Usenet is one reason you have perl. Larry Wall, the author of perl, was better known for a newsreader called rn back in Usenet days. Larry, his BIL Mark, his other BIL Jon, and I all carpooled together to SDC in those days. Larry had to come up with a configuration management reporting system to support the TCSEC (Orange Book) A1 requirements, and work both in Santa Monica and Paoli PA. So he decided to adapt Usenet news to allow article synchronization and update. He tried to use sed and awk for the reports, but they didn't have the capability to walk through files at that time, and thus perl was born. I was the first user of perl, adapting it to support development of a data dictionary for an A1 network system. So perl's lineage is Usenet and the TCSEC.

How the heck did I miss this when it was first posted? That's incredibly cool—Perl's always been my favorite language because something about it just clicks with me better than PHP or Python.

I get the impression from the various writings around the language, as well as the language itself, that Larry must be quite the character.

[kphoger]

How the heck did I miss this when it was first posted?

[sarcasm]  You probably just dismissed it out of hand, chalking him up as another Al Gore type loony.  [/sarcasm]

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

[Scott5114]

You probably just dismissed it out of hand, chalking him up as another Al Gore type loony. 

More likely I saw the thread title of "When was the forum organized?" and thought "bold to think we ever bothered organizing anything," and never opened it.

[hbelkins]

Who says the AARoads Forum is organized?

I give you the ABC, CBS, Fox ... thread as an example.

Stuff like that and then some was going on in the ancient MTR days.  I really don't get why some hobby mainstreams think that was a golden age. 

It was a golden age because it was self-moderating. You didn't like someone, or something they said? Plonk

There was no yelling and screaming about unfair moderation, certain people getting away with stuff others couldn't get away with, people being disciplined for things they posted on other forums, etc.

Everybody was a target to be told "DUAAFAFO" by Tom From Ohio. Everybody was free to either mock and ridicule or ignore Carl Rogers. Everybody was free to shout back at Randy Hersh when he called others racist while exhibiting his own racist behavior and bragging about his tax-free income.

Usenet was a free-for-all for the exchange of ideas, opinions, and insults. Can you imagine how Crash_It or the "I-70 doesn't go to Baltimore" guy would fare there? MMM? Poipoise13 or whatever his name was?

[The_Ginger]

I've got another question that should fit in here: Why "AARoads"? Why was this name chosen?

[Molandfreak]

I've got another question that should fit in here: Why "AARoads"? Why was this name chosen?

@Alex and @andy3175 were the primary creators of the website.

[cahwyguy]

It was a golden age of sorts...before everyone thought it was a good idea to kill their unique websites and become a Facebook Group...

Some of us never killed our unique websites. California Highways is still going strong, 30 years (or possibly even 40 years) strong, and our podcast is about to finish its 4th season.

[cahwyguy]

I'll note: for history folks, the Usenet is one reason you have perl. Larry Wall, the author of perl, was better known for a newsreader called rn back in Usenet days. Larry, his BIL Mark, his other BIL Jon, and I all carpooled together to SDC in those days. Larry had to come up with a configuration management reporting system to support the TCSEC (Orange Book) A1 requirements, and work both in Santa Monica and Paoli PA. So he decided to adapt Usenet news to allow article synchronization and update. He tried to use sed and awk for the reports, but they didn't have the capability to walk through files at that time, and thus perl was born. I was the first user of perl, adapting it to support development of a data dictionary for an A1 network system. So perl's lineage is Usenet and the TCSEC.

How the heck did I miss this when it was first posted? That's incredibly cool—Perl's always been my favorite language because something about it just clicks with me better than PHP or Python.

I get the impression from the various writings around the language, as well as the language itself, that Larry must be quite the character.

He's one of the nicest folks around (and we need to get back up to the bay area to see him -- perhaps when we build a vacation around the next California road meet). We might see him sooner if he comes down this way for his mother-in-law's memorial (I told you we were friends with the family).

I'm perl's paternal godparent, and wrote the history chapter in the camel book. Perl is what I use to generate my website from HTML source files, and it is about the only language I program in these days. I really only use it as it was intended: as a text munging language. Sysadmin cruft came later. I'm also probably one of the few who can recognize the RSTS-isms in the language.

[kurumi]

It's neat to find out we are all two hops away from Larry Wall! (I need to go find my copy of the Camel Book.) I've used Perl for my website CMS forever. Here's a sample of that gory code, that processes a Markdown-like shorthand I created before the real thing existed:

Code Select Expand

        # table header row: starts with double pipe and space
        # don't have trailing pipes; you'll get an extra column
        # || town | city | state   ...
        if (/^\|\| (.*)/) {
                my @cells = map("<th>$_</th>", split(/\s*\|\s*/, $1));
                $$html .= '<thead><tr>' . join (' ',  @cells) . "</tr></thead>\n";
                return 1;
        }

        # plain old table row: starts with pipe and space
        # (if you allow no space after '|', you must check for '||' first)
        # don't have trailing pipes; you'll get an extra column
        # whitespace OK in cells, and "beyond" trailing pipe
        if (/^\| (.*)/) {
                my @cells = map("<td>$_</td>", split(/\|/, $1));
                foreach (@cells) {
                        s!<td>\s*(.+)\s*</td>!<td>$1</td>!;
                }
                $$html .= '<tr>' . join (' ',  @cells) . "</tr>\n";
                return 1;
        }


[cahwyguy]

I once had a markdown like notation for tables; that all went away when I got HoTMetaL Pro and a decent HTML editor (I'm currently using Blue Griffon, but I'm always looking for something better that does a tags-based WYSWYG). My perl scripts take HTML files that look like:

Code Select Expand

  <body>
    <h2>%ROUTE I 15</h2>
    <h2>%ROUTING</h2>
    <h3>%STARTSEG Rte 5 to Rte 8</h3>
    <p><img alt="Rte 15 Seg 1" src="../maps/015-seg1.jpg" class="hwymap" height="382"

        width="263">From Route 5 in San Diego to Route 8. </p>
    <h4>%HIST1964</h4>
    <p>*SR* This segment was added to Route 15 in 1969 by Chapter 294; it was
      previously Route 103. See <a href="#1934-015">below</a> for the pre-1964
      routing of Route 15.</p>
    <p>In late 1963, the CTC adopted 6.4 miles of freeway along Route 103 near
      US 80/I-8 north to US 395. The adopted freeway corridor followed the
      existing routing of Route 103 along Ward Road and Murphy Canyon Road.<br>
      <cite>(Source: Gribblenation Blog (Tom Fearer), "<em><a href="https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/09/california-state-route-15.html">California
            State Route&#9248;15</a></em>", 9/9/2023) </cite></p>
And translate them into what you see on the website, along the way turning references such as Route 103 into the hotlinks. They also take chunks like

Code Select Expand

   <p style="clear: right;"><img alt="Daniel D. Mikesell" src="../images/010-mikesell.jpg"

        class="hwyimg">@NAMES{Mikesell, Daniel D. |Daniel D.
      _M_ikesell Interchange}Bridge 54-0909 on I-15, the I-15/I-10 separation in
      San Bernardino County near Ontario (SBD 009.94), is named the "<i>Daniel
        D. Mikesell Interchange</i>". It was built in 1975, and was named in
      Senate Concurrent Resolution 64, Chapter 84, in 1980. Daniel D. Mikesell
      was born on March 1910 in Shawnee, Oklahoma. He attended UCLA and married
      Gabrielle Lucas, a former Miss Ontario in 1936. He joined the San
      Bernardino County Board of Supervisors in 1954 and served until he was
      elected Mayor of Ontario in 1960. Re-elected to the Board of Supervisors
      in 1962, he remained there until his retirement in 1974. He died on
      November 12, 2007 in Ontario. Known as a consummate politician, he was
      considered an authority on aviation and transportation. He was
      instrumental in the transfer of the Ontario Airport to the County of Los
      Angeles and the I-10/I-15 freeway interchange is named in his honor for
      his decades-long effort to construct the link between Ontario and Fontana.
      In particular, Mikesell exerted exceptional effort beginning in 1955 to
      have the Devore Cutoff included in the California Freeway and Expressway
      System.<br>
      <span class="citation">(Image source: <a href="https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&amp;d=SBS19740524.1.17&amp;srpos=7&amp;e=-------en--20--1--txt-txIN-mikesell-------1">UCR
California
          Digital Newspaper Collection, SB Sun, 5/24/1974, Page 17</a>)</span></p>
Grabbing the names and building the alphabetical names index (https://www.cahighways.org/names.html), as well as the unique references for direct reference. There's a lot of tricky stuff in the scripts to ensure that mentions of I-nnn or Route nnn in website names or URLs don't get translated. That's a real mess:

Code Select Expand

sub process_route_line {
    my($thisline) = shift(@_);
    my($thisroute) = shift(@_);
    my($hwyhandle) = shift(@_);

    # Fix lines that have been cut off mid-word
    while ($thisline =~ /\b(Route|US|LRN|Interstate|CR|CA)\s*$/) {
chop($thisline);
$thisline .= " ";
$thisline =~ s/\r//g;
$thisline = $thisline . " " . <$hwyhandle>;
$thisline =~ s/\&\#92(48|50|51)\;/\&nbsp;/g; # change the visible space symbol, the blank symbol, or the open
                                # box symbol to a non-breaking space
    if ($thisline =~ /\@NAM/) {
print STDERR "*** Warning: Naming Fragment Slurped for Route: ",$thisline;
    }
$thisline =~ s/  / /g;
    }
    # We want to do the same thing for <A> and the ALT= and TITLE= options
    if ($thisline =~ /\<A/i) {
until ($thisline =~ /\<A[^\>]*\>.*\<\/A\>/i) {
    chop($thisline);
$thisline .= " ";
$thisline =~ s/\r//g;
    $thisline = $thisline . " " . <$hwyhandle>;
$thisline =~ s/\&\#92(48|50|51)\;/\&nbsp;/g; # change the visible space symbol, the blank symbol, or the open
                                # box symbol to a non-breaking space
    if ($thisline =~ /\@NAM/) {
print STDERR "*** Warning: Naming Fragment Slurped for A: ",$thisline;
    }
    $thisline =~ s/  / /g;
}
    }
    if ($thisline =~ /ALT=/i) {
while ($thisline =~ /ALT=\"[^\"]*$/i) {
    chop($thisline);
$thisline .= " ";
$thisline =~ s/\r//g;
    $thisline = $thisline . " " . <$hwyhandle>;
$thisline =~ s/\&\#92(48|50|51)\;/\&nbsp;/g; # change the visible space symbol, the blank symbol, or the open
                                # box symbol to a non-breaking space
    if ($thisline =~ /\@NAM/) {
print STDERR "*** Warning: Naming Fragment Slurped for ALT=: ",$thisline;
    }
    $thisline =~ s/  / /g;
}
    }
    if ($thisline =~ /TITLE=/i) {
while ($thisline =~ /TITLE=\"[^\"]*$/i) {
    chop($thisline);
$thisline .= " ";
$thisline =~ s/\r//g;
    $thisline = $thisline . " " . <$hwyhandle>;
$thisline =~ s/\&\#92(48|50|51)\;/\&nbsp;/g; # change the visible space symbol, the blank symbol, or the open
                                # box symbol to a non-breaking space
    if ($thisline =~ /\@NAM/) {
print STDERR "*** Warning: Naming Fragment Slurped for TITLE=: ",$thisline;
    }
    $thisline =~ s/  / /g;
}
    }
    # Now that we've made everything into one long line, we want to exclude those areas where we
    # don't want to do route number reference processing. That would be in the ALT= strings,
    # the TITLE= strings, and within <A>
    while ($thisline =~ /(.*)ALT=\"([^\"]*)\"(.*)/i) {
$front = $1;
$alttext = $2;
$last = $3;
last if ($alttext !~ /[\s\-]+/);
$alttext =~ s/[\s+]/\&\#9248;/g;
$alttext =~ s/\-/\&\#8210;/g;
$thisline = $front . "ALT=\"".$alttext."\"".$last;
#     print STDERR "*",$alttext,"*\n";
    }
    # And for Title
    while ($thisline =~ /(.*)TITLE=\"([^\"]*)\"(.*)/i) {
$front = $1;
$alttext = $2;
$last = $3;
last if ($alttext !~ /[\s\-]+/);
$alttext =~ s/[\s+]/\&\#9248;/g;
$alttext =~ s/\-/\&\#8210;/g;
$thisline = $front . "TITLE=\"".$alttext."\"".$last;
#     print STDERR "%",$alttext,"%\n";
    }
    # And for the contents with a <A>
    while ($thisline =~ /(.*)<A([^\>]*)\>(.*)<\/A>(.*)/i) {
$front = $1;
$aparms = $2;
$alttext = $3;
$last = $4;
last if ($alttext !~ /[\s\-]+/);
$alttext =~ s/[\s+]/\&\#9248;/g;
$alttext =~ s/\-/\&\#8210;/g;
$thisline = $front . "\<A".$aparms.">".$alttext."</A>".$last;
#     print STDERR "**",$alttext,"**\n";
    }
    # ANd references
    if ($thisline =~ /(.*)href=\"([^\"]+)\"(.*)/) {
$front = $1;
$href = $2;
$back = $3;
$href =~ s/\-/\&\#8210;/g;
$thisline = $front . "href=\"" . $href . "\"" . $back;
    }
    if ($thisline =~ /(.*)src=\"([^\"]+)\"(.*)/) {
$front = $1;
$href = $2;
$back = $3;
$href =~ s/\-/\&\#8210;/g;
$thisline = $front . "src=\"" . $href . "\"" . $back;
    }

    $thisline = routes_into_refs($thisline,$thisroute,"");

    # Undo transformations
    $thisline =~ s/\&\#9248;/ /g;
    $thisline =~ s/\&\#8210;/-/g;

    return($thisline);
}   

Hopefully, we haven't totally confused folks, but this is a non-road forum, after all.

[bugo]

Alex and andy3175 were the primary creators of the website.

Not true. There was another creator, but this person has been forgotten.

[kphoger]

There was another creator, but this person has been forgotten.

Then how did you remember him? 

[PNWRoadgeek]

There should, theoretically, be a history of all of our forum mishaps and inside jokes on the big AARoads forum, or maybe just a history in general.

Not saying it needs to happen.

But it's an idea.

[Max Rockatansky]

There should, theoretically, be a history of all of our forum mishaps and inside jokes on the big AARoads forum, or maybe just a history in general.

Not saying it needs to happen.

But it's an idea.

It is more fun when the details get murky.  For example, to the modern observer it appears that P13 was madly in love with John Madden.

[PNWRoadgeek]

There should, theoretically, be a history of all of our forum mishaps and inside jokes on the big AARoads forum, or maybe just a history in general.

Not saying it needs to happen.

But it's an idea.

It is more fun when the details get murky.  For example, to the modern observer it appears that P13 was madly in love with John Madden.

P13 was a strange individual from what I heard.

His cousin MMM had a strange obsession with the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

[Max Rockatansky]

There should, theoretically, be a history of all of our forum mishaps and inside jokes on the big AARoads forum, or maybe just a history in general.

Not saying it needs to happen.

But it's an idea.

It is more fun when the details get murky.  For example, to the modern observer it appears that P13 was madly in love with John Madden.

P13 was a strange individual from what I heard.

His cousin MMM had a strange obsession with the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Wasn't MMM the one who was on about helicopter graphing hooks and rollercoasters?

[hotdogPi]

Wasn't MMM the one who was on about helicopter graphing hooks and rollercoasters?

Yes, except "graphing" was roadman65's typo.

[Max Rockatansky]

Wasn't MMM the one who was on about helicopter graphing hooks and rollercoasters?

Yes, except "graphing" was roadman65's correction of MMM's typo.

Ah, so I am remembering it correctly.

[PNWRoadgeek]

Wasn't MMM the one who was on about helicopter graphing hooks and rollercoasters?

Yes, except "graphing" was roadman65's correction of MMM's typo.

Ah, so I am remembering it correctly.

How would a graphing hook even work? I'm learning some statistics stuff right now and it just doesn't seem like it would fit in.

Like how would that work on say, a histogram?

[Max Rockatansky]

Wasn't MMM the one who was on about helicopter graphing hooks and rollercoasters?

Yes, except "graphing" was roadman65's correction of MMM's typo.

Ah, so I am remembering it correctly.

How would a graphing hook even work? I'm learning some statistics stuff right now and it just doesn't seem like it would fit in.

Like how would that work on say, a histogram?

You'd have to ask the inventor himself.  I'm to understand high speed helicopters were involved and operated similar to the Zelda Hook Shot.

[kkt]

Wasn't MMM the one who was on about helicopter graphing hooks and rollercoasters?

Yes, except "graphing" was roadman65's correction of MMM's typo.

Ah, so I am remembering it correctly.

How would a graphing hook even work? I'm learning some statistics stuff right now and it just doesn't seem like it would fit in.

Like how would that work on say, a histogram?

It would work.... in MMM's fever dream.

[Scott5114]

Wasn't MMM the one who was on about helicopter graphing hooks and rollercoasters?

Yes, except "graphing" was roadman65's correction of MMM's typo.

Ah, so I am remembering it correctly.

How would a graphing hook even work? I'm learning some statistics stuff right now and it just doesn't seem like it would fit in.

Like how would that work on say, a histogram?

So you know the difference between a calculator and a graphing calculator, right?

It's like that, but with a hook instead of a calculator.

[kphoger]

What if we were wrong this whole time, and roadman65's error was actually that he spelled 'graphene' wrong?

[hbelkins]

This made me curious about something...

I recently happened across a thread that was started by Zeffy, who AFAIK is no longer active.

I remember that he and Bugo had a huge fight about something, but can't remember what it was over.

Does anybody remember that?

[WillWeaverRVA]

The forum began when a great visionary had the idea to have the North American Interstate Highway System, in all 15 North American countries, the countries will be, the U.S., Mexico, Canada, Alaska, Yukon, Northwest Terrtiories, Nunavut, Quebec, Greenland, Iceland, Alanland, Hawaii, Bermuda, Belize, and Saint Pierre and Miquelon, not central america, caribbean, or south america because i considered them other continents, and i would also like to have to have the interstate highway system in Europe and Australia, in Europe will have them in every country, like the UK, France or Spain, and in Australia will have them also in every country, like in Australia (Nation), or New Zealand, and this interstates can also be in Antarctica, and maybe South Africa, because in Antarctica theres only 1 or 2 countries, and about 5 or 6 Territories, and in South Africa because it looks like Europe, Australia, or North America, and those continents like North America, Europe, and Australia do look alike along with Antarctica and South Africa, theres my plan.