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Author Topic: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA  (Read 14933 times)

triplemultiplex

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2018, 10:14:16 AM »

2029?  And they've already cleared out all that r/w?
Panning around on aerials, looks like 100+ homes have been leveled in the N Spoke Corridor and along I-90.  Turning back the clock, it looks like they've been buying and clearing properties for a decade already.
I appreciate planning ahead, but jeez, that's a long time for urban land to sit vacant.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2018, 04:09:50 PM »

2029 is only 11 years away. Some road projects have lingered for far longer before they were finally built.
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JasonOfORoads

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2018, 08:05:44 PM »

2029?  And they've already cleared out all that r/w?
Panning around on aerials, looks like 100+ homes have been leveled in the N Spoke Corridor and along I-90.  Turning back the clock, it looks like they've been buying and clearing properties for a decade already.
I appreciate planning ahead, but jeez, that's a long time for urban land to sit vacant.

I can't speak for Washington, but in Oregon the McMinnville Bypass had ROW set aside to widen it to 4 lanes in the future. They even left space for expansion beneath the overpasses. This was back in 1959 -- and it's still mostly 2 lanes to this day.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2018, 09:46:22 PM »

Thatís a piss poor excuse just because other projects have taken ridiculous amounts of time to happen. Whatever the reason is, 11 years away is a very long time and is insane.
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Hurricane Rex

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2018, 09:56:29 PM »

Thatís a piss poor excuse just because other projects have taken ridiculous amounts of time to happen. Whatever the reason is, 11 years away is a very long time and is insane.
Although I agree, at least the have a timeline *cough cough* Newberg-Dundee Bypass *cough cough*
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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2018, 06:26:24 PM »

Building a new freeway in an existing urban area, in the 21st century, is going to be difficult no matter how much money you throw at it. Best thing to do is to not plan around it and maybe the project will become entirely unnecessary in a few decades, with improved traffic control systems, higher transit patronage, and the world-saving self-driving vehicle.

compdude787

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2018, 05:35:13 PM »

Thatís a piss poor excuse just because other projects have taken ridiculous amounts of time to happen. Whatever the reason is, 11 years away is a very long time and is insane.

I think it has to do with funding availability.

Building a new freeway in an existing urban area, in the 21st century, is going to be difficult no matter how much money you throw at it. Best thing to do is to not plan around it and maybe the project will become entirely unnecessary in a few decades, with improved traffic control systems, higher transit patronage, and the world-saving self-driving vehicle.

I highly doubt it will become unnecessary to build this freeway. I think more people will want freeways when self driving cars become a thing. After all, they will allow for higher capacities on freeways, so that traffic will still be moving at speeds faster than on surface streets during rush hour. This will be awesome.  :D  But freeways will still be difficult to get built because of NIMBYs.  :-/

DJStephens

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2018, 08:54:53 PM »

The vast majority of any "future" freeways will be depressed and or cut and cover replacements of pre-existing elevated or at grade facilities.   The political difficulties of all new routes in urban settings are extreme. 
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jakeroot

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2018, 01:45:08 AM »

I believe the completion has been delayed due to a soil contamination issue south of Wellesley Street. WashDOT is working with BSNF to get the area cleaned up.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/US395/NorthSpokaneCorridor/NscBlackTank.htm

The Connecting Washington budget from two summers ago funded the completion of the corridor. Money is not an issue.



But freeways will still be difficult to get built because of NIMBYs.  :-/

It's not just NIMBYs. It's also those who are in the path of the freeway, who are displaced as a result.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 01:47:55 AM by jakeroot »
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Bobby5280

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2018, 10:21:30 PM »

Quote from: DJStephens
The vast majority of any "future" freeways will be depressed and or cut and cover replacements of pre-existing elevated or at grade facilities. The political difficulties of all new routes in urban settings are extreme.

That's certainly true right now, but things can change.

Apologies in advance for the long post. More often than not these stridently anti-freeway, new urbanist places also carry very high living costs and soaring inflation rates on those living costs. They preach "sustainability," but ignore the money math of their Utopian vision and what it means to any working stiff in the city who isn't rich.

Between now and the year 2030 this nation could go through quite a lot of economic turmoil. Online merchants currently control 11% of all retail; that number could be 18% by 2022. Retail is but one part of overall digital disruption. Manufacturing lines are increasingly automated. Price Waterhouse Coopers published a report saying as many as 45% of current jobs could be automated through various means, like rapidly improving AI technology. Big companies could save a fortune in wages, but how would the national economy handle the loss of so many millions of jobs? And then there's the wild card of our nation's declining birth rate, hitting new all time lows. That could be bad if the trend is extended over a decade or more. America's economy and even its demographics are increasingly out of balance. That's not exactly good "bedrock" on which New Urbanists can build out their dream vision.

Our nation will adapt to changes that take place in the years and decades ahead. How it adapts won't be very predictable or pain free. There's no telling what will happen for certain. But these high priced urban areas with hyper-inflated real estate costs could see a big come-down. That could change a lot of things, including how people feel about roads, light rail, etc. Maybe new freeways in urban areas could still be capped and covered with parks, green space, etc. Still, something has to be done about that cost inflation on these projects.

I think self-driving vehicles will actually create a boom, not just in street and highway construction, but also innovations in parking lots/garages, hotel designs and more. The personal computing revolution got America's economy out of a funk in the early 1980's. A revolution in automobile technology could do the same in the 2020's.

As for the North Spokane Corridor, it's odds for completion are better than some others. Substantial progress has already been made. Its next 3 miles of ROW extending South are fairly clear of buildings. A bunch of property near the future I-90 interchange has been cleared. It's just that last 1.5 miles South of the river that have to be spanned.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 10:36:13 PM by Bobby5280 »
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DJStephens

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2018, 08:42:14 PM »

Have to say agree with most of what you've said.  Have seen wealthy ex-Californians move here (New Mexico) and work to mold this area to what they left.   They tend to vote in a bloc and have voting participation of 80 - 90 %, so they are getting what they want.  Road diets, regressive planning and design, over densification of land use, bizarre growth patterns and structures, etc.   
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:31:07 PM by DJStephens »
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vdeane

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2018, 02:51:26 PM »

I was watching a presentation a couple weeks ago given by Jim Kuntsler.  He thinks that many of the technologies that the sustainable urbanism people think will save us won't pan out, and that this combined with economic trends will cause a collapse of not only suburbia but also large and medium-sized cities as well.  He was saying that we may go back to a more 19th-century style lifestyle, with our current transportation system, particularly trucking, collapsing for long-haul movement, with society re-centered around small cities (think Saratoga Springs or Troy small) along waterways and railroads.  His books are available on Amazon and elsewhere for anyone interested in reading more.  Certainly could affect things like freeway development in the future if his predictions come to pass.
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DJStephens

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2018, 06:21:41 PM »

So if trucking collapsed, what would replace it?  Horse drawn canal boats and steam engined trains??  The trend seems to be of an ever greater segmentation of consumer "choice" - with an ever greater amount of imported widgets to consume.  Meaning more and more trucks on the road.    Do have to say like what you quoted, being the future being a return to simpler less consumptive times.     
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:26:40 PM by DJStephens »
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2018, 08:57:22 PM »

I donít think that will happen. Some how some way weíll find a way to continue on with materialistic obsessions and over consumption. Iím that way and Iíll admit it. No shame in my game. But thatís just a disclaimer. When I sit back and look, we have ways found a way to move forward. Sometimes we might take a step back or two but we always move forward. The only thing I see causing something like that is nuclear winter or a catastrophic natural event such as Yellowstone erupting or and asteroid colliding with the planet. Then we might have problems. Real problems. Global warming or issues like how to fund infrastructure and lifestyles, those are really nothing serious and happen very slowly. Theyíre problems, but manageable ones.

At 24 years old, thatís my take on that issue. People just need to relax and lay back on the knee jerk reactions so many have today.
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Bobby5280

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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 04:31:12 PM »

There are growing trends of younger generations spending more of their money on experiences (dining out, concerts, vacations & other fun stuff) and not as much on tangible goods that take up room in one's living space. If you're in a living situation where you're in some small apartment, possibly with one or more roomates you'll have only so much room for "stuff."

However, I do not see cities and suburbs collapsing anytime soon.

If anything, I expect small rural towns to continue shrinking and dying off. There is no sign that big numbers of young people want to move out to the sticks, even if they can live on the cheap there. Good opportunity is limited in little towns and so are social prospects (like finding girlfriends or a wife). Rising costs of health care, hospice care and health insurance will force more aging Americans into cities of at least some substantial size (where such services are much closer). Most small towns have declining tax bases. They're finding it increasingly difficult to maintain local infrastructure and fund basic services (police, fire dept, garbage removal, etc). Companies providing mobile phone service and broadband Internet service aren't going to serve little towns with the latest technologies -at least not without a giant amount of government funding. So that's another advantage for cities. If the declining birth rate in the US turns into a long term trend it will affect many things. Enrollment levels in public schools will drop; small school districts will have a tough time justifying their existence. Population decline could cause housing prices to drop in many places. That'll be great if you're looking for a place to buy/rent. It'll be lousy if you already own your property.
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Re: North Spokane Corridor - US 395 in Spokane, WA
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 08:30:44 PM »

One thing that's worth noting is that Kuntsler believes that fossil fuels will eventually run out and/or become too expensive to extract and that no technology will emerge to provide an adequate replacement.  In short, the energy to run the global economy as we know it simply won't be there.  Cities, alas, can't sustain themselves on local, low-energy traditional non-mechanized farming.
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