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Author Topic: Utah  (Read 6186 times)

epzik8

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Re: Utah
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2018, 10:35:51 AM »

Why are streets in the Salt Lake City area called things like 500 West?
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Re: Utah
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2018, 11:32:26 AM »

Why are streets in the Salt Lake City area called things like 500 West?

The history: https://history.lds.org/article/museum-treasures-meridian-marker?lang=eng
An explainer: http://www.exploreutah.com/GettingAround/Navigating_Utahs_Streets.shtml

That said, in the parts of Utah where it's not flat, the grid system sometimes breaks down in those communities that use it. Outside Hurricane, for example, I recently encountered the intersection of "1500 West" and "1600 West."
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i-215

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Re: Utah
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2018, 05:02:43 PM »

Why are streets in the Salt Lake City area called things like 500 West?

Those other articles will go into more depth.  It's basically our version of "5th Avenue" or "W 5th Street."  Instead, we use house addresses for the street numbers.  It's weird at first, but once you get used to it, it works very well.

Back before GPS, in Salt Lake County, nobody ever bought Thomas Guides.  The grid told you exactly where you needed to go.
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nexus73

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Re: Utah
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2018, 11:11:46 AM »

I liked Utah's Cartesian coordinate system.  Also take note that when going away from the 0,0 point that the even numbered addresses will be on the right hand side.

SLC was laid out as an urban farm district originally, thus the big blocks and wide streets able to handle turning a team of oxen on.  The exception is the Avenues district, which is a traditional residential neighborhood. 

Rick
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2018, 06:36:37 PM »

The Temple streets are also common sources of confusion. Many people think South Temple should run south from the temple, when it's actually the E/W street on the south side of the temple (as well as the zero axis for N/S streets).

The coordinate system is nice, especially in Salt Lake County, where all the cities use one unified numbering system based on the Salt Lake Temple. Originally Midvale and Sandy had their own systems, but they have since joined the Salt Lake City system. However, outside of Salt Lake County, many cities that have grown into each other still use their own grid origin. In Davis County, some smaller cities will share a grid with a larger city (for example, Clearfield's grid origin is also used by Syracuse, Clinton, Sunset, and West Point). But this doesn't happen in Utah County, where there are almost 20 separate grids in use despite the different cities growing together into one suburbia.

Most cities with a grid system have a Main Street and a Center Street that serve as the grid axes, but Main Street can be either the N/S axis or the E/W axis depending on the city. In most cities along the Wasatch Front, the Main Street is a N/S road, but the Main Streets in Lehi and American Fork run E/W.

Another thing to beware of is that blocks are different sizes in different cities. In downtown Salt Lake City, anywhere east of the Jordan River and north of 45th South, a mile is 6 2/3 blocks, so 20 blocks = 3 miles. But in Orem, for example, 8 blocks is a mile.

Also take note that when going away from the 0,0 point that the even numbered addresses will be on the right hand side.

That's true for most grids, but not all of them. IIRC, in Logan when going away from 0,0 even numbers are on the left the even addresses are always on the south or east side of the street.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 01:12:31 AM by US 89 »
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nexus73

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Re: Utah
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2018, 07:52:48 PM »

The Temple streets are also common sources of confusion. Many people think South Temple should run south from the temple, when it's actually the E/W street on the south side of the temple (as well as the zero axis for N/S streets).

The coordinate system is nice, especially in Salt Lake County, where all the cities use one unified numbering system based on the Salt Lake Temple. Originally Midvale and Sandy had their own systems, but they have since joined the Salt Lake City system. However, outside of Salt Lake County, many cities that have grown into each other still use their own grid origin. In Davis County, some smaller cities will share a grid with a larger city (for example, Clearfield's grid origin is also used by Syracuse, Clinton, Sunset, and West Point). But this doesn't happen in Utah County, where there are almost 20 separate grids in use despite the different cities growing together into one suburbia.

Most cities with a grid system have a Main Street and a Center Street that serve as the grid axes, but Main Street can be either the N/S axis or the E/W axis depending on the city. In most cities along the Wasatch Front, the Main Street is a N/S road, but the Main Streets in Lehi and American Fork run E/W.

Another thing to beware of is that blocks are different sizes in different cities. In downtown Salt Lake City, anywhere east of the Jordan River and north of 45th South, a mile is 6 2/3 blocks, so 20 blocks = 3 miles. But in Orem, for example, 8 blocks is a mile.

Also take note that when going away from the 0,0 point that the even numbered addresses will be on the right hand side.

That's true for most grids, but not all of them. IIRC, in Logan when going away from 0,0 even numbers are on the left.


Never did make it to Logan.  I wonder why they are different?  Maybe being north of SLC is the reason.

In Provo, 0,0 is where Center (E/W) meets University Avenue (N/S).  Orem has the usual Center/Main combination.

Rick

« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 12:48:57 PM by nexus73 »
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2018, 01:05:48 AM »

Also take note that when going away from the 0,0 point that the even numbered addresses will be on the right hand side.
That's true for most grids, but not all of them. IIRC, in Logan when going away from 0,0 even numbers are on the left.
Never did make it to Logan.  I wonder why they are different?  Maybe being north of SLC is the reason.

Based on this full listing of all address grids in Utah, it appears to be strictly a Cache County thing. In Cache County, even addresses are always on the south and east sides, and odd addresses on the north and west sides. So if you’re going east or north, the numbering does follow the pattern in the rest of the state, but going south or west breaks the pattern.
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Rover_0

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Re: Utah
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2018, 01:08:28 AM »

Also take note that when going away from the 0,0 point that the even numbered addresses will be on the right hand side.
That's true for most grids, but not all of them. IIRC, in Logan when going away from 0,0 even numbers are on the left.
Never did make it to Logan.  I wonder why they are different?  Maybe being north of SLC is the reason.

Based on this full listing of all address grids in Utah, it appears to be strictly a Cache County thing. In Cache County, even addresses are always on the south and east sides, and odd addresses on the north and west sides. So if you’re going east or north, the numbering does follow the pattern in the rest of the state, but going south or west breaks the pattern.
After having spent enough time in Downtown Salt Lake City, I've noticed that Main St is the 0 E/W line, but in the southern half of the valley, State St (which US-89 follows south of 400 S) is the 0 E/W line. At what point does the 0 E/W line switch from Main St to State St?

XT1710-02

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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2018, 01:41:02 AM »

Also take note that when going away from the 0,0 point that the even numbered addresses will be on the right hand side.
That's true for most grids, but not all of them. IIRC, in Logan when going away from 0,0 even numbers are on the left.
Never did make it to Logan.  I wonder why they are different?  Maybe being north of SLC is the reason.

Based on this full listing of all address grids in Utah, it appears to be strictly a Cache County thing. In Cache County, even addresses are always on the south and east sides, and odd addresses on the north and west sides. So if you’re going east or north, the numbering does follow the pattern in the rest of the state, but going south or west breaks the pattern.
After having spent enough time in Downtown Salt Lake City, I've noticed that Main St is the 0 E/W line, but in the southern half of the valley, State St (which US-89 follows south of 400 S) is the 0 E/W line. At what point does the 0 E/W line switch from Main St to State St?
XT1710-02

It’s a gradual shift that happens between Murray (5300 S) and Midvale (7200 S). As you head south from downtown, Main is 0 E/W and State is 100 E. Main St ends just past 45th South. At 53rd, State begins to veer slightly west of south. By the time you get to 72nd it straightens out again and follows the 0 E/W line.

My guess for why that happens is because the northeast quarter of the valley (north of 48th South, east of the Jordan River) is laid out based on the downtown SLC grid, but most arterials in the rest of the valley are placed on PLSS section lines. The section-line road that ran along the 0 E/W line in the south valley probably was built separately from State Street in the north valley, which was the major road heading south from downtown. Early planners probably figured it best to connect those two roads into one major road, which became US 91 (now US 89).

It’s similar to how 3300 South, a street based on the downtown grid, bends to the south to line up with the section-line road 3500 South. The same happens with 39th/41st and 45th/47th South as well.
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i-215

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Re: Utah
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2018, 04:50:19 PM »

Quote
It’s a gradual shift that happens between Murray (5300 S) and Midvale (7200 S). As you head south from downtown, Main is 0 E/W and State is 100 E. Main St ends just past 45th South. At 53rd, State begins to veer slightly west of south. By the time you get to 72nd it straightens out again and follows the 0 E/W line.

Aha!  I knew State Street was ZERO.

So I grew up traveling around the suburbs and always treated State as the east-west centerline.  But as I've talked with young urbanites, they condescendingly roll their eyes to remind me that State is "actually 100 East."  lol

Turns out we were both right!
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2018, 07:26:26 PM »

I love that Utah is into building more freeways, but what I don't like is when they keep at-grade intersections where they intersect other freeways, or don't plan for future interchanges like this. For example:

I-15/SR-7: when the Southern Parkway was built, UDOT could have done whatever the hell they wanted to connect it with I-15, since there was absolutely nothing down there. They could have even done a cloverleaf. But they built a SPUI. And if they wait long enough, there's going to be too much development close to the interchange to do anything. If nothing else, they need to build a direct ramp from southbound I-15 to SR-7 east, and vice versa.

I-15/SR-154: There was plenty of room to do something good with this back when it was first built. But instead they built a SPUI, and now there's been so much development close to the interchange that I don't see much room for improvement.

SR-201/SR-154: UDOT definitely didn't plan for this one. This DDI is congested every single time I drive through it. Supposedly an interchange upgrade is coming in the 2025-2034 time period, but I don't see how they can do a full system interchange without taking out a lot of industrial developments.

I-84/US-89: To be fair, this partial cloverleaf (not sure what exactly to call it) dates back to when I-84 was first constructed. But now that 89 is a freeway from 84 south through SR-193, this really should be upgraded. Upgrading it to a full cloverleaf looks unlikely, but maybe they can work a flyover ramp or something in there.

US-40/I-80: I'm glad they have direct ramps for the highest-traffic movements, but why the rest of it was converted to a SPUI is beyond me. There's plenty of room to add cloverleaf ramps for the remaining movements.
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i-215

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Re: Utah
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2018, 02:46:28 PM »

I really think it is (was) just a cost savings thing.

These regular interchanges "get the job done" and are just starting to fail under rush hour conditions.  If the state had built the full system interchange 20 years ago, it would be 1/2-to-3/4 through its usable life and time for replacement soon.  The cost would have been more than just paying to build it later when we'll need it.

That said, UDOT made a big mistake not purchasing ROW for full system interchanges when they had the chance.  Sure, SR-201 at Bangerter probably has enough room.  US-40 at I-80 is good.  But Bangerter and I-15?  Eeeks!  When it comes time to put in that EB to NB flyover, that'll be a very expensive buyout to acquire the land.

I'm pleased to see that MVC has all the system interchanges planned and the land acquired from day one.  The initial interchanges won't have all the flyovers, but it'll be easy to add in later because they are already designed and even partially graded for them.  The only major oversight on MVC was not planning a direct connection to the east-west Bangerter Hwy section.  It may be too late now, with all the homes going in between the two facilities.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 02:48:32 PM by i-215 »
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2018, 03:08:50 PM »

Sure, SR-201 at Bangerter probably has enough room.

Really? The south side looks OK (mostly because of that frontage road) but I don’t see how you could upgrade the interchange without taking out at least some of the industrial development to the north.

The only major oversight on MVC was not planning a direct connection to the east-west Bangerter Hwy section.  It may be too late now, with all the homes going in between the two facilities.

I don’t know how official this is, but KSL ran an article a few months ago describing the Point of the Mountain Commission’s plan for the area. Their map showed the Bangerter-MVC connector you mention, as well as a freeway connector between I-15 and MVC north of Thanksgiving Point (in addition to 2100 North):

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Re: Utah
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2018, 09:21:43 PM »

Okay, so I used mapfrappe to compare a California stack interchange (at scale) with SR201/Bangerter and I-15/Bangerter:




I certainly see your point.

Quote
Their map showed the Bangerter-MVC connector you mention

I pray that could be the case.  But I just don't see it showing up on WFRC's regional transportation plan.  I think it did once about 10 years ago but then was deleted.  It's a shame because all the possible routes, including double-tracking 13400 South, are quickly becoming developed and landlocked.
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2018, 10:45:32 AM »

On a recent trip to southern Utah, I noticed the US 89/UT 12 intersection has had some serious safety upgrades since I was there last. First of all, when GSV went through in 2014, it was essentially an unsignalized seagull intersection. But since then, they have added sensors that detect when vehicles are approaching the intersection. On US 89, there are "watch for entering traffic when flashing" signs, and there are "oncoming traffic when flashing" type signs on UT 12.

I've never seen anything like this done in Utah before. Makes me wonder why UDOT didn't just build an interchange, if it really needed that much safety improvement.
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Re: Utah
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2018, 01:29:44 AM »

If it doesn't yet warrant signalization, I can't see UDOT paying money to grade separate it (as much as I would approve grade separation, personally).
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epzik8

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Re: Utah
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2018, 11:16:30 PM »

Today I went from Provo to Big Cottonwood and back, and got some more of I-215, and part of UT-190.
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US 89

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Re: Utah
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2018, 01:03:45 PM »

If UDOT keeps this up, I may have to change my personal text.

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Rover_0

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Re: Utah
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2018, 01:04:02 PM »

I don't think this needs any description:


It's good to see US-189 signed along US-40, but this and the EB 40/SB 189 signage at SR-32 could afford to be cleaned up a tad.

XT1710-02

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Re: Utah
« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2018, 11:52:12 PM »

If UDOT keeps this up, I may have to change my personal text.



When passing through there earlier this month, I did not see any US 189 signs from I-80 westbound. I was hoping there would be at least a US 189 trailblazer pointing from I-80 west to US 40-189 southeast.
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Rover_0

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Re: Utah
« Reply #70 on: July 28, 2018, 02:08:39 PM »

I don't think this needs any description:


It's good to see US-189 signed along US-40, but this and the EB 40/SB 189 signage at SR-32 could afford to be cleaned up a tad.

XT1710-02
Of course, an "East I-80" shield and a new assembly for US-40 and WB I-80 would make this assembly look a lot cleaner.

XT1710-02

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Re: Utah
« Reply #71 on: July 30, 2018, 04:42:36 PM »

I-80 in Parleys Canyon to close two nights this week — to build Utah’s first-ever bridge just for wildlife

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2018/07/30/i-parleys-canyon-close/

Quote
The closures could add 90 minutes for drivers between Salt Lake City and Park City — who would need to detour to Interstate 84 through Morgan Canyon, or U.S. 189 through Provo Canyon and then U.S. 40 back to Park City.

But wildlife may appreciate the sacrifice. “After all, we are in the animal’s habitat up here,” said UDOT spokesman John Gleason.

How does UDOT know that wildlife will use the bridge at the top of 7,028-foot Parleys Summit?

“They won’t have much choice,” Gleason said. He explains that 8-foot-tall wildlife fences have been placed on both sides of the bridge for 3.5 miles, on both sides of the freeway.

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Re: Utah
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2018, 05:21:59 PM »

UDOT unveiled six possible alternatives for improving I-15 (and surrounding streets) between Exits 10 and 13 in Washington City, near St. George.
http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2018/08/09/mgk-city-council-gets-preview-of-options-for-i-15-milepost-11-interchange-project/

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Re: Utah
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2018, 09:38:22 PM »

Apropos of nothing, we're currently having quite a storm here in southern Utah -- and the mapping software at KUTV has somehow decided to show ghost route UT 300 (the Snow Canyon scenic drive), even though it's not posted as such anywhere at all.

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Re: Utah
« Reply #74 on: August 12, 2018, 12:58:34 AM »

Apropos of nothing, we're currently having quite a storm here in southern Utah -- and the mapping software at KUTV has somehow decided to show ghost route UT 300 (the Snow Canyon scenic drive), even though it's not posted as such anywhere at all.



As it turns out, SR 300 hasn’t existed since 1996, when it became a separate segment of SR 8 (which interestingly appears to be the only state route not shown). Plus, the Snow Canyon road was completely removed from the state system in 1999.

Also, there’s no such thing as a “Flash Flood Advisory”. It’s an “urban and small stream flood advisory” or if that’s too long, “areal flood advisory” or “flood advisory” work too.
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