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Author Topic: Norway: Rogfast - 16.5 mile undersea tunnel  (Read 1987 times)

seicer

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Re: Norway: Rogfast - 16.5 mile undersea tunnel
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 07:42:42 PM »

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Beltway

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Re: Norway: Rogfast - 16.5 mile undersea tunnel
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 09:19:40 PM »

Some explanations as to why it's so expensive to build tunnels (and really big infrastructure projects) in the United States:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/why-its-so-expensive-to-build-urban-rail-in-the-us/551408/

Rail transit subways are a very different animal and are far more complex than building a tunnel across open waters, IMHO. 

Very urbanized area, massive utility relocations, massive cut-and-cover tunneling in urban areas, or bored tunneling in urban areas, constructing stations which are much larger than the line tunnel and with all their appurtenances, underpinning of large nearby buildings, and connections to existing subway lines.
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Scott M. Savage
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seicer

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Re: Norway: Rogfast - 16.5 mile undersea tunnel
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2018, 10:11:01 PM »

Some of the reasons that greatly inflate costs of tunnels also greatly inflate costs of practically any mega project in the states. I would think that many of its rationales given could apply to the Long Island crossing, which is -far- more expensive per mile than the Norway project. I would also think that the greatly exaggerated costs in the states is why we don't see more tunnels over here. It's interesting to drive on many of the routes in Europe and in Asia, where tunnels are very common - and find out that they were built for a nominal cost (compared to a comparable project here).
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Beltway

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Re: Norway: Rogfast - 16.5 mile undersea tunnel
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2018, 10:16:36 PM »

Some of the reasons that greatly inflate costs of tunnels also greatly inflate costs of practically any mega project in the states. I would think that many of its rationales given could apply to the Long Island crossing, which is -far- more expensive per mile than the Norway project. I would also think that the greatly exaggerated costs in the states is why we don't see more tunnels over here. It's interesting to drive on many of the routes in Europe and in Asia, where tunnels are very common - and find out that they were built for a nominal cost (compared to a comparable project here).

As I have said in other threads I think that the $55 billion figure is bogus, something that was cooked up by opponents of the project.  The world's most expensive long crossing over open waters still hasn't reached $9 billion USD.
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Scott M. Savage
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Chris

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Re: Norway: Rogfast - 16.5 mile undersea tunnel
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2018, 08:56:53 AM »

Norway has approximately 1,100 tunnels.

They are also currently constructing the Stockholm Bypass in Sweden. It is a 21 kilometer six-lane freeway with 18 of those kilometers being underground, and the longest single tunnel being 16.5 kilometers (10 miles) long. The price tag is 28 billion SEK = $ 2.76 billion.

For those who speaks Swedish (CPZ?) or use Google Translate, the Swedish Transport Administration released a list of recently completed complex projects. They are often right on budget or even below. For example the Norra Länken (northern link) in Stockholm was completed 21% under budget. This is an underground freeway with underground interchanges.

https://www.trafikverket.se/nara-dig/Vastra-gotaland/projekt-i-vastra-gotalands-lan/Vastlanken---smidigare-pendling-och-effektivare-trafik/Nyheter/2018/2018-03/sa-arbetar-trafikverket-med-klimatkalkyler2/
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 10:54:07 AM by Chris »
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Beltway

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Re: Norway: Rogfast - 16.5 mile undersea tunnel
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »

The U.S. has gotten much better at completing megaprojects on schedule and on budget.  Project management techniques can and have been developed to accomplish this.
 
As recently as about 15 years ago it was a standing joke at how many such projects blew out on both metrics many times.

Just in Virginia and Maryland, megaprojects that were completed on schedule and on budget, or nearly so, using construction contracting period and costs --

Woodrow Wilson Bridge Project, I-95/I-495 -- $2.4 billion, 2000-2013
I-495 HOT Lanes Project -- $1.9 billion, 2008-2012
I-95 HOT Lanes Project -- $0.9 billion, 2010-2014
MD-200 Intercounty Connector -- $2.3 billion, 2007-2011
Metrorail Silver Line Phase I -- $2.7 billion, 2010-2014
Elizabeth River Tunnels -- $1.4 billion, 2012-2017

This is from close to where I live.  I have heard many similar reports around the country.
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Scott M. Savage
-- Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
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http://www.roadstothefuture.com
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