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Author Topic: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)  (Read 33647 times)

kphoger

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #450 on: October 17, 2017, 11:53:26 AM »

Is this the graphic you're referring to?
I agree, it's an error.




Everything I-87 touches is Alanland.


* kphoger ducks and runs.

ps Back-engineering that quote string took a while.
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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #451 on: October 21, 2017, 02:25:13 PM »

I-87 may very well help a lot of the struggling communities in its path when it comes through.

http://wnct.com/2017/01/03/martin-co-leaders-looks-forward-to-i-87-related-job-growth/
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Advocate for slapping an interstate shield over every single freeway

froggie

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #452 on: October 21, 2017, 04:41:28 PM »

The reality is somewhat different.  Far too many people see an Interstate shield as a panacea for economic growth.  Takes far more than that.  Takes resources and skilled workers too, amongst other things.  An Interstate alone isn't going to do it.
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LM117

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #453 on: October 21, 2017, 07:34:57 PM »

The reality is somewhat different.  Far too many people see an Interstate shield as a panacea for economic growth.  Takes far more than that.  Takes resources and skilled workers too, amongst other things.  An Interstate alone isn't going to do it.

Agreed, but it shouldn't be too difficult to see why so much faith in I-shields persists, especially in economically depressed areas. For example, I-795 has helped Goldsboro some since the interstate came into existence 10 years ago, though it took a few years thanks to the Great Recession.  Even the small town of Mount Olive has had development pop up on NC-55 near the US-117 interchange since it's been known for years that I-795 will eventually go through Mount Olive on it's way to I-40. One of the fast food chains (I forget which) had intended on opening next to I-795 in Fremont on NC-222 a few years ago until the NIMBY property owners killed it. People can laugh at fast food joints but for a small town, money is money.

The new US-70 Bypass in Goldsboro has led to development popping up towards it's exits, particularly on Wayne Memorial Drive and NC-581. A convention center is currently being built next to Wayne Community College with a large hotel being planned to be built next to the convention center.

As far as I-87 goes, I seriously doubt it will turn anything around. If there's any development at all, it will most likely be between Rocky Mount and Raleigh and between Elizabeth City and Virginia. It just doesn't have the level of traffic that the I-42 and I-795 corridors have.

While interstates are not an automatic guarantee of economic development, there are cases where it has helped to give some areas a boost, whether big or small.
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Beltway

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #454 on: October 21, 2017, 09:14:14 PM »

The reality is somewhat different.  Far too many people see an Interstate shield as a panacea for economic growth.  Takes far more than that.  Takes resources and skilled workers too, amongst other things.  An Interstate alone isn't going to do it.

Look at West Virginia, possibly the most transformed state highway system in the country, with its excellent network Interstate highways and ADHS highways.

The state has lost population since 1950, when the average U.S. state growth per decade was about 12%.  National population has increased by 112% since 1950.

West Virginia
        2015        2010          2000          1990         1950
1,844,128  1,852,996  1,808,344  1,793,477  2,005,552

« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 09:16:44 PM by Beltway »
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DJStephens

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #455 on: October 21, 2017, 09:44:01 PM »

The bottom three states in terms of economic opportunity are likely New Mexico (48) Mississippi (49) and West Virginia (50) in that order   
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #456 on: October 21, 2017, 11:59:20 PM »

The reality is somewhat different.  Far too many people see an Interstate shield as a panacea for economic growth.  Takes far more than that.  Takes resources and skilled workers too, amongst other things.  An Interstate alone isn't going to do it.

Look at West Virginia, possibly the most transformed state highway system in the country, with its excellent network Interstate highways and ADHS highways.

The state has lost population since 1950, when the average U.S. state growth per decade was about 12%.  National population has increased by 112% since 1950.

West Virginia
        2015        2010          2000          1990         1950
1,844,128  1,852,996  1,808,344  1,793,477  2,005,552
The bottom three states in terms of economic opportunity are likely New Mexico (48) Mississippi (49) and West Virginia (50) in that order   

In 1950, the lion's share of WV population were engaged in two economic activities:  resource (principally coal) extraction, and metal production (generally steel up in the northern panhandle).  At that time, diversifying into other fields didn't seem necessary.  The state's topography and lack of significant agricultural production has always been a factor; there is little breadth of economic activity; and when the steel industry began its decline in the late '50's those regions dominated by that industry suffered economic and eventually population losses correspondingly (just look at the last 7 census figures for Pittsburgh and Birmingham for confirmation of this trend).  When coal followed suit about 30 years later, it simply exacerbated the previous dynamics.  If one were to run regression analyses on determinants of WV's dire financial straits, road development would hardly make a blip in regards to its contribution -- or lack thereof -- to those circumstances.  The only "robust" data would inevitably track the loss of heavy industry and mining.  You could build 200 miles of new Interstate and/or full-blown ARC facility within the state -- or none at all -- and except for a marginal spike of cash flow around any construction efforts neither extreme would come close to affecting, much less reversing, the nearly 70-year decline.  Citing WV as an example of how new Interstate routes (the last development of which occurred 29 years ago with then-US 48, later I-68) -- or even ARC corridor development -- fail to enhance state economic fortune is both misleading and gratuitous; in that regard, the state is plainly an outlier.   
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froggie

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #457 on: October 22, 2017, 07:29:39 AM »

^ I wasn't thinking of West Virginia.  I was thinking of areas that already had an Interstate (and major rail) junction and are still dying or decreasing.  Meridian, MS is a classic example of this and the first one I was thinking of.
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Beltway

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #458 on: October 22, 2017, 08:18:57 AM »

In 1950, the lion's share of WV population were engaged in two economic activities:  resource (principally coal) extraction, and metal production (generally steel up in the northern panhandle).  At that time, diversifying into other fields didn't seem necessary.  The state's topography and lack of significant agricultural production has always been a factor; there is little breadth of economic activity; and when the steel industry began its decline in the late '50's those regions dominated by that industry suffered economic and eventually population losses correspondingly (just look at the last 7 census figures for Pittsburgh and Birmingham for confirmation of this trend).  When coal followed suit about 30 years later, it simply exacerbated the previous dynamics.  If one were to run regression analyses on determinants of WV's dire financial straits, road development would hardly make a blip in regards to its contribution -- or lack thereof -- to those circumstances.  The only "robust" data would inevitably track the loss of heavy industry and mining.  You could build 200 miles of new Interstate and/or full-blown ARC facility within the state -- or none at all -- and except for a marginal spike of cash flow around any construction efforts neither extreme would come close to affecting, much less reversing, the nearly 70-year decline.  Citing WV as an example of how new Interstate routes (the last development of which occurred 29 years ago with then-US 48, later I-68) -- or even ARC corridor development -- fail to enhance state economic fortune is both misleading and gratuitous; in that regard, the state is plainly an outlier.   

Agriculture is a lot more than just growing crops, it includes livestock products and forestal harvesting.  Do some research and find that West Virginia did and does produce considerable agricultural output.  Around 23,000 farms averaging 157 acres each.  The third most-forested state with 12 million acres of forestland.

West Virginia could reinvent itself just like Pittsburgh did after the huge decline in steel and industrial output.  A number of small metros that could experience considerable growth and development.

I didn't say "fail to enhance", I just said that there is no guarantee.  Sticking a highway in a questionable area with at best one-dimensional justifications (hello!) points to a boondoggle.

Beltway

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Re: Interstate 87 (NC-VA)
« Reply #459 on: October 22, 2017, 08:19:52 AM »

^ I wasn't thinking of West Virginia.  I was thinking of areas that already had an Interstate (and major rail) junction and are still dying or decreasing.  Meridian, MS is a classic example of this and the first one I was thinking of.

Sounds like instances in West Virginia.

 


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