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Which eastern terminus of I-70 looks the best

Current (I-695 in Woodlawn)
- 18 (28.6%)
Former (Park and Ride near Baltimore)
- 5 (7.9%)
Planned (I-95 in Baltimore)
- 40 (63.5%)

Total Members Voted: 63


Author Topic: East End of I-70  (Read 6741 times)

theroadwayone

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East End of I-70
« on: January 14, 2018, 02:12:24 AM »

(Disclaimer: If this needs to be moved elsewhere, let me know.)

I know this sounds like a post I wrote elsewhere, but I thought I'd give this a go.

Which eastern terminus of America's fifth-longest interstate highway looks better?

The current one (I-695 in Woodlawn.)

The former one (a park and ride lot near Baltimore.)

The one that was planned originally (I-95 in Baltimore.)

With that said, in 2014 the route was shortened only to the Beltway; if that's so, why hasn't MapQuest, Rand McNally, or Google (or any other atlas that I'm aware of) changed to reflect that? Please leave your ideas in the comments. Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 02:15:28 AM by theroadwayone »
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Alps

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 02:36:57 AM »

I don't know what you mean by "looks the best", but in terms of pure aesthetics I'll take the flying stubs at I-95 over the ground-level park and ride. In terms of having a complete route, the same for obvious reasons.

sparker

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2018, 02:55:44 AM »

The only freeway "teardowns" that I can generally countenance are the removal of freeway connector stubs that will never be used; the I-70 stubs at I-95 are a prime example of such.  I'd cast my vote for the I-695 interchange as the best of this particular "bad lot" (a quick trip to Fictional will indicate what I would consider a better I-70 "fate" -- a repurposing/west extension of the MD 32 corridor, with I-70 crossing/interchanging with I-95 and terminating at I-97; present route then I-170).
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oscar

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2018, 09:14:58 AM »

With that said, in 2014 the route was shortened only to the Beltway; if that's so, why hasn't MapQuest, Rand McNally, or Google (or any other atlas that I'm aware of) changed to reflect that?

Maryland's DOT got AASHTO approval in 2014 to truncate I-70 to I-695. But, as has been noted in other threads (including one similar to this one, which I can't find at the moment), there is some unclarity about whether the DOT has (yet) carried out the truncation.
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TheOneKEA

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2018, 09:18:56 AM »

With that said, in 2014 the route was shortened only to the Beltway; if that's so, why hasn't MapQuest, Rand McNally, or Google (or any other atlas that I'm aware of) changed to reflect that?

Maryland's DOT got AASHTO approval in 2014 to truncate I-70 to I-695. But, as has been noted in other threads (including one similar to this one, which I can't find at the moment), there is some unclarity about whether the DOT has (yet) carried out the truncation.

According to the 2017 HLR for Baltimore County [1], I-70 has not been truncated by MDOT SHA.

[1] - http://www.roads.maryland.gov/OPPEN/2016%20Baltimore_HLR_web.pdf
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froggie

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2018, 11:55:43 AM »

They haven't.  In no small part because part of the reason for the truncation was to use some of the ROW for the then-planned Red Line, which Governor Hogan subsequently cancelled when he came into office.
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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 07:55:36 PM »

I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?
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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 08:02:54 PM »

I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di. See the north end of I-79, both ends of I-97, the west end of I-10, the west end of I-26, the west end of I-96, the west end of I-72, the east end of I-78, and others.
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theroadwayone

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 08:21:32 PM »

I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di. See the north end of I-79, both ends of I-97, the west end of I-10, the west end of I-26, the west end of I-96, the west end of I-72, the east end of I-78, and others.
Just saying, they could have routed it along the beltway, one way or another. I mean, could they have done anything differently in regards to planning, construction, etc?
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dvferyance

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 09:34:50 PM »

I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.
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abc2VE

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 09:45:34 PM »

I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

You're referring to this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3069827,-76.7808683,3a,18.3y,119.51h,91.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUMOX5enikJT9jUrGwSCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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dvferyance

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2018, 09:46:41 PM »

I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

You're referring to this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3069827,-76.7808683,3a,18.3y,119.51h,91.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUMOX5enikJT9jUrGwSCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Yep I know that sign has been there for at least 15 years.
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theroadwayone

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 11:20:21 PM »

I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

You're referring to this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3069827,-76.7808683,3a,18.3y,119.51h,91.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUMOX5enikJT9jUrGwSCaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Yep I know that sign has been there for at least 15 years.
And like only three years ago were the authorities there planning to make it official...
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cpzilliacus

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 11:22:54 PM »

I thought I-70 always ended at I-695. Eric Stuve had pictures from his roadtrip around 2002 or 2003 showing signage that confirmed that. As far as a know the little stub to the park and ride was never signed I-70 east from I-695 it's just it was planned to be part of I-70 before the section to I-95 was cancelled.

The Maryland Department of Transportation/State Highway Administration's Highway Location Reference, not signs on the highways, is canon on such things.
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froggie

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2018, 06:20:36 AM »

Looks pretty well signed to me...

Regarding the sign Dave posted, I am of the viewpoint that SHA posted that to guide through/non-local traffic to the Baltimore Beltway so as to avoid their getting confused when they reached Cooks Ln and the park-and-ride at the end of 70.

Of course, had Governor Hogan not cancelled the Red Line, it would be a moot point because 70 was to be de-designated inside 695 and rebuilt to accommodate the rail line.
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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2018, 09:17:59 AM »

I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di. See the north end of I-79, both ends of I-97, the west end of I-10, the west end of I-26, the west end of I-96, the west end of I-72, the east end of I-78, and others.

Such as the east end of I-55, the east end of I-66...
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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2018, 09:44:18 AM »

Current

It just seems obvious, without building it to I-95. The remainder to the park and ride is moved just to the east of the interchange, and has a roundabout style to it.
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theroadwayone

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2018, 06:44:32 PM »

Found this discussion about I-70 in Baltimore. Thought it's worth a look.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/baltimore/2389720-should-i-70-extended-into-baltimore.html
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TheOneKEA

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2018, 09:48:48 PM »

Found this discussion about I-70 in Baltimore. Thought it's worth a look.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/baltimore/2389720-should-i-70-extended-into-baltimore.html

This thread sums up many of my thoughts on the incompletion of I-70. As Scott Kozel once stated on MTR, I have very mixed feelings about the cancellation of I-70 inside the city line. I really do wonder if Scott’s musings about the resurgence of industrial and commercial business in West Baltimore that a link to I-70 would in fact come true if that link existed.

I also find the perspective written by Earl Swift in “The Big Roads” to be pertinent to this discussion.
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theroadwayone

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2018, 03:00:34 PM »

Found this discussion about I-70 in Baltimore. Thought it's worth a look.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/baltimore/2389720-should-i-70-extended-into-baltimore.html

This thread sums up many of my thoughts on the incompletion of I-70. As Scott Kozel once stated on MTR, I have very mixed feelings about the cancellation of I-70 inside the city line. I really do wonder if Scott’s musings about the resurgence of industrial and commercial business in West Baltimore that a link to I-70 would in fact come true if that link existed.

I also find the perspective written by Earl Swift in “The Big Roads” to be pertinent to this discussion.

Same here. If there's one thing to be learned from this, it's that no freeway, regardless of designation, deserves to end in a parking lot (except for anything thought up by FritzOwl.) Donate to Stop Freeway Termini in Parking Lots today.
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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2019, 01:21:58 PM »

Found this discussion about I-70 in Baltimore. Thought it's worth a look.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/baltimore/2389720-should-i-70-extended-into-baltimore.html

This thread sums up many of my thoughts on the incompletion of I-70. As Scott Kozel once stated on MTR, I have very mixed feelings about the cancellation of I-70 inside the city line. I really do wonder if Scott’s musings about the resurgence of industrial and commercial business in West Baltimore that a link to I-70 would in fact come true if that link existed.

I also find the perspective written by Earl Swift in “The Big Roads” to be pertinent to this discussion.

Found that - Big Roads by Earl Swift in a local used bookstore.  A fairly in depth sub-plot about the difficulties in getting Baltimore's expressways finished.   Frank Turner was quite in-stringent about routing I-70 through Rosemont, instead of looking at alternatives.    Rosemont was at the time - fifties/sixties, a well established Black community in West Baltimore.  Options existed to go around it, or skirt it to the south.  If one of those options had been pursued - I-70 would likely have gone all the way in to I-95 in the southern industrial area.   The delays enabled the opposition to gel and prevent a good part of the road to not be built - aside from the I-170 trench.  In hindsight - the area and neighborhoods decayed anyway, without much of the freeway.   
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LM117

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2019, 10:28:20 AM »

I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di.

Please tell that to NCDOT (see useless I-87/I-440 overlap).
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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2019, 10:56:12 AM »

While I would've loved to see I-70 completed to I-95 as planned, in reality there's just no good path that can be taken without ruining the park first (or the neighborhoods immediately bordering it). As it is, the planners should've made more modifications to the route so that it would take out less parkland but leave the neighborhoods intact, which was damn near impossible even back then. However, I think it was a good call building I-170 below grade, because a viaduct would be even more damaging to the surrounding areas that were declining anyway.

Then again, I-95 was supposed to have gone completely through DC at one point, and look how that turned out. Exact same situation as I-70, but through far more built-up areas.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2019, 03:46:53 PM »

Personally, I'd like to see Interstate 70 be connected with the US 40 freeway via a tunnel (with a tunnel spur to Interstate 95, although I don't know how much of the park, and/or homes and businesses would have to be destroyed to make that a reality.
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Re: East End of I-70
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2019, 06:46:38 PM »

I would route I-70 sound along I-695 and have it end at I-95. It would give I-70 a proper ending at 2di, but don't a 2di have to end at another 2di, does it?

Not every 2di has to end at another 2di.

Please tell that to NCDOT (see useless I-87/I-440 overlap).
Mississippi decided to end I-22 at I-269, while North Carolina decided to extend I-87 along I-440 to meet I-40. Both decisions got their shares of cheers and boos on the Forum. Ultimately these decisions should turn on what's most helpful for motorists. In the Baltimore case, I'm not sure it would be helpful to extend I-70 in either direction along I-695.
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