Most terrible speed limits.

[Ben114]

What is the point of a 60 mph school zone? If school zones are designed to protect kids, a car going 60 mph hitting a kid is going to be fatal no matter what.

Maybe it's there to make people feel good if they almost hit a kid.

Example: *going 60 and sees a kid*, immediately brakes, "Phew, I'm such a good person for thinking about a kid's life, because they are our future."

Interesting perspective. Probably enough rural moms complained and the state installed it just to get them to shut up.

I'm sure it's the same everywhere else: people complain about people driving too fast around their children, municipalities or state governments lower the speed limits to get the parents to shut up, people continue to speed and nothing ever changes.

But why would they choose 60 if they wanted the moms to shut up?

[wolfiefrick]

What is the point of a 60 mph school zone? If school zones are designed to protect kids, a car going 60 mph hitting a kid is going to be fatal no matter what.

Maybe it's there to make people feel good if they almost hit a kid.

Example: *going 60 and sees a kid*, immediately brakes, "Phew, I'm such a good person for thinking about a kid's life, because they are our future."

Interesting perspective. Probably enough rural moms complained and the state installed it just to get them to shut up.

I'm sure it's the same everywhere else: people complain about people driving too fast around their children, municipalities or state governments lower the speed limits to get the parents to shut up, people continue to speed and nothing ever changes.

But why would they choose 60 if they wanted the moms to shut up?

Well, I think the speed limit up there on US-54 is something like 70 mph, so I suppose they couldn't have taken it too much lower than 60 mph in the school zone or else other motorists would start complaining that it was too low.

[kphoger]

What is the point of a 60 mph school zone? If school zones are designed to protect kids, a car going 60 mph hitting a kid is going to be fatal no matter what.

Maybe it's there to make people feel good if they almost hit a kid.

Example: *going 60 and sees a kid*, immediately brakes, "Phew, I'm such a good person for thinking about a kid's life, because they are our future."

Interesting perspective. Probably enough rural moms complained and the state installed it just to get them to shut up.

I'm sure it's the same everywhere else: people complain about people driving too fast around their children, municipalities or state governments lower the speed limits to get the parents to shut up, people continue to speed and nothing ever changes.

But why would they choose 60 if they wanted the moms to shut up?

Well, I think the speed limit up there on US-54 is something like 70 mph, so I suppose they couldn't have taken it too much lower than 60 mph in the school zone or else other motorists would start complaining that it was too low.

Kids crossing the road aren't the only concern at a school, .  There are also a lot of buses and cars slowing down, exiting, entering.  That sort of hazard doesn't require as drastic of a slow-down, especially for a semi-rural school where kids are less likely to be walking in the first place.

[wolfiefrick]

Well, I think the speed limit up there on US-54 is something like 70 mph, so I suppose they couldn't have taken it too much lower than 60 mph in the school zone or else other motorists would start complaining that it was too low.

Kids crossing the road aren't the only concern at a school, .  There are also a lot of buses and cars slowing down, exiting, entering.  That sort of hazard doesn't require as drastic of a slow-down, especially for a semi-rural school where kids are less likely to be walking in the first place.

Fair enough. I'm just used to being in the suburbs and the speed limits are already low here to provide for security of students. I guess I just don't get how 60 mph is going to help the situation.

[kphoger]

I guess I just don't get how 60 mph is going to help the situation.

Because 60 is less than 70.

There are also other things at play in a school zone, such as increased traffic fines and whatnot, that aren't even dependent on the speed limit at all.

[Ben114]

What kind of town would decide a 70 mile per hour road is alright for a school?

60 for these school limits are unnecessary since they are only in effect during arrival (7-8 am) and dismissal (2-3 pm).

[kphoger]

What kind of town would decide a 70 mile per hour road is alright for a school?

60 for these school limits are unnecessary since they are only in effect during arrival (7-8 am) and dismissal (2-3 pm).

It wasn't long after that section of US-54 was twinned and bumped up to 70 mph that I first drove it (nearly 20 years ago now), and the 60-mph school zone signs were there back then–so it's entirely possible that, when the school buildings were located there, it was just a regular two-lane highway.  Also, did you look at the map?  The schools are actually on a side road (Thunderbird Drive), not the highway itself.

And I take it you haven't driven much in the western states, where several states post rural two-lane highways at 70 mph.  Texas has rural two-lane highways posted at 75 mph.  Considering that a lot of districts have been constructing schools in rural areas, I doubt it's all that uncommon to find a school along a 70-mph (or evern 75-mph) highway.

[kphoger]

It took me a little bit, but not too terribly long, to find another school along a 70-mph highway.

Grady ISD is at the corner of TX-176 and FM-829.

TX-176 has a speed limit of 75 there, but it slows down to 50 mph in advance of the school and has a 35-mph school zone.

FM-829, on the other hand, has the same 35-mph school zone but does not drop the regular speed limit down from 70 mph.  The speed of traffic is mitigated by a stop sign at the junction, but it is technically a 70-mph highway with a school driveway.

I'm sure if I looked longer, I could come up with a better example, but I'm not that crazy.

[US 89]

In Utah, every single school zone is 20 mph. It's even worse in New Mexico (or at least the Albuquerque area), where most school zones are 15 mph.

There is a 45 mph school zone in Big Sky, Montana on US 191 (limit otherwise is 60 mph).

The painful thing about a lot of school zones is that they're on timers, which means the lights will be flashing even on days when school isn't in session. This seems not to be the case in Utah, where the flashing lights are usually turned on manually by the crossing guards.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

In Utah, every single school zone is 20 mph. It's even worse in New Mexico (or at least the Albuquerque area), where most school zones are 15 mph.

I have no issue going 15 or 20 mph when the school speed limit extends across a reasonable area and it looks like the roadway was actually designed with students' safety in mind. What I find messed up is 15 or 20 mph school speed limits on wide arterial death traps with multilane uncontrolled crosswalks, no crossing guards, and no other safety treatments for crossing students. I still obey the limit, but I can't imagine any self-respecting engineer finding a situation like that OK.

[wxfree]

It took me a little bit, but not too terribly long, to find another school along a 70-mph highway.

Grady ISD is at the corner of TX-176 and FM-829.

TX-176 has a speed limit of 75 there, but it slows down to 50 mph in advance of the school and has a 35-mph school zone.

FM-829, on the other hand, has the same 35-mph school zone but does not drop the regular speed limit down from 70 mph.  The speed of traffic is mitigated by a stop sign at the junction, but it is technically a 70-mph highway with a school driveway.

I'm sure if I looked longer, I could come up with a better example, but I'm not that crazy.

The standard in Texas, specified by the speed zone manual, is that the maximum school zone speed limit is 35.  If the regular speed limit is above 55, there is a school zone with a limit of 55 on each side.  On TX 176, the regular speed limit reduces to 65 as it goes through town.  The intermediate school zone speed limit of 50 is not standard, but it does maintain the standard of limiting speed changes to 15 mph.  That standard is disregarded for school zones.

An example of the standard setup is in Meridian, where the speed limit increases from 60 to 70 as the road is leaving town, but there's a school zone intermediate limit of 55, with a regular school zone limit of 35 and another intermediate zone on the other side.  At non-zone times, the limit is 70.

https://goo.gl/maps/vYEbHjTm4H52

[thenetwork]

Colorado can be as low as 15 MPH in a school zone on a residential 2-lane.  Then again, there are a few zones along state/U.S. highways that are no different than the regular speed limit.  The "flashing light zone" times just give the police the ability to double the fines for speeding (and likely other offenses) by the school during pick-up and drop off times.

Ohio was 20 MPH regardless.  I remember some 55 MPH expressways (US-20) dropping to 20 MPH zones during certain times.

[Buck87]

Ohio was 20 MPH regardless.  I remember some 55 MPH expressways (US-20) dropping to 20 MPH zones during certain times.

Yep, 2 of those were in the Bellevue school district, located on either side of town. Both of those schools have since closed (along with 3 others that were all replaced by a central elementary), which happened just a few years before US 20 was bumped up to 60 mph.

[thenetwork]

Ohio was 20 MPH regardless.  I remember some 55 MPH expressways (US-20) dropping to 20 MPH zones during certain times.

Yep, 2 of those were in the Bellevue school district, located on either side of town. Both of those schools have since closed (along with 3 others that were all replaced by a central elementary), which happened just a few years before US 20 was bumped up to 60 mph.

Exactly what & where I was thinking!  I miss the days when I would take US-20/SR-18 from Toledo to Akron to avoid the tolls on the Turnpike.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Zack's Way in the Town of Poughkeepsie, NY has pretty low volumes but is an egregious offender. 30 mph on a straight, flat, ~28 ft wide road: relatively good roadside conditions, and completely undeveloped with no driveways or cross streets. As a bonus, there are needless no-passing markings on the entire 3/4-mile straightaway, although if you actually did 30 I'm sure you'd be passed anyways.

This is one of my gripes with allowing "suburban towns" to set area speed limits. City and village speed limits I have no issue with, but a lot of suburban towns in NY have large areas with more rural character where a 30 mph limit is hardly appropriate. The Town of Poughkeepsie is especially bad about signing the town speed limit on inappropriate roads where a study would indicate a linear speed limit of at least 10 mph over the town speed limit. The default in these areas should be 55 and it should be incumbent on the town to perform a study to post a lower limit.

[Roadgeekteen]

Zack's Way in the Town of Poughkeepsie, NY has pretty low volumes but is an egregious offender. 30 mph on a straight, flat, ~28 ft wide road: relatively good roadside conditions, and completely undeveloped with no driveways or cross streets. As a bonus, there are needless no-passing markings on the entire 3/4-mile straightaway, although if you actually did 30 I'm sure you'd be passed anyways.

This is one of my gripes with allowing "suburban towns" to set area speed limits. City and village speed limits I have no issue with, but a lot of suburban towns in NY have large areas with more rural character where a 30 mph limit is hardly appropriate. The Town of Poughkeepsie is especially bad about signing the town speed limit on inappropriate roads where a study would indicate a linear speed limit of at least 10 mph over the town speed limit. The default in these areas should be 55 and it should be incumbent on the town to perform a study to post a lower limit.

What should that road be? It could be 55 which is crazy.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Zack's Way in the Town of Poughkeepsie, NY has pretty low volumes but is an egregious offender. 30 mph on a straight, flat, ~28 ft wide road: relatively good roadside conditions, and completely undeveloped with no driveways or cross streets. As a bonus, there are needless no-passing markings on the entire 3/4-mile straightaway, although if you actually did 30 I'm sure you'd be passed anyways.

This is one of my gripes with allowing "suburban towns" to set area speed limits. City and village speed limits I have no issue with, but a lot of suburban towns in NY have large areas with more rural character where a 30 mph limit is hardly appropriate. The Town of Poughkeepsie is especially bad about signing the town speed limit on inappropriate roads where a study would indicate a linear speed limit of at least 10 mph over the town speed limit. The default in these areas should be 55 and it should be incumbent on the town to perform a study to post a lower limit.

What should that road be? It could be 55 which is crazy.

USLIMITS2 suggested 45 or 50 depending on if you classify it as undeveloped or developed. Even 55 would still be more appropriate than 30 imo.

[webny99]

Let's play another round of "guess the speed limit".

What would you guess (or estimate to be a reasonable limit) for this?
No looking until you make a guess. 

[Roadgeekteen]

Let's play another round of "guess the speed limit".

What would you guess (or estimate to be a reasonable limit) for this?
No looking until you make a guess. 

40-45, 35 at lowest. Maybe even 50.

[Flint1979]

Let's play another round of "guess the speed limit".

What would you guess (or estimate to be a reasonable limit) for this?
No looking until you make a guess. 

I'd say 40 mph.

[jakeroot]

What would you guess (or estimate to be a reasonable limit) for this?
No looking until you make a guess. 

If there weren't a shoulder, I'd have guessed 40. 45 is my guess.
...
After seeing the limit, that does seem off from what it should be.

[webny99]

What would you guess (or estimate to be a reasonable limit) for this?
No looking until you make a guess. 

If there weren't a shoulder, I'd have guessed 40. 45 is my guess.
...
After seeing the limit, that does seem off from what it should be.

Yep, 35 mph! 

Try doing this without ever exceeding 35 mph. Impossible!
I have literally set the cruise at 55 mph on the rare occasion, such as an early morning, when I have it to myself. Granted, I cherry-picked what is probably the most "rural" segment. But still, 45 mph for the entire corridor is not unreasonable at all.

[Flint1979]

What would you guess (or estimate to be a reasonable limit) for this?
No looking until you make a guess. 

If there weren't a shoulder, I'd have guessed 40. 45 is my guess.
...
After seeing the limit, that does seem off from what it should be.

Yep, 35 mph! 

Try doing this without ever exceeding 35 mph. Impossible!
I have literally set the cruise at 55 mph on the rare occasion, such as an early morning, when I have it to myself. Granted, I cherry-picked what is probably the most "rural" segment. But still, 45 mph for the entire corridor is not unreasonable at all.

I've hit 55 mph on roads like this in Michigan. There are a lot of roads in northern Oakland County that are like 45 mph but you'd think they should be like 55 mph.

I think M-20 between Midland and Mt. Pleasant should be 65 mph, it's currently 55 and has been for years.

[Techknow]

Airport Street at Half Moon Bay, CA is just like that, it is posted with a speed limit of 35 MPH and is a mile long straight road. I driven on it and cruised at 50, there was hardly enough traffic there and it borders a regional airport so I wouldn't have to worry about stopping when one wants to turn

[Roadgeekteen]

Airport Street at Half Moon Bay, CA is just like that, it is posted with a speed limit of 35 MPH and is a mile long straight road. I driven on it and cruised at 50, there was hardly enough traffic there and it borders a regional airport so I wouldn't have to worry about stopping when one wants to turn

35 seems about right as it's narrow, but I'd put it at 40.