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Author Topic: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable  (Read 2996 times)

MikeTheActuary

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2017, 07:52:47 AM »

I never understood why DirecTV doesn't carry subchannels. Cable companies can do it with no problem, so I don't see why DirecTV can't.

There are only so many video streams that can be carried on a transponder, even with video compression.

There are only so many transponders on a satellite.

Cable companies, on the other hand, have the advantage of having terrestrial access to their distribution system, and in only needing to carry the local channels for the area (rather than ALL of them) through their systems.
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ftballfan

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2017, 10:31:42 PM »

Here's some partial cable lineups for several Michigan communities, mostly communities around my hometown, in 1980:
Beulah
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
5 - WPNE (PBS Green Bay) / WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WCML (PBS Alpena)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
13 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)

Big Rapids
2 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo)
4 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WJIM (CBS Lansing)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
10 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
12 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Cadillac
2 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)
3 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
4 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
8 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
10 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
11 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
12 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
13 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)

Ludington (Channel 3 was split four ways, with WKZO likely only being carried whenever they had an NFL game that wasn't on WBAY, WITI, or WWTV)
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo) / WVTV (IND Milwaukee) / WGN (IND Chicago) / WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WITI (CBS Milwaukee)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids) / WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
12 - WISN (ABC Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Manistee
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
8 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
12 - WVTV (IND Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Mount Pleasant
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo) / CBET (CBC Windsor)
4 - WEYI (CBS Saginaw)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WJIM (CBS Lansing)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
11 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
12 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Traverse City (fun fact: WPBN, WCML, WGTU, and WWTV are still on these cable channels to this day in Traverse City and area)
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
4 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WCML (PBS Alpena)
8 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
10 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Whitehall
2 - WVTV (IND Milwaukee) [WVTV remained on cable in Whitehall until 2006, when WWMT launched a CW subchannel; Grand Rapids, which was and is a top 40 market, never had its own WB affiliate]
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
6 - WITI (CBS Milwaukee)
7 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WUHQ (ABC Battle Creek)
12 - WISN (ABC Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)
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Sctvhound

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2017, 12:12:17 AM »

I'm not quite sure when this stopped but up until the late 2000s, if you lived in an area where DirecTV didn't carry your local stations, you got the NYC ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC affiliates. I probably know more about New York's local networks than I do my own.

Long story actually.  Predates DirecTV/DISH Network, back to the days of the "BUD" (Big Ugly Dish).

BUDs were a godsend for rural people, particularly in the mountains, who previously could not get TV at all, or were at the mercy of cable bandits who charged outrageous $$ for poor service.  At first, nothing was scrambled at all, including the "backhaul" from network HQ to the local stations.  Then enough people got in on it that it cut into profits and Congress acted and made them sell the broadcast networks to viewers in "rural areas".  There were several outfits that provided these, including the "Denver Five" which gave the MT Denver stations, and PT24, which had a random mix of stations that changed from time to time (I suppose the idea was that you could find something sort of local news among them, as one statiion was iin the south, one in the north, one in the midwest and so on). 

But all they did was read you this statement that said "I can't get TV OTA" and you said yes and you got it.  No actual test, you could live anywhere and get this.

By this time the BUDs were replaced by the new DBS (DirecTV/DISH) systems, and they just did the same thing.  Lots of people preferred to get the out of town stations for various reasons.

Eventually this reached a critical mass and the local stations sued and got an injunction against ANYBODY, including people who really needed the service, which sucked, and Congress acted again.  They made the dish providers start actually testing if you could get a signal so rural people could still get the networks.  And freed up a lot more bandwidth so the sat companies could start providing local stations.  This is when they changed from the random mix of stations to NY/LA.  They also "grandfathered" anybody who had the service at the time. 

The NY/LA stations are still on the systems and there are still grandfathered customers and people in the few markets they do not have locals in (and quite a few more customers that are missing one network or another in a place without all the networks).

A weird remnant of the PT24 package is that it is still on the BUD system for hotels and ex-pats in the Caribbean and Mexico, including WSEE in, of all places, Erie, PA.  If you stay at a hotel down there catering to tourists, you are likely to see that station, complete with local news of the goings on in Erie.  They do replace the local commercials, and replace the weather with (same weathermen) a Caribbean weather report.  The station even runs a website that is the main weather channel like deal for that region in English.

Dish Network had distant locals as well for a long period of time. They had something like 5 or 6 cities to choose from. One of the markets they used was Atlanta. They had ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox to choose from, none of the smaller networks. There was a Ruby Tuesday we frequented that couldn’t get cable, so they picked up the Atlanta locals. I remember watching Hurricane Ivan coverage on a couple of the stations there.

Dish Network, very soon after that, added locals in Charleston, as they went through the TV markets one by one and added them. DirecTV added them not long after that (beginning of 2005), and we ditched Comcast immediately for them.

There were a couple of times a few years back we had satellite issues with a local station and they opened up New York and LA stations for us. We got to see an additional Giants game because of that issue.
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bandit957

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2017, 08:34:35 PM »

In the mid-'90s, I saw a small article in the newspaper that said Ohio had just banned backyard satellite dishes. The cable TV industry had lobbied for this law.
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2017, 09:25:30 PM »

In the mid-'90s, I saw a small article in the newspaper that said Ohio had just banned backyard satellite dishes. The cable TV industry had lobbied for this law.

My dad used to have a name for a backyard satellite dish: The Montana state flower.

When I went to the Bahamas, I seem to recall the affiliates on the hotel TV system were WABC in New York, WRAL in Raleigh (when it was CBS), and WXIA in Atlanta.  It was 1993, so I don't remember FOX being available, as it was still a fledgling network and I visited just a few days after they announced they stole the NFC package from CBS. 
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hbelkins

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2017, 09:29:10 PM »

In the mid-'90s, I saw a small article in the newspaper that said Ohio had just banned backyard satellite dishes. The cable TV industry had lobbied for this law.

I can't imagine that even being legal. Even now, federal law requires that dishes have to be installed in apartment buildings or other rental properties if the tenant desires. The building owner can't prevent a dish from being installed.

The BUDs sprang up around here in lots of places that can't pick up OTR signals and there was no cable service. The old joke was that if the dish was pointed straight up at the sky, that's where the pr0n channels were located and the person at that home was viewing pr0n.

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bing101

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2017, 10:06:47 PM »

KSBW in Monterey but parts of Santa Clara County, CA got KSBW back in 2001 when I was there.
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Flint1979

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2018, 09:30:32 PM »

For Michigan I know Saginaw's on Charter is
4 WEYI - NBC 25
7 WNEM - CBS 5
8 WSMH - FOX 66
11 WJRT - ABC 12
17 WBSF - CW 46

The number to the left is the channel in Charter's lineup, the number on the right is the real channel number.
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Flint1979

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2018, 09:32:03 PM »

Here's some partial cable lineups for several Michigan communities, mostly communities around my hometown, in 1980:
Beulah
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
5 - WPNE (PBS Green Bay) / WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WCML (PBS Alpena)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
13 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)

Big Rapids
2 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo)
4 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WJIM (CBS Lansing)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
10 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
12 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Cadillac
2 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)
3 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
4 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
8 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
10 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
11 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
12 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
13 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)

Ludington (Channel 3 was split four ways, with WKZO likely only being carried whenever they had an NFL game that wasn't on WBAY, WITI, or WWTV)
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo) / WVTV (IND Milwaukee) / WGN (IND Chicago) / WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WITI (CBS Milwaukee)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids) / WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
12 - WISN (ABC Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Manistee
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
8 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
12 - WVTV (IND Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Mount Pleasant
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo) / CBET (CBC Windsor)
4 - WEYI (CBS Saginaw)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WJIM (CBS Lansing)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
11 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
12 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Traverse City (fun fact: WPBN, WCML, WGTU, and WWTV are still on these cable channels to this day in Traverse City and area)
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
4 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WCML (PBS Alpena)
8 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
10 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Whitehall
2 - WVTV (IND Milwaukee) [WVTV remained on cable in Whitehall until 2006, when WWMT launched a CW subchannel; Grand Rapids, which was and is a top 40 market, never had its own WB affiliate]
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
6 - WITI (CBS Milwaukee)
7 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WUHQ (ABC Battle Creek)
12 - WISN (ABC Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)
Just so ya know you have WEYI and WNEM backwards. WEYI is NBC and WNEM is CBS, they switched this around the same time Detroit switched their stations about 25 years ago.
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abefroman329

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2018, 02:07:14 PM »

In the mid-'90s, I saw a small article in the newspaper that said Ohio had just banned backyard satellite dishes. The cable TV industry had lobbied for this law.

My dad used to have a name for a backyard satellite dish: The Montana state flower.

When I went to the Bahamas, I seem to recall the affiliates on the hotel TV system were WABC in New York, WRAL in Raleigh (when it was CBS), and WXIA in Atlanta.  It was 1993, so I don't remember FOX being available, as it was still a fledgling network and I visited just a few days after they announced they stole the NFC package from CBS.

When I went to the USVI in 2008, they were getting broadcasting from network affiliates in Puerto Rico.  It was right before the election, and I thought was funny that all of the programming was in English, but all of the campaign ads were in Spanish.
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ftballfan

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2018, 08:59:45 AM »

Here's some partial cable lineups for several Michigan communities, mostly communities around my hometown, in 1980:
Beulah
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
5 - WPNE (PBS Green Bay) / WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WCML (PBS Alpena)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
13 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)

Big Rapids
2 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo)
4 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WJIM (CBS Lansing)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
10 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
12 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Cadillac
2 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)
3 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
4 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
8 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
10 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
11 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
12 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
13 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)

Ludington (Channel 3 was split four ways, with WKZO likely only being carried whenever they had an NFL game that wasn't on WBAY, WITI, or WWTV)
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo) / WVTV (IND Milwaukee) / WGN (IND Chicago) / WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WITI (CBS Milwaukee)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids) / WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
12 - WISN (ABC Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Manistee
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
8 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
12 - WVTV (IND Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Mount Pleasant
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo) / CBET (CBC Windsor)
4 - WEYI (CBS Saginaw)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WJIM (CBS Lansing)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
11 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
12 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Traverse City (fun fact: WPBN, WCML, WGTU, and WWTV are still on these cable channels to this day in Traverse City and area)
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
4 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WCML (PBS Alpena)
8 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
10 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Whitehall
2 - WVTV (IND Milwaukee) [WVTV remained on cable in Whitehall until 2006, when WWMT launched a CW subchannel; Grand Rapids, which was and is a top 40 market, never had its own WB affiliate]
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
6 - WITI (CBS Milwaukee)
7 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WUHQ (ABC Battle Creek)
12 - WISN (ABC Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)
Just so ya know you have WEYI and WNEM backwards. WEYI is NBC and WNEM is CBS, they switched this around the same time Detroit switched their stations about 25 years ago.
At the time these lineups were taken from (1980), WNEM was NBC and WEYI was CBS. They swapped in 1995
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Flint1979

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2018, 01:27:11 PM »

Here's some partial cable lineups for several Michigan communities, mostly communities around my hometown, in 1980:
Beulah
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
5 - WPNE (PBS Green Bay) / WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WCML (PBS Alpena)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
13 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)

Big Rapids
2 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo)
4 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WJIM (CBS Lansing)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
10 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
12 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Cadillac
2 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)
3 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
4 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
8 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
10 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
11 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
12 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
13 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)

Ludington (Channel 3 was split four ways, with WKZO likely only being carried whenever they had an NFL game that wasn't on WBAY, WITI, or WWTV)
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo) / WVTV (IND Milwaukee) / WGN (IND Chicago) / WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WITI (CBS Milwaukee)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids) / WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
12 - WISN (ABC Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Manistee
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
8 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
12 - WVTV (IND Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Mount Pleasant
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo) / CBET (CBC Windsor)
4 - WEYI (CBS Saginaw)
5 - WNEM (NBC Bay City)
6 - WJIM (CBS Lansing)
7 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
11 - WCMU (PBS Mount Pleasant)
12 - WJRT (ABC Flint)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Traverse City (fun fact: WPBN, WCML, WGTU, and WWTV are still on these cable channels to this day in Traverse City and area)
2 - WBAY (CBS Green Bay)
3 - WKBD (IND Detroit)
4 - WPBN (NBC Traverse City)
5 - WFRV (NBC Green Bay)
6 - WCML (PBS Alpena)
8 - WGTU (ABC Traverse City)
10 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
11 - WLUK (ABC Green Bay)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)

Whitehall
2 - WVTV (IND Milwaukee) [WVTV remained on cable in Whitehall until 2006, when WWMT launched a CW subchannel; Grand Rapids, which was and is a top 40 market, never had its own WB affiliate]
3 - WKZO (CBS Kalamazoo)
4 - WTMJ (NBC Milwaukee)
6 - WITI (CBS Milwaukee)
7 - WGVC (PBS Grand Rapids)
8 - WOTV (NBC Grand Rapids)
9 - WWTV (CBS Cadillac)
10 - WMVS (PBS Milwaukee)
11 - WUHQ (ABC Battle Creek)
12 - WISN (ABC Milwaukee)
13 - WZZM (ABC Grand Rapids)
Just so ya know you have WEYI and WNEM backwards. WEYI is NBC and WNEM is CBS, they switched this around the same time Detroit switched their stations about 25 years ago.
At the time these lineups were taken from (1980), WNEM was NBC and WEYI was CBS. They swapped in 1995
Yep. I remember when they switched.
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KEVIN_224

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2018, 07:43:09 PM »

Some cable systems have now changed their stations to align with the channel number, especially Comcast, who has even aligned them even with traditional UHF channel numbers.  My cable system used to be really bad for channel number alignments, but has improved.  WFSB, Channel 3 used to be cable channel 7, but now is in the correct location.  WTNH Channel 8 was cable channel 10, but has since been aligned.  WVIT Channel 30 has always been cable channel 4, probably to mimic fellow NBC affiliate WNBC in NYC.  WTIC FOX 61 has always been cable channel 6, just dropping the 1.  PBS Channel 24 remains in position 5.  WCCT Channel 20 was cable channel 9, but is now 11, perhaps to mimic sister CW station WPIX in NY.  WCTX did the modern thing; although it is Channel 59, it bills itself as MYTv 9 (the “TV” piece has to be there to differentiate it from WWOR My9 In NYC), and cable systems put it in that position.  The only constant is that our Univision affiliate Channel 18 has always been cable channel 18.

In New Britain with systems prior to Comcast, channel 3 was on cable channel 2. This was due to something called ingress. Signal leakage from channel 3 was even more prevalent on cable channel 3 if you had poor quality connections. Channel 30 was on 4. Channel 61 was on 6. Channel 24 was on 7. Channel 8 of New Haven was always on channel 8, since New Britain was far enough away from Hamden (site of channel 8's transmitter). Moving on, channel 59 was on 9, channel 26 New London was on 10. Channel 20 was on 11. Channel 57 (PBS) of Springfield, MA was on 12. Channel 13 was for the low-power Telemundo station channel 13 of Hartford (I think it was last on channel 50). Channel 18 was on 18, but was added after they came back on as a Univision affiliate.

We used to get channel 9 of Secaucus/New York City, channel 11 of NYC and channel 38 of Boston. SYNDEX more or less forced channel 11 off our lineup on July 1, 1990. It was replaced that morning by in-market channel 26 of New London (IND then, ION now). Channel 9 more or less became their EMI-Eastern Microwave station. Channel 38 Boston was dropped last, likely at the end of the 1990s.
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ftballfan

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2018, 10:39:15 PM »

Some cable systems have now changed their stations to align with the channel number, especially Comcast, who has even aligned them even with traditional UHF channel numbers.  My cable system used to be really bad for channel number alignments, but has improved.  WFSB, Channel 3 used to be cable channel 7, but now is in the correct location.  WTNH Channel 8 was cable channel 10, but has since been aligned.  WVIT Channel 30 has always been cable channel 4, probably to mimic fellow NBC affiliate WNBC in NYC.  WTIC FOX 61 has always been cable channel 6, just dropping the 1.  PBS Channel 24 remains in position 5.  WCCT Channel 20 was cable channel 9, but is now 11, perhaps to mimic sister CW station WPIX in NY.  WCTX did the modern thing; although it is Channel 59, it bills itself as MYTv 9 (the “TV” piece has to be there to differentiate it from WWOR My9 In NYC), and cable systems put it in that position.  The only constant is that our Univision affiliate Channel 18 has always been cable channel 18.

In New Britain with systems prior to Comcast, channel 3 was on cable channel 2. This was due to something called ingress. Signal leakage from channel 3 was even more prevalent on cable channel 3 if you had poor quality connections. Channel 30 was on 4. Channel 61 was on 6. Channel 24 was on 7. Channel 8 of New Haven was always on channel 8, since New Britain was far enough away from Hamden (site of channel 8's transmitter). Moving on, channel 59 was on 9, channel 26 New London was on 10. Channel 20 was on 11. Channel 57 (PBS) of Springfield, MA was on 12. Channel 13 was for the low-power Telemundo station channel 13 of Hartford (I think it was last on channel 50). Channel 18 was on 18, but was added after they came back on as a Univision affiliate.

We used to get channel 9 of Secaucus/New York City, channel 11 of NYC and channel 38 of Boston. SYNDEX more or less forced channel 11 off our lineup on July 1, 1990. It was replaced that morning by in-market channel 26 of New London (IND then, ION now). Channel 9 more or less became their EMI-Eastern Microwave station. Channel 38 Boston was dropped last, likely at the end of the 1990s.
I'm guessing 38 hung on as long as it did for one reason only: Red Sox baseball. Did a station in Hartford pick up the Yankees since they were on 11 in NYC?
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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2018, 12:07:55 AM »

Some cable systems have now changed their stations to align with the channel number, especially Comcast, who has even aligned them even with traditional UHF channel numbers.  My cable system used to be really bad for channel number alignments, but has improved.  WFSB, Channel 3 used to be cable channel 7, but now is in the correct location.  WTNH Channel 8 was cable channel 10, but has since been aligned.  WVIT Channel 30 has always been cable channel 4, probably to mimic fellow NBC affiliate WNBC in NYC.  WTIC FOX 61 has always been cable channel 6, just dropping the 1.  PBS Channel 24 remains in position 5.  WCCT Channel 20 was cable channel 9, but is now 11, perhaps to mimic sister CW station WPIX in NY.  WCTX did the modern thing; although it is Channel 59, it bills itself as MYTv 9 (the “TV” piece has to be there to differentiate it from WWOR My9 In NYC), and cable systems put it in that position.  The only constant is that our Univision affiliate Channel 18 has always been cable channel 18.

In New Britain with systems prior to Comcast, channel 3 was on cable channel 2. This was due to something called ingress. Signal leakage from channel 3 was even more prevalent on cable channel 3 if you had poor quality connections. Channel 30 was on 4. Channel 61 was on 6. Channel 24 was on 7. Channel 8 of New Haven was always on channel 8, since New Britain was far enough away from Hamden (site of channel 8's transmitter). Moving on, channel 59 was on 9, channel 26 New London was on 10. Channel 20 was on 11. Channel 57 (PBS) of Springfield, MA was on 12. Channel 13 was for the low-power Telemundo station channel 13 of Hartford (I think it was last on channel 50). Channel 18 was on 18, but was added after they came back on as a Univision affiliate.

We used to get channel 9 of Secaucus/New York City, channel 11 of NYC and channel 38 of Boston. SYNDEX more or less forced channel 11 off our lineup on July 1, 1990. It was replaced that morning by in-market channel 26 of New London (IND then, ION now). Channel 9 more or less became their EMI-Eastern Microwave station. Channel 38 Boston was dropped last, likely at the end of the 1990s.
I'm guessing 38 hung on as long as it did for one reason only: Red Sox baseball. Did a station in Hartford pick up the Yankees since they were on 11 in NYC?

WCTX carries the OTA Yankees games, while WCCT carries OTA Mets games.  WSBK was dropped by all cable systems when they lost the Red Sox contract, much as most cable systems north of New Haven dropped MSG for YES upon the Yankees creating their own network.  The only NY teams that garner significant interest in the 50/50 Boston/New York Greater Hartford area are the Yankees and Giants, who are on equal footing with the Red Sox and Pats.   The Celtics get more interest than the Knicks and Nets, and the Bruins get a little more interest than the Rangers and a lot more interest than the Islanders and Devils.  The Mets are a distant third in baseball, and the Jets fan base in the area is about equal to those of the Cowboys, Steelers, and Packers (I know more Steelers fans than Jets fans).

The funny thing is that when WWOR went to Eastern Microwave, Dimension (now Cox) kept the local WWOR feed while TCI (now Comcast/XFinity) went with EM.  I'm surprised that WGBY out of Springfield is so widely available in CT nearly 25-30 years after all cable systems dropped WWLP and WGGB (the latter is only available in the Enfield area), plus we already have CPTV.  Amazingly, WCBS, WNBC, and WABC are still available as far north as Wallingford, while Waterbury has WNBC, WABC, WWOR, and WPIX. 
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ftballfan

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2018, 01:12:25 PM »

The funny thing is that when WWOR went to Eastern Microwave, Dimension (now Cox) kept the local WWOR feed while TCI (now Comcast/XFinity) went with EM.  I'm surprised that WGBY out of Springfield is so widely available in CT nearly 25-30 years after all cable systems dropped WWLP and WGGB (the latter is only available in the Enfield area), plus we already have CPTV.  Amazingly, WCBS, WNBC, and WABC are still available as far north as Wallingford, while Waterbury has WNBC, WABC, WWOR, and WPIX. 

Two reasons why WGBY is still seen in CT:
1. Syndex doesn't apply to PBS members
2. PBS members can and do have varied programming, especially during prime time.

Also, WNET is carried in Wallingford. I think the New Haven area does have a sizable portion of NYC commuters, hence the availability of NYC stations there.

Speaking of Enfield, they have WGBH from Boston (!) but no WWLP which is based right across the state line. It seems like most if not all cable companies in CT carry at least one of WGBH, WGBY, WNET, or WSBE in addition to WEDH.
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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2018, 02:03:09 PM »

I would have enjoyed getting WKBD-50 out of Detroit when it was an independent station to see the Tigers/Wings and CBET-9, Windsor, to see HNIC down here in Indiana.   Both of these were staples throughout the State of Michigan for a long time.
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KEVIN_224

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2018, 10:46:45 PM »

@ FTBALLFAN: No channel 22 carried in Enfield, CT? Strange! When I stayed a night once in Springfield, the cable carried channel 20 and 30 from Hartford/New Haven. I think the Sheraton was using Comcast. Not 100% sure.
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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2018, 11:17:18 PM »

In my childhood, we're talking 1998 onward, we had TBS and WGN. I believe early on they were still true superstations just simulcasting their main programming feed on a satellite uplink.  Never had any NYC stations except for when Yankees and Mets games are locally broadcast in NYC and picked up on WCTX and WCCT via local marketing agreements.

The New Haven/Hartford market used to include Springfield until 1997 or so, with an overlapping market existing for the Pioneer Valley which still exists to this day.  I've never had a cable provider give us any out of market stations except WGBY and WNET.  New England has some weird market overlaps.  In southern Vermont cable systems will provide stations from Boston, Springfield and Albany. Cape Cod and the Islands gets Boston and Providence stations.  Thus you end up with two or three affiliates for the same network, each with different syndication schedules and all showing identical network programming.  It's a mess.
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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2018, 08:43:22 AM »

In the mid-'90s, I saw a small article in the newspaper that said Ohio had just banned backyard satellite dishes. The cable TV industry had lobbied for this law.

I can't imagine that even being legal. Even now, federal law requires that dishes have to be installed in apartment buildings or other rental properties if the tenant desires. The building owner can't prevent a dish from being installed.

....

It's not quite that simple. I looked into this issue some years back before my wife and I got married because she lived in a rented 18th-floor condo. As a general matter you're correct that the state can't simply "ban" satellite dishes altogether. There's a federal regulation that protects the homeowner's ("owner" being important) right to use a satellite dish of up to one meter in diameter, and/or an outdoor antenna, and the federal regulation preempts state or local law and HOA regulations. (The diameter provision means they can regulate Big Ugly Dishes much more strictly than DBS-type dishes.) The state or local government and HOA can designate preferred locations for the dish (such as around the back where you can't see it from the street), but if the homeowner can't get adequate reception with it there, he's entitled to move the dish elsewhere after giving notice and conferring with them on a new location. (The intent there is to protect the homeowner's TV reception while also protecting denser urban and suburban communities from ugly things like people sticking satellite dishes on poles in the front yard.)

The "owner" part is important. If you rent your house to someone, you can specify "no satellite dish" in the lease and the tenant is stuck with it, this because it is the owner's prerogative, not the tenant's, to determine what sort of things may be done with or on the property. More relevant to most people is that someone living in a building like an apartment building or condo is only entitled to mount a dish in places fully under his control, and the building management is allowed to prohibit things like drilling through the wall to run a wire. So, for example, my wife could not have had a dish hanging from her balcony, nor could she have had a dish mounted to an exterior building wall, because her complex prohibited objects protruding beyond the balcony railing and prohibited drilling through walls. The building also need not allow you access to the roof to stick a dish up there (practical reasons why places don't allow that are kind of obvious). What you could do, if your unit faced the correct direction, would be to put a dish in some kind of heavy planter, make sure no part protrudes beyond the balcony or patio railing, and then run the wire through an open door or window or perhaps through a hole in a screen.
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KEVIN_224

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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2018, 09:20:34 AM »

The Hartford/New Haven market used to include Springfield until 1997 or so, with an overlapping market existing for the Pioneer Valley which still exists to this day.  I've never had a cable provider give us any out of market stations except WGBY and WNET.  New England has some weird market overlaps.  In southern Vermont cable systems will provide stations from Boston, Springfield and Albany. Cape Cod and the Islands gets Boston and Providence stations.  Thus you end up with two or three affiliates for the same network, each with different syndication schedules and all showing identical network programming.  It's a mess.

Brattleboro, VT is in Windham County. It's the northwest fringe of the Boston/Worcester DMA, likely due to viewership patterns. I personally think they should be part of the Burlington/Plattsburgh (NY) DMA, since Montpelier is the capitol there, not Boston. Brattleboro is usually paired with Keene, Cheshire County, NH (about 15 miles to the east) for radio purposes. Cheshire County, NH is also in the Boston/Worcester DMA and is home to WEKW-TV (PBS) channel 52. Go one county west and you have Bennington County, VT. That's in the Albany/Schenectady, NY DMA. Last I checked, Comcast (formerly Adelphia) in Brattleboro carried WCAX-TV channel 3 (CBS) from Burlington. I think they also carried WCDC-TV (ABC) channel 19 from Adams, Berkshire County, MA.

As for the Springfield/Holyoke, MA DMA, it's always been Hampden, Hampshire and Franklin Counties, MA (i.e. Springfield/Holyoke, Northampton and Greenfield, respectively). They imported CBS and FOX from Hartford for years until "CBS 3" and "FOX 6" came along. "CBS 3" is a low-power digital station while "FOX 6" is actually WGGB-TV channel 40-2 of Springfield.

As far as I know, WNET-TV was never carried in New Britain. Channel 5 may been carried years ago in their days as independent WNEW-TV. Channel 9 and 11 were definitely carried here. So was channel 38 from Boston. WGBY-TV (PBS) channel 57 was the only Springfield/Holyoke market station I ever saw here.
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Re: Out of town stations that you used to see on cable
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2018, 01:54:16 AM »

Emporia, VA, at least 5 years ago, got all the major Richmond and Hampton Roads TV stations on their cable. Back in the old days before the internet, I’m sure there were some TV executives who traveled to towns that had cable systems with two or more sets of network affiliates to recruit for talent.
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