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Author Topic: Utah  (Read 23048 times)

Plutonic Panda

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Re: Utah
« Reply #150 on: February 13, 2020, 01:17:59 PM »

Shouldn’t be a bicycle route unless there are dedicated lanes or trails.
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Kniwt

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Re: Utah
« Reply #151 on: February 14, 2020, 12:24:36 AM »

St. George News reports that Toquerville is planning to rebuild most of UT-17 (which connects I-15 to La Verkin/Hurricane) on new alignment to bypass the town and then hand it over to UDOT. The article also includes news on other southern Utah projects, including the final section of UT-7 which might be done next year.
https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2020/02/13/mgk-transportation-expo-recap-heres-what-you-can-expect-for-the-future-of-getting-around-washington-county/

Quote
The new route that Toquerville proposes to build as the new SR-17 will bypass the small town completely and also provide a much safer and less winding route for travelers heading to Zion National Park and other parts of the eastern side of the county.

The new roadway will also be engineered to accommodate a much larger volume of traffic.

“It’s not wise to put that much traffic on the existing SR-17,” Ellsworth said.

The roadway is estimated to cost roughly $10 million and will initially be a two-lane road. After the new roadway is completed, Ellsworth said the city plans to hand the road over to UDOT, which he hopes will eventually widen it to five lanes.

Of note: UDOT recently completed a rebuild of the existing SR-17 with better shoulders and new pavement.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 12:26:48 AM by Kniwt »
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #152 on: February 14, 2020, 04:48:16 PM »

The prospect of a Toquerville bypass built by the city fascinates me - I don't think I know of any other situation in Utah where a local jurisdiction built a new realignment with the idea that it would eventually be transferred permanently to UDOT. The closest thing I can think of would be the SR-224 realignment in the Deer Valley area, but in that case the old alignment was abandoned and I think it was done with an SR-224 truncation in mind (which ultimately never happened).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 07:02:41 PM by US 89 »
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #153 on: March 24, 2020, 01:15:11 PM »

The agenda for the upcoming Utah Transportation Commission Meeting (which will be conducted online due to coronavirus) includes a jurisdictional transfer resolution for the aforementioned SR-17 segment in Toquerville. The resolution establishes that SR 17 will be moved to the new bypass once the city has constructed one lane in each direction and connected it to the existing 17 alignment on both ends. Later on, UDOT will expand it to two lanes in each direction.

According to the documents, the new road will be called Toquerville Parkway, splitting from the current alignment just south of the Toquerville City Cemetery and rejoining it about a half-mile south of the I-15 interchange:

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jakeroot

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Re: Utah
« Reply #154 on: March 24, 2020, 04:43:50 PM »

Seems like a sleepy little hamlet from street view. Can anyone explain to me the value of this bypass?

I'm not an idiot. Bypasses have very clear benefits to travel flow, but those benefits are usually measured against the current situation to determine, basically: is it worth it? The current road has no signals or stop signs, and a limit of at least 40. There must be a ton of crashes?

Here in WA, we're finally getting around to building the final stage of the Yelm Bypass, which is eliminating a good dozen signals and 25/30 limits. That screams "worth it" to me; this just doesn't. Unless there's something major I don't know about.
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rte66man

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Re: Utah
« Reply #155 on: March 25, 2020, 10:55:14 AM »

Seems like a sleepy little hamlet from street view. Can anyone explain to me the value of this bypass?

I'm not an idiot. Bypasses have very clear benefits to travel flow, but those benefits are usually measured against the current situation to determine, basically: is it worth it? The current road has no signals or stop signs, and a limit of at least 40. There must be a ton of crashes?

Here in WA, we're finally getting around to building the final stage of the Yelm Bypass, which is eliminating a good dozen signals and 25/30 limits. That screams "worth it" to me; this just doesn't. Unless there's something major I don't know about.

The traffic in and out of Zion National Park is very heavy in the summers. SR17 is the way in and out of you are headed north.
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When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

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jakeroot

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Re: Utah
« Reply #156 on: March 25, 2020, 01:49:30 PM »

Seems like a sleepy little hamlet from street view. Can anyone explain to me the value of this bypass?

I'm not an idiot. Bypasses have very clear benefits to travel flow, but those benefits are usually measured against the current situation to determine, basically: is it worth it? The current road has no signals or stop signs, and a limit of at least 40. There must be a ton of crashes?

Here in WA, we're finally getting around to building the final stage of the Yelm Bypass, which is eliminating a good dozen signals and 25/30 limits. That screams "worth it" to me; this just doesn't. Unless there's something major I don't know about.

The traffic in and out of Zion National Park is very heavy in the summers. SR17 is the way in and out of you are headed north.

I see. Is driving through Toquerville creating lots of congestion along Hwy 17? Or has there been safety issues within Toquerville?

Realistically, most major state highways pass through towns along their paths, but that doesn't mean they all have to be bypassed. In Toquerville's case, the road through the city is quite wide, has a high speed limit, center turn lane, and no traffic control hindrance (like stop signs or signals); it's hard for me to understand how Toquerville is harming flow along Hwy 17, and (especially) why UDOT feels it necessary to bypass the city entirely when there is no clear bottleneck to current traffic beyond a very-reasonable-for-a-town 40mph limit.
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #157 on: March 25, 2020, 04:45:37 PM »

There are certainly other bypasses in Utah that really ought to be built before this one (*cough* Logan and Heber), but I don't think UDOT itself had a ton of desire to build this because all the plans for this have been coming from the city. Toquerville residents don't like having park traffic passing through their town and wanted a bypass to remove that traffic from their main street. Another potential factor is the expectation that traffic will eventually increase enough for a full 4-lane, which could be somewhat difficult to pull off on the current alignment. The article Kniwt posted earlier suggests the winding nature of the current road is another concern as well. Keep in mind also the very high rate at which Washington County is growing, so this new bypass is likely going to become a focus for new development as soon as it's built.

Naturally the bypass is going to become the primary through route once it's done, so UDOT and the city will swap alignments and move SR 17 onto the bypass.
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nexus73

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Re: Utah
« Reply #158 on: March 25, 2020, 06:59:04 PM »

There are certainly other bypasses in Utah that really ought to be built before this one (*cough* Logan and Heber), but I don't think UDOT itself had a ton of desire to build this because all the plans for this have been coming from the city. Toquerville residents don't like having park traffic passing through their town and wanted a bypass to remove that traffic from their main street. Another potential factor is the expectation that traffic will eventually increase enough for a full 4-lane, which could be somewhat difficult to pull off on the current alignment. The article Kniwt posted earlier suggests the winding nature of the current road is another concern as well. Keep in mind also the very high rate at which Washington County is growing, so this new bypass is likely going to become a focus for new development as soon as it's built.

Naturally the bypass is going to become the primary through route once it's done, so UDOT and the city will swap alignments and move SR 17 onto the bypass.

Heber City getting mentioned by you makes me wonder after US 189's improvements were completed to just north of Deer Creek Dam, why UDOT did not finish the deal so the freeway segment of US 40/189 and the freeway/expressway section of US 189 were connected?  Trucks heading for points south of SLC like to avoid Emigrant Pass and use the route to Provo for connecting with I-15. 

Rick
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US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willets CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

sparker

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Re: Utah
« Reply #159 on: March 28, 2020, 05:13:42 AM »

Seems like a sleepy little hamlet from street view. Can anyone explain to me the value of this bypass?

I'm not an idiot. Bypasses have very clear benefits to travel flow, but those benefits are usually measured against the current situation to determine, basically: is it worth it? The current road has no signals or stop signs, and a limit of at least 40. There must be a ton of crashes?

Here in WA, we're finally getting around to building the final stage of the Yelm Bypass, which is eliminating a good dozen signals and 25/30 limits. That screams "worth it" to me; this just doesn't. Unless there's something major I don't know about.

The traffic in and out of Zion National Park is very heavy in the summers. SR17 is the way in and out of you are headed north.

I see. Is driving through Toquerville creating lots of congestion along Hwy 17? Or has there been safety issues within Toquerville?

Realistically, most major state highways pass through towns along their paths, but that doesn't mean they all have to be bypassed. In Toquerville's case, the road through the city is quite wide, has a high speed limit, center turn lane, and no traffic control hindrance (like stop signs or signals); it's hard for me to understand how Toquerville is harming flow along Hwy 17, and (especially) why UDOT feels it necessary to bypass the city entirely when there is no clear bottleneck to current traffic beyond a very-reasonable-for-a-town 40mph limit.

According to friends who recently retired to the St. George area, UT 17 has been getting substantial commercial truck traffic from AZ-SLC (and the Wasatch Front in general) using the AZ 389/UT 59 routing as a "shortcut" from US 89 over to I-15, usually coming down from Kanab to Fredonia and then west -- thus avoiding schlepping through the various US 89 towns north to I-70.  I suppose Toquerville would rather avoid both the diesel fumes and accompanying noise, hence one of the rationales for the bypass.   
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Kniwt

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Re: Utah
« Reply #160 on: March 28, 2020, 08:56:37 PM »

UT 17 has been getting substantial commercial truck traffic from AZ-SLC (and the Wasatch Front in general) using the AZ 389/UT 59 routing as a "shortcut" from US 89 over to I-15, usually coming down from Kanab to Fredonia and then west -- thus avoiding schlepping through the various US 89 towns north to I-70.

Good grief. UT 59 is dangerous enough as it is without a bunch of trucks on it because "the algorithm" told them it would save five minutes. There are no shoulders at all, and the news is full of head-on collisions, often fatal. The very steep and narrow descent into Hurricane has no margin for error, and if a truck loses its brakes, the only things stopping it are either going over the side or crashing into downtown.

UT 20 is a perfectly fine connection between US 89 and I-15. Yes, it has Panguitch along the way, but it's not any worse than the slog through Hurricane and La Verkin.
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sparker

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Re: Utah
« Reply #161 on: March 29, 2020, 03:19:05 AM »

UT 17 has been getting substantial commercial truck traffic from AZ-SLC (and the Wasatch Front in general) using the AZ 389/UT 59 routing as a "shortcut" from US 89 over to I-15, usually coming down from Kanab to Fredonia and then west -- thus avoiding schlepping through the various US 89 towns north to I-70.

Good grief. UT 59 is dangerous enough as it is without a bunch of trucks on it because "the algorithm" told them it would save five minutes. There are no shoulders at all, and the news is full of head-on collisions, often fatal. The very steep and narrow descent into Hurricane has no margin for error, and if a truck loses its brakes, the only things stopping it are either going over the side or crashing into downtown.

UT 20 is a perfectly fine connection between US 89 and I-15. Yes, it has Panguitch along the way, but it's not any worse than the slog through Hurricane and La Verkin.

My friends actually moved to the area in November, so their observations likely resulted from winter conditions over the summit on UT 20 (which poses no significant problems at other times).  Truckers tend to select the path of least resistance; seasonally that becomes staying on I-15 for as long as possible before an AZ "cutoff", and conversely, getting on to I-15 as far south as they can.  Otherwise, 389/59/9/17 is 157 miles from Kanab to the I-15/UT 20 interchange versus 95 miles directly on US 89 and UT 20; if truck traffic is using the longer route, it would most likely be due to winter conditions (few competent truckers would add 63 miles to their trip otherwise!). 
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