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Author Topic: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston  (Read 4538 times)

longhorn

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I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« on: July 08, 2017, 03:19:02 PM »

Old article and behind a paywall, but states I-10 will be expanded to three lanes each way between SAT and HOU. With I-35 project winding down, TxDot can move on to this next major project.

http://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/TxDOT-proposes-adding-lanes-to-I-10-6180343.php

Read on another post that on weekends I-10 can be parking lot even in rural areas between San Antonio and Houston.
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MaxConcrete

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 05:37:50 PM »

I've learned not to return to Houston on I-10 west at the end of holiday and long weekends due to the long backups.

Realistically, we're not going to see a six-lane I-10 for the entire distance between Houston and San Antonio for a very long time, maybe never. However, I think we'll get six lanes between Houston and Columbus in 10 to 15 years, and that will solve most of the problem.

In June TxDOT awarded a $142 million contract for reconstruction and expansion to 6 lanes for 6 miles west of Houston where the existing freeway is reduced to 4 lanes, from Brookshire to the Brazos River.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/06073201.htm

Estimate   $142,378,747.21   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $141,496,478.10   -0.62%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.
Bidder 2   $142,921,883.90   +0.38%   JAMES CONSTRUCTION GROUP, L.L.C.
Bidder 3   $146,660,739.22   +3.01%   BALFOUR BEATTY INFRASTRUCTURE, INC.
Bidder 4   $149,830,396.24   +5.23%   PULICE CONSTRUCTION, INC.
Bidder 5   $152,474,810.66   +7.09%   WEBBER, LLC


The next section section going west is slated for bidding in August 2018, 9.7 miles estimated at $233 million.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2018/austin.htm#027102055

At $25 million per mile, the 38 miles from Brookshire to Coluimbus is going to cost around $1 billion.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 05:58:46 PM by MaxConcrete »
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nexus73

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 06:33:40 PM »

Too bad we can't make it a national priority to upgrade I-10 to a 6-lane minimum across the continent.  It is the only coast to coast freeway that can be figured to be open during the winter.  Lots of truck traffic, tourists and regional interurban travel takes place on I-10. 

Rick
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2017, 05:11:50 PM »

There is definitely a good number of I-10 segments that could use upgrades from 2 lanes to 3 lanes in both directions. However, I-10 goes through some pretty remote area too. I think it would be strange to have a 3-3 highway setup in West Texas yet still have all those damned at-grade gravel driveways connecting to the highway. With such a sub-standard thing being allowed to fly on an Interstate in West Texas one could make a good argument to sign I-40 all the way to Bakersfield, CA.

Whether it can be built soon or not for many years, it's very easy to justify a 3-3 upgrade for all of rural I-10 between Houston and San Antonio. The other thing that is very easy to justify: upgrading all of US-290 between Houston and Austin to Interstate quality, even 3 lanes in both directions the whole way.
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sparker

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2017, 09:09:08 PM »

Too bad we can't make it a national priority to upgrade I-10 to a 6-lane minimum across the continent.  It is the only coast to coast freeway that can be figured to be open during the winter.  Lots of truck traffic, tourists and regional interurban travel takes place on I-10. 

Rick
There is definitely a good number of I-10 segments that could use upgrades from 2 lanes to 3 lanes in both directions. However, I-10 goes through some pretty remote area too. I think it would be strange to have a 3-3 highway setup in West Texas yet still have all those damned at-grade gravel driveways connecting to the highway. With such a sub-standard thing being allowed to fly on an Interstate in West Texas one could make a good argument to sign I-40 all the way to Bakersfield, CA.

Whether it can be built soon or not for many years, it's very easy to justify a 3-3 upgrade for all of rural I-10 between Houston and San Antonio. The other thing that is very easy to justify: upgrading all of US-290 between Houston and Austin to Interstate quality, even 3 lanes in both directions the whole way.

From about Kerrville west to the I-20 merge there just isn't enough I-10 traffic to warrant 3 + 3.  However, west from there all the way to at least AZ 85 west of Phoenix there is ample traffic for such a widening.  But Houston-SA is a good start; the current facility is definitely substandard to handle the levels of traffic that it does, particularly along the narrower-than-usual segments through some of the towns (Flatonia, I'm looking at you!).  And I fully agree with Bobby's call for an Austin-Houston Interstate -- but something tells me TxDOT might utilize TX 71 for that just because it involves less mileage -- and much of such a facility could be laid atop the current alignment.  Unfortunately, that would just add to the wear & tear on I-10 east of Columbus; my preference would also be for something along 290 -- or a "hybrid" via Bastrop and TX 21, and using US 290 east of there.     
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longhorn

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 09:37:14 AM »

The improved sight lines and elevation changes have done wonders for I-35. I expect the same for I-10 from SAT to HOU. East of HOU I-10 is three to Winnie. And in Louisiana from Vinton through Lake Charles. So eventually though two sections will merge.

With I-35 wrapping up, TxDot will turn more attention to I-10.

As regards 290 between AUS and HOU. I do not know why after all of these years, its not a priority with TxDot. In the space of time, the "highway of death" State 195 from Killeen to Georgetown has been rebuilt to almost interstate levels yet nothing done to 290.
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Henry

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 10:09:13 AM »

Seeing that there's almost nothing between Houston and San Antonio, I really don't see any need for a six-lane I-10 outside those areas. But it would be very worthwhile.
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iBallasticwolf2

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 11:03:59 AM »

Seeing that there's almost nothing between Houston and San Antonio, I really don't see any need for a six-lane I-10 outside those areas. But it would be very worthwhile.
Perhaps for now the only 6 lane sections needed would be between I-410 in San Antonio and TX 130 and between Brookshire and TX 71
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longhorn

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 11:44:10 AM »

Seeing that there's almost nothing between Houston and San Antonio, I really don't see any need for a six-lane I-10 outside those areas. But it would be very worthwhile.

 Traffic from the SAT and HOU metropolitan areas necessitates the third lane in each direction.
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Chris

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2017, 12:05:42 PM »

The AADT is only around 30,000 on the middle section between Seguin and Columbus. It doesn't exceed 60,000 until you reach the Katy area.

http://www.txdot.gov/apps/statewide_mapping/StatewidePlanningMap.html

nguyenhm16

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 12:20:12 PM »

Seeing that there's almost nothing between Houston and San Antonio, I really don't see any need for a six-lane I-10 outside those areas. But it would be very worthwhile.
Perhaps for now the only 6 lane sections needed would be between I-410 in San Antonio and TX 130 and between Brookshire and TX 71

I drive the Houston-Columbus segment a lot (as well as 290, and many of the back roads in Fayette/Colorado/Austin/Bastrop counties), and this is correct.
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ukfan758

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 11:25:22 AM »

The AADT is only around 30,000 on the middle section between Seguin and Columbus. It doesn't exceed 60,000 until you reach the Katy area.

http://www.txdot.gov/apps/statewide_mapping/StatewidePlanningMap.html

If it wasn't such a major interstate and between two cities, I would probably support just adding trucklanes/3+3 for 2 to 3 miles every 10-20 miles. Considering the two cities are growing, therefore more commerce between them, it really does need to be 3+3 the entire distance.
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mwb1848

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 03:07:08 PM »

There is definitely a good number of I-10 segments that could use upgrades from 2 lanes to 3 lanes in both directions. However, I-10 goes through some pretty remote area too. I think it would be strange to have a 3-3 highway setup in West Texas yet still have all those damned at-grade gravel driveways connecting to the highway. With such a sub-standard thing being allowed to fly on an Interstate in West Texas one could make a good argument to sign I-40 all the way to Bakersfield, CA.

I assume you're referring to extending I-40 along CA 58. That highway includes at least one section which is 2-lane and undivided, has at least one at-grade intersection with a state highway, and an at-grade crossing with a railroad. I don't think it's a fair comparison to a fully four-laned I-10 in West Texas which has a few at-grade crossing with unpaved local roads and driveways.
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 05:24:13 PM »

Plans are in progress to convert CA-58 into an Interstate quality facility around Hinkley. Similar plans are in the works for Kramer Junction. It won't be long before all of CA-58 between Barstow and Mojave is all Interstate quality. Any expressway-grade segments will be easy to upgrade.

The section of CA-58 between Tehachapi and the CA-223 junction would be really difficult to upgrade fully to Interstate standard (and get I-40 extended to Bakersfield and even I-5). Some of the grades are too steep (never mind the fact a huge number of big rig trucks and other traffic take this road anyway). There is a lot of gravel access roads and driveways spilling out onto CA-58, very much in the same manner as those gravel driveways along I-10 in West Texas. Those driveways are one of the primary reasons why I-40 may never be signed through there.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 12:03:30 PM by Bobby5280 »
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Duke87

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 10:35:03 PM »

The AADT is only around 30,000 on the middle section between Seguin and Columbus. It doesn't exceed 60,000 until you reach the Katy area.

http://www.txdot.gov/apps/statewide_mapping/StatewidePlanningMap.html

But as has been stated, the issue is not the traffic counts on an ordinary day, it's the traffic counts on weekends. AADT, because it is simply an annual average, does not capture this phenomenon and indeed masks it when it is relied upon too heavily as the single metric by which to determine whether a road is operating within capacity.

It would be helpful to look at what the daily traffic is at various percentile levels. Or, to keep it simple, at what specifically the average daily traffic is Fri/Sat/Sun/Hol only.
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sparker

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 12:34:52 AM »

Plans are either in progress to convert CA-58 into an Interstate quality facility around Hinkley. Similar plans are in the works for Kramer Junction. It won't be long before all of CA-58 between Barstow and Mojave is all Interstate quality. Any expressway-grade segments will be easy to upgrade.

The section of CA-58 between Tehachapi and the CA-223 junction would be really difficult to upgrade fully to Interstate standard (and get I-40 extended to Bakersfield and even I-5). Some of the grades are too steep (never mind the fact a huge number of big rig trucks and other traffic take this road anyway). There is a lot of gravel access roads and driveways spilling out onto CA-58, very much in the same manner as those gravel driveways along I-10 in West Texas. Those driveways are one of the primary reasons why I-40 may never be signed through there.

I discussed the points stated (particularly as concerns side-road access) above in two threads in the SW region; "CA-58 Hinkley Bypass Project", reply #113, and "Westside Parkway & Centennial Corridor", reply #117.  In reality, the grades and curvature on CA 58 between CA 223 and Tehachapi aren't that much different than on I-80 between Colfax and Yuba Gap.  Some carving out of the mountainside to allow a bit of an inside shoulder in the Tehachapi Loop area might be required; most of the remainder would be likely to qualify for terrain waivers (if necessary).
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codyg1985

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 08:25:28 AM »

There is definitely a good number of I-10 segments that could use upgrades from 2 lanes to 3 lanes in both directions. However, I-10 goes through some pretty remote area too. I think it would be strange to have a 3-3 highway setup in West Texas yet still have all those damned at-grade gravel driveways connecting to the highway. With such a sub-standard thing being allowed to fly on an Interstate in West Texas one could make a good argument to sign I-40 all the way to Bakersfield, CA.

I would also argue that I-10 along most of the Florida panhandle wouldn't be justified to be three lanes in each direction yet.. I would definitely see it as a priority between Pensacola and San Antonio. Also, widen the entire length of I-12.
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Cody Goodman
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sparker

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 04:16:31 PM »

There is definitely a good number of I-10 segments that could use upgrades from 2 lanes to 3 lanes in both directions. However, I-10 goes through some pretty remote area too. I think it would be strange to have a 3-3 highway setup in West Texas yet still have all those damned at-grade gravel driveways connecting to the highway. With such a sub-standard thing being allowed to fly on an Interstate in West Texas one could make a good argument to sign I-40 all the way to Bakersfield, CA.

I would also argue that I-10 along most of the Florida panhandle wouldn't be justified to be three lanes in each direction yet.. I would definitely see it as a priority between Pensacola and San Antonio. Also, widen the entire length of I-12.

From my experience, I-10 could use a third lane in each direction from Tallahassee east to its Jacksonville terminus (and possibly even 4+4 east of I-75 -- or at least periodic additional lanes for slower trucks).  And I concur that I-12 has enough (slow) truck traffic to warrant 3+3 along its entire length; there's plenty of "chemical coast" traffic coming out of Houston and environs that turns north on I-59.
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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 09:27:58 PM »

I don't see much of a need for I-10 to be widened through much of Texas either. I spent a week & a half in San Antonio and the entire east side of the city south of the I-35 corridor barely had traffic to speak of (even on I-410) and the stretch between Houston and SA was pretty light once I got out of the Houston metro.

I do say that the portion from I-12 to I-65 could be widened to 6 lanes though (outside of the already 6 & 8 lane portion in the Gulfport-Biloxi region of course) but that's a lot easier said than done with the obvious environmental issues. I've never been to Florida as the closest I've came was Mobile so I can't speak on that.

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codyg1985

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 07:26:42 AM »

I do say that the portion from I-12 to I-65 could be widened to 6 lanes though (outside of the already 6 & 8 lane portion in the Gulfport-Biloxi region of course) but that's a lot easier said than done with the obvious environmental issues. I've never been to Florida as the closest I've came was Mobile so I can't speak on that.

There are a few high-rise bridges along I-10 in Mississippi which would make widening rather expensive, but MDOT is creeping along east of Biloxi with widening.
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Cody Goodman
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longhorn

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2017, 12:54:54 PM »

I do say that the portion from I-12 to I-65 could be widened to 6 lanes though (outside of the already 6 & 8 lane portion in the Gulfport-Biloxi region of course) but that's a lot easier said than done with the obvious environmental issues. I've never been to Florida as the closest I've came was Mobile so I can't speak on that.

There are a few high-rise bridges along I-10 in Mississippi which would make widening rather expensive, but MDOT is creeping along east of Biloxi with widening.

There is a lot of traffic on I-10 no matter what statics say. One can say the same about I-35, but thank goodness they expanded it to three lanes with a fourth lane built in for future use.

The I-10 bridge in Lake Charles is slated for replacement and you can guess it will be three lanes at least on each side.

I do not believe truck traffic is counted in population statics and that's what creates the stop and gos in the middle of nowhere Texas between two major metropolitan centers.
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codyg1985

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2017, 01:49:43 PM »

I do say that the portion from I-12 to I-65 could be widened to 6 lanes though (outside of the already 6 & 8 lane portion in the Gulfport-Biloxi region of course) but that's a lot easier said than done with the obvious environmental issues. I've never been to Florida as the closest I've came was Mobile so I can't speak on that.

There are a few high-rise bridges along I-10 in Mississippi which would make widening rather expensive, but MDOT is creeping along east of Biloxi with widening.

There is a lot of traffic on I-10 no matter what statics say. One can say the same about I-35, but thank goodness they expanded it to three lanes with a fourth lane built in for future use.

The I-10 bridge in Lake Charles is slated for replacement and you can guess it will be three lanes at least on each side.

I do not believe truck traffic is counted in population statics and that's what creates the stop and gos in the middle of nowhere Texas between two major metropolitan centers.

Typically trucks are counted and there is a factor included in the traffic count information which shows the percentage of trucks and heavy vehicles.
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Cody Goodman
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MaxConcrete

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2018, 08:44:44 PM »

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/08083201.htm

Bids were opened today on the next section to be widened to 3x3, 10.2 miles from the Brazos River to west of Sealy.

It's an expensive job with the low bid of $317.5 million, or $31 million/mile, and 4.8% above estimate.

Estimate   $303,003,725.27   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $317,508,658.52   +4.79%   WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 2   $318,849,499.48   +5.23%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.
Bidder 3   $326,380,527.70   +7.72%   FLUOR HEAVY CIVIL, LLC
Bidder 4   $340,535,018.06   +12.39%   PULICE CONSTRUCTION, INC.
Bidder 5   $346,686,800.41   +14.42%   BALFOUR BEATTY INFRASTRUCTURE, INC.


Observations
* This is a rare case when a bidder underbid Williams Brothers when WB is playing to win. WB already is working on the adjacent section to the east, so you would think the nearby presence would have lowered their cost
* The Brazos River bridge is included in this job and is shown as 4x4 in the plans. It is unclear if the existing bridge will be widened or replaced. The plans mention bridge demolition, so it is probably replacement.
* Looking at the plans, this entire section has near-continuous frontage roads (except for the Brazos bridge and BNSF RR) and it appears that all frontage roads will be rebuilt, and also widened in Sealy. So I'm thinking this is the main reason why the job is so expensive

Anthony_JK

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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2018, 11:25:46 AM »

In Louisiana, there's already a working project to widen I-10 to 3x3 from the I-49 interchange in Lafayette to the base of the Atchafalaya River Basin viaduct, along with completing the 3x3 widening from Cooley Bayou near Vinton to the Sabine River Bridge at the Texas state line (which is wide enough for 3x3 but currently striped for 2x2). I wouldn't be surprised if within 10-20 years all of I-10 was 3x3 all the way from TX to the Atchafalaya Basin and from BTR through NOLA (with even wider lengths through BTR and NOLA).

Widening the Basin segment would be a bear due to the existing bridges across the Atchafalaya River and Whiskey Bay Channel, and that rest area in the median at Butte la Rose. But, it would be a fine idea, since the only alternative would be to upgrade US 190 from the I-49 interchange at Opelousas to at least the LA 415 interchange near Lobdell/Port Allen to freeway standards....and I can't see Port Barre, Krotz Springs, or Livonia giving up that sweet speed trap funding.
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Re: I-10 expansion between San Antonio and Houston
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2018, 02:03:18 PM »

I don't see the Basin bridge being widened.

As for US 190, it could work as an alternate route if the TX 12 / LA 12 / US 190 corridor were expressway all the way from Vidor to Baton Rouge.
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