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Author Topic: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?  (Read 1796 times)

cpzilliacus

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More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« on: May 16, 2018, 12:42:36 PM »

WTOP Radio: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond? Business leaders push them to ease traffic jams

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A group of powerful business leaders is calling for more toll lanes on highways from Richmond, Virginia, to Baltimore.

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The first focus of the Greater Washington Partnership’s toll lane push is expected to be on Maryland’s plans for toll lanes around the Capital Beltway and up part of Interstate 270, with lobbying from the CEOs of some of the largest companies in Maryland, Virginia and the District to get the rules in Maryland to match those on Virginia’s Interstate 495 Express Lanes.
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plain

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 02:44:28 PM »

WTOP Radio: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond? Business leaders push them to ease traffic jams

Quote
A group of powerful business leaders is calling for more toll lanes on highways from Richmond, Virginia, to Baltimore.

Quote
The first focus of the Greater Washington Partnership’s toll lane push is expected to be on Maryland’s plans for toll lanes around the Capital Beltway and up part of Interstate 270, with lobbying from the CEOs of some of the largest companies in Maryland, Virginia and the District to get the rules in Maryland to match those on Virginia’s Interstate 495 Express Lanes.
Ummm....

SM-S820L

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cpzilliacus

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 02:56:03 PM »


Ummm....

SM-S820L

There's no need for toll roads or managed HOV/toll lanes need to be owned outright or leased to a private-sector toll concession.

Not even a concession owned by Rich Uncle PennyBags (sometimes called Monopoly Man).
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 03:14:58 PM by cpzilliacus »
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plain

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 03:41:59 PM »

Lol agreed. Maybe I would've felt differently about all of these HOT lanes popping up if they were ran by a classic public authority or by the state(s) but I feel like these private owners are charging whatever they feel like charging. But at least the Norfolk ones are reasonable.
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Jmiles32

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 03:55:58 PM »

Not really sure where HOT lanes in the Richmond metro area would even work. Furthermore, the I-95 reversible HOT lanes likely can't be extended any further south than Exit 126 due to the financial and logistical limitations of the current system. Seems like some sort of publicity stunt IMO.
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TheOneKEA

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 07:10:45 PM »

Not really sure where HOT lanes in the Richmond metro area would even work. Furthermore, the I-95 reversible HOT lanes likely can't be extended any further south than Exit 126 due to the financial and logistical limitations of the current system. Seems like some sort of publicity stunt IMO.

IMO it was not optimal to extend the HOT lanes as far south as they were. The longer the reversible carriage way gets, the harder it becomes to quickly and easily reverse its flow to suit the traffic situation, and the more problems it causes at the ramps to and from the GP lanes. It would have been far more optimal, IMO, to have built two carriageways like the MDTA did north of Baltimore.
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Beltway

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 10:55:52 PM »

IMO it was not optimal to extend the HOT lanes as far south as they were. The longer the reversible carriage way gets, the harder it becomes to quickly and easily reverse its flow to suit the traffic situation, and the more problems it causes at the ramps to and from the GP lanes. It would have been far more optimal, IMO, to have built two carriageways like the MDTA did north of Baltimore.

Unless they build that all the way to the 14th Street Bridge then it would not be a matching and functional design.  As it was the reversible roadway between south of Springfield and the 14th Street Bridge was completed back in 1975.
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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2018, 09:23:31 AM »

The longer the reversible carriage way gets, the harder it becomes to quickly and easily reverse its flow to suit the traffic situation

AFAIK, the reversible lanes operate on a set schedule that isn't changed due to traffic flow.  Yes, it takes longer to clear them out when the lanes are longer, but that happens in the middle of the day/night, when traffic volumes are lower.
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Henry

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 09:28:09 AM »

Hey, it's I-95! But yeah, I don't see any need for any HOT lanes, especially in the current configuration between DC and Fredericksburg.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 09:52:30 AM »

Hey, it's I-95! But yeah, I don't see any need for any HOT lanes, especially in the current configuration between DC and Fredericksburg.

Have you ever sat in the congestion on I-95 between DC and Fredericksburg?
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Beltway

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2018, 10:06:31 AM »

The longer the reversible carriage way gets, the harder it becomes to quickly and easily reverse its flow to suit the traffic situation
AFAIK, the reversible lanes operate on a set schedule that isn't changed due to traffic flow.  Yes, it takes longer to clear them out when the lanes are longer, but that happens in the middle of the day/night, when traffic volumes are lower.

AFAIK, the southernmost extension proposal is to Massaponax.  South of there the directional spilt for rush hours is little or nothing.  No need for reversible lanes south of there.
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abefroman329

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2018, 10:26:07 AM »

The longer the reversible carriage way gets, the harder it becomes to quickly and easily reverse its flow to suit the traffic situation
AFAIK, the reversible lanes operate on a set schedule that isn't changed due to traffic flow.  Yes, it takes longer to clear them out when the lanes are longer, but that happens in the middle of the day/night, when traffic volumes are lower.

AFAIK, the southernmost extension proposal is to Massaponax.  South of there the directional spilt for rush hours is little or nothing.  No need for reversible lanes south of there.

I think there's enough people commuting from there to DC/NoVA to warrant a directional split.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2018, 11:05:59 AM »

Former Gov. Bob McDonnell was largely responsible for the push for a private operator of the HOT lanes in VA. I'm not sure if this was for ideological reasons (preference for private vendors and operators), financial (from a state budget perpsective) or financial (from Mr. McDonnell's perpsective, who was known to take gifts from private interests).

The I-66 HOT lane facility is operated by the state government, by contrast.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 11:17:46 AM »

Not really sure where HOT lanes in the Richmond metro area would even work. Furthermore, the I-95 reversible HOT lanes likely can't be extended any further south than Exit 126 due to the financial and logistical limitations of the current system. Seems like some sort of publicity stunt IMO.

There are ways that the concessionaire can speed the reversal of the lanes, such as using two or even three teams to drive the lanes after they close in one direction and prior to reversal.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 11:21:36 AM »

Former Gov. Bob McDonnell was largely responsible for the push for a private operator of the HOT lanes in VA. I'm not sure if this was for ideological reasons (preference for private vendors and operators), financial (from a state budget perpsective) or financial (from Mr. McDonnell's perpsective, who was known to take gifts from private interests).

The I-66 HOT lane facility is operated by the state government, by contrast.

The ideology  favoring private-sector toll concession projects goes back to the administration of George F. Allen (R), in office 1994 to 1998, when the Public-Private Partnership Transportation Act was passed and signed into law by Allen.
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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2018, 11:58:51 AM »

Not really sure where HOT lanes in the Richmond metro area would even work. Furthermore, the I-95 reversible HOT lanes likely can't be extended any further south than Exit 126 due to the financial and logistical limitations of the current system. Seems like some sort of publicity stunt IMO.

There are ways that the concessionaire can speed the reversal of the lanes, such as using two or even three teams to drive the lanes after they close in one direction and prior to reversal.

How are the lanes closed?  Are the closed all at one time, sections at one time, or in sequential order based on the flow of traffic. 

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abefroman329

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2018, 02:08:10 PM »

Not really sure where HOT lanes in the Richmond metro area would even work. Furthermore, the I-95 reversible HOT lanes likely can't be extended any further south than Exit 126 due to the financial and logistical limitations of the current system. Seems like some sort of publicity stunt IMO.

There are ways that the concessionaire can speed the reversal of the lanes, such as using two or even three teams to drive the lanes after they close in one direction and prior to reversal.

How are the lanes closed?  Are the closed all at one time, sections at one time, or in sequential order based on the flow of traffic.

I think they're all closed to new users at the same time.  Then, once the lanes are empty, they're opened to the reverse flow of traffic.  And I sort of assumed they used cameras to determine when the lanes were clear of traffic and could be reversed, not teams of drivers.
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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2018, 09:07:23 PM »

Hey, it's I-95! But yeah, I don't see any need for any HOT lanes, especially in the current configuration between DC and Fredericksburg.

Have you ever sat in the congestion on I-95 between DC and Fredericksburg?

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2018, 09:10:23 PM »

Former Gov. Bob McDonnell was largely responsible for the push for a private operator of the HOT lanes in VA. I'm not sure if this was for ideological reasons (preference for private vendors and operators), financial (from a state budget perpsective) or financial (from Mr. McDonnell's perpsective, who was known to take gifts from private interests).

The I-66 HOT lane facility is operated by the state government, by contrast.


The I-495 lanes were contracted for by Tim Kaine’s administration, not McDonnell’s. I don’t recall the timing on the I-95 deal. I-66 inside the Beltway is run by VDOT; i-66 outside the Beltway will be a PPTA arrangement (agreed to by the McAuliffe administration).
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Beltway

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2018, 09:21:27 PM »

How are the lanes closed?  Are the closed all at one time, sections at one time, or in sequential order based on the flow of traffic.
I think they're all closed to new users at the same time.  Then, once the lanes are empty, they're opened to the reverse flow of traffic.  And I sort of assumed they used cameras to determine when the lanes were clear of traffic and could be reversed, not teams of drivers.

That is the way it has always worked, from the first 11 mile installation in 1975 between south of Springfield and the Eads Street interchange where the express lanes become dual-divided.  Close all the gates for that direction, let the traffic empty out, conduct a flushing operation to remove any disabled vehicles (rare today but common back in the days of carburators and bias ply tires), then open all the gates for the opposite direction.  Back in the days with widely spaced cameras they did need to use at least one vehicle to run the length and verify that it is clear.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 09:24:37 PM by Beltway »
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cpzilliacus

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 11:50:56 PM »

Back in the days with widely spaced cameras they did need to use at least one vehicle to run the length and verify that it is clear.

Transurban, no longer VDOT, now runs the reversal operation from the current south end just south of I-95 Exit 143 (VA-610, Garrisonville Road) in Stafford County - to the north end on I-395 still at Eads Street near the Pentagon in Arlington County, as described above.  I believe it is still done by at least one Transurban truck running the entire length of the managed lanes before the managed lanes are opened to traffic in the "other" direction. 

The I-395 part of the corridor, from Turkeycock Run (near the  Fairfax County/City of Alexandria border to  Eads Street) is still run as an HOV-3 facility, though it will become an HOV/Toll facility in relatively near future (Transurban is currently adding a third lane to the two existing lanes).
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Beltway

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2018, 06:17:43 AM »

Transurban, no longer VDOT, now runs the reversal operation from the current south end just south of I-95 Exit 143 (VA-610, Garrisonville Road) in Stafford County - to the north end on I-395 still at Eads Street near the Pentagon in Arlington County, as described above.  I believe it is still done by at least one Transurban truck running the entire length of the managed lanes before the managed lanes are opened to traffic in the "other" direction. 

Camera coverage is at least one per mile and theoretically may be able to view the entire reversible roadway, but in rainy weather probably not.

The I-395 part of the corridor, from Turkeycock Run (near the  Fairfax County/City of Alexandria border to  Eads Street) is still run as an HOV-3 facility, though it will become an HOV/Toll facility in relatively near future (Transurban is currently adding a third lane to the two existing lanes).

I drove that a few weeks ago and it is well under construction.   I did drive that new reversible HOV ramp at Seminary Road about a year ago.
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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2018, 05:06:52 PM »

I feel like I read somewhere VDOT was considering an extension of the HOT lanes from the Springfield interchange to Wilson Bridge. Anyone know if that's true or not? Not really sure how it would work due to the space limitations and current Thru and Local set up. Regardless, there appears to be enough room to add a 3rd thru lane in each direction, something that section of the Beltway could definitely use.
 
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Beltway

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2018, 05:35:43 PM »

I feel like I read somewhere VDOT was considering an extension of the HOT lanes from the Springfield interchange to Wilson Bridge. Anyone know if that's true or not? Not really sure how it would work due to the space limitations and current Thru and Local set up. Regardless, there appears to be enough room to add a 3rd thru lane in each direction, something that section of the Beltway could definitely use.

The 7.5 mile WWB Project includes future 3rd lanes on the express roadways.  It looks like a couple short sections were omitted near US-1, probably pending building the future HOV easterly ramps between US-1 and I-495.

I can't seem to find it now, but there was a "I-495 Gap Project" study to address the section between the Springfield Interchange and the WWB Project, that currently has 4 lanes each way.  One proposal was to widen that to 5 lanes each way with the inner lane HOV, and thus have HOV/busway lanes extended from Springfield to east of MD-210 Indian Head Highway.
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Jmiles32

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Re: More toll lanes from Balto. to Richmond?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2018, 03:10:29 PM »

I feel like I read somewhere VDOT was considering an extension of the HOT lanes from the Springfield interchange to Wilson Bridge. Anyone know if that's true or not? Not really sure how it would work due to the space limitations and current Thru and Local set up. Regardless, there appears to be enough room to add a 3rd thru lane in each direction, something that section of the Beltway could definitely use.

The 7.5 mile WWB Project includes future 3rd lanes on the express roadways.  It looks like a couple short sections were omitted near US-1, probably pending building the future HOV easterly ramps between US-1 and I-495.

I can't seem to find it now, but there was a "I-495 Gap Project" study to address the section between the Springfield Interchange and the WWB Project, that currently has 4 lanes each way.  One proposal was to widen that to 5 lanes each way with the inner lane HOV, and thus have HOV/busway lanes extended from Springfield to east of MD-210 Indian Head Highway.

Interesting. I guess the question is when exactly a project like that will actually happen. My guess is that VDOT is probably waiting for Maryland to finalize their own Beltway Express Lanes Plan first, and then will decide what to do from there.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 03:17:07 PM by Jmiles32 »
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