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Author Topic: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY  (Read 2719 times)

ilpt4u

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New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« on: May 07, 2018, 11:38:09 PM »

IDOT’s future project spending for the next few years has been posted, and there is funding there for a new bridge over the Ohio from Cairo to KY

According to the IDOT Report, KY (KTC?) is to be the Lead Agency on the project

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7646.975
http://www.idot.illinois.gov/transportation-system/transportation-management/transportation-improvement-programs-/multi-modal-transportation-improvement-program/index

Seems like the Ohio is getting just a few new crossings into KY, over the last few years and into the next few years
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seicer

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 08:25:21 PM by seicer »
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hbelkins

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 03:22:18 PM »

I still think the best option would be a bridge directly into Missouri from Kentucky.
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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 03:36:31 PM »

I still think the best option would be a bridge directly into Missouri from Kentucky.

I agree. Cairo is a shithole, why give the Missouri-Kentucky traffic the displeasure of passing through Cairo?
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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 03:49:45 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
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rte66man

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 04:25:27 PM »

I still think the best option would be a bridge directly into Missouri from Kentucky.

I agree. Cairo is a shithole, why give the Missouri-Kentucky traffic the displeasure of passing through Cairo?

Thankfully you don't have to pass through Cairo going to/from Missouri and Kentucky
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Brooks

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2018, 06:28:54 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.
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seicer

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2018, 06:52:34 PM »

With that silly argument, you might as well avoid pretty much any bridge over the Mississippi and Ohio rivers within a 300 mile radius from New Madrid, Missouri. And stay away from any buildings.
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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2018, 07:11:08 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
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Brooks

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2018, 07:21:19 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they’ve long since ruled out a retrofit.
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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2018, 07:33:35 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they’ve long since ruled out a retrofit.


I never did say it definitely was, it was more of a quick judgement based on memory. I had thought the I-55 bridge was more similar to the Caruthersville Bridge and that the De Soto bridge was older.
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Brooks

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2018, 07:49:12 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they’ve long since ruled out a retrofit.


I never did say it definitely was, it was more of a quick judgement based on memory. I had thought the I-55 bridge was more similar to the Caruthersville Bridge and that the De Soto bridge was older.
That’s fair. Neither of them look very new (by my standards, anyways). The Memphis-Arkansas (I-55) bridge was probably ahead of its time when it opened. It just doesn’t hold up to standards now.
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ilpt4u

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2020, 03:00:14 PM »

Bringing back an old thread...The Southern Illinoisan is reporting that Public “feedback” (in lieu of the typical meetings) for the Replacement Ohio River Bridge is being sought

us51bridge.com is the project website

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/public-input-sought-for-new-u-s-51-ohio-river-cairo-bridge/article_29df6f88-967a-5897-86cc-79599febd6e3.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest
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rte66man

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2020, 05:48:27 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they’ve long since ruled out a retrofit.


I never did say it definitely was, it was more of a quick judgement based on memory. I had thought the I-55 bridge was more similar to the Caruthersville Bridge and that the De Soto bridge was older.
That’s fair. Neither of them look very new (by my standards, anyways). The Memphis-Arkansas (I-55) bridge was probably ahead of its time when it opened. It just doesn’t hold up to standards now.

The Memphis/Arkansas bridge opened in 1949. The DeSoto opened in the mid 1970's
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edwaleni

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2020, 10:37:56 PM »

Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they’ve long since ruled out a retrofit.


I never did say it definitely was, it was more of a quick judgement based on memory. I had thought the I-55 bridge was more similar to the Caruthersville Bridge and that the De Soto bridge was older.
That’s fair. Neither of them look very new (by my standards, anyways). The Memphis-Arkansas (I-55) bridge was probably ahead of its time when it opened. It just doesn’t hold up to standards now.

The Memphis/Arkansas bridge opened in 1949. The DeSoto opened in the mid 1970's

DeSoto opened August of 1973. It peaked in AADT in the early 2000's with 50k plus.

It's inspection rating got somewhat bad by 2013 before a refurb was done. It rates poorly now due to the curved steel beams over the roadway when you drive under the superstructure. You can see where they have been reinforced but after recent over height truck issues with bridges in Washington and Indiana causing the span to topple or weaken, they are taking a different view of these now than they did in 1973.
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2trailertrucker

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2020, 01:50:25 PM »

The major reason for the bridges being rehabbed or replaced is, IMHO, the I-94 bridge collapse in Minnesota. Ever since then, bridges have become a priority.
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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2020, 12:29:50 AM »

The major reason for the bridges being rehabbed or replaced is, IMHO, the I-94 I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota. Ever since then, bridges have become a priority.

FTFY.

But the DeSoto Bridge rehab long predates the I-35W bridge collapse.  The main driving force behind rehabbing the DeSoto Bridge is the threat of an earthquake along the New Madrid Fault.  It's really more accurate to call it a seismic retrofit.
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edwaleni

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2020, 09:56:12 AM »

The major reason for the bridges being rehabbed or replaced is, IMHO, the I-94 I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota. Ever since then, bridges have become a priority.

FTFY.

But the DeSoto Bridge rehab long predates the I-35W bridge collapse.  The main driving force behind rehabbing the DeSoto Bridge is the threat of an earthquake along the New Madrid Fault.  It's really more accurate to call it a seismic retrofit.

This is what they don't like now on the DeSoto. The left and right sides are at risk of an overheight event.

There is one at each end and three where the sections join.

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seicer

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2020, 12:49:55 PM »

Seems to be a fracture critical issue, too.
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rte66man

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2020, 01:36:16 PM »

Westbound



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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2020, 03:27:58 AM »

If an earthquake hits, will the Frisco and Harahan bridges be at as much risk as the I-55 bridge?

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edwaleni

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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2020, 11:14:13 AM »

If an earthquake hits, will the Frisco and Harahan bridges be at as much risk as the I-55 bridge?

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As for the Frisco and Harahan, I would worry about its one shortcoming, that is the limestone block masonry used for the support piers.

The serious tremblor would attempt to liquidfy that masonry loose. It was made to support up/down pressures, not side to side.

Anything made with with steel reinforced piers may sway, but then it depends on how much energy gets pushed up into the superstructure, which would make it topple.

Most of the remediation around St Louis on modern highway bridges involved sway bars and springs. The bridge could sway, but enough pressure would be in place to keep it from toppling.

Fortunately, the Cairo Bridge piers are made with formed concrete, but a tremblor would most likely take the span down due to it being so top heavy.
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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2020, 06:48:15 PM »

Heads up!
http://westkentuckystar.com/News/Local-Regional/Western-Kentucky/Comment-Now-on-Cairo-Bridge-Replacement-Project.aspx
"Construction on a new bridge is expected to start in five to ten years"
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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2020, 09:09:08 PM »

Here's the website for the project: https://us51bridge.com/

According to the virtual public meeting presentation, they're shooting for construction around 2026-2027.
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Re: New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2020, 10:04:54 PM »

It will be a sad day when those two old bridges at Cairo come down.
Nonetheless, with the threat of the fault looming, I can see the benefits of replacing them.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 10:09:55 PM by ThatRandomOshawott »
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