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Author Topic: CA 85  (Read 755 times)

Max Rockatansky

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CA 85
« on: June 13, 2018, 07:31:14 PM »

Did CA 85 west from CA 17 to US 101.  I wasn't sure how the photos would come out with the glare but they turned out reasonable:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskCRTURQ

Kniwt

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 08:06:16 PM »

There's some mighty-vintage button copy on the original section of CA 85, probably 50+ years old. This one in particular has always bugged me:

https://flic.kr/p/287i53w

The sign says CA 237 and southbound US 101 are at the next exit, but it really should be TO South 101, since it's another 3 miles until you actually reach 101 that way. It seems surprising that the sign has been wrong for decades.

(And a closer 85 north -> 101 south connection exists at Moffett Blvd. anyway, although that wouldn't be the best route to the control city of San Jose.)
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kurumi

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2018, 08:48:35 PM »

There's some mighty-vintage button copy on the original section of CA 85, probably 50+ years old. This one in particular has always bugged me:

https://flic.kr/p/287i53w

The sign says CA 237 and southbound US 101 are at the next exit, but it really should be TO South 101, since it's another 3 miles until you actually reach 101 that way. It seems surprising that the sign has been wrong for decades.

But there's not enough roooooom on the sign for that. /s (On EB 237, the ramp for NB 85 is marked NB 101 (no "TO") though there are 3 exits remaining on NB 85)
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2018, 11:44:53 PM »

There's some mighty-vintage button copy on the original section of CA 85, probably 50+ years old. This one in particular has always bugged me:

https://flic.kr/p/287i53w

The sign says CA 237 and southbound US 101 are at the next exit, but it really should be TO South 101, since it's another 3 miles until you actually reach 101 that way. It seems surprising that the sign has been wrong for decades.

But there's not enough roooooom on the sign for that. /s (On EB 237, the ramp for NB 85 is marked NB 101 (no "TO") though there are 3 exits remaining on NB 85)

There is one from the same era in Fresno on Jensen Avenue heading eastbound showing the ramp for CA 99 north as routing directly to CA 41 rather than "TO."  It is an old button-copy from the era when CA 41 was actually on Jensen Avenue and co-signed briefly on CA 99.  Same situation there as well, no room for the "TO" without a new sign...so why change it I suppose?

Anyways, something I dig about the Bay Area freeways is the glut of old button-copy signage.  Generally I'm not a big fan of taking freeway albums, but here there is actually worthwhile signage to photograph.

myosh_tino

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2018, 11:26:42 PM »

There's some mighty-vintage button copy on the original section of CA 85, probably 50+ years old. This one in particular has always bugged me:

https://flic.kr/p/287i53w

The sign says CA 237 and southbound US 101 are at the next exit, but it really should be TO South 101, since it's another 3 miles until you actually reach 101 that way. It seems surprising that the sign has been wrong for decades.

(And a closer 85 north -> 101 south connection exists at Moffett Blvd. anyway, although that wouldn't be the best route to the control city of San Jose.)

As this sign is located in my neck of the woods, let me try to shed some light on why US 101 appears on the CA-237 exit signs.

Originally, at the CA-237 exit the gantry held 3 signs... CA-237/US 101 South to Oakland/San Jose, a 1/2 mile advance guide sign for Evelyn Avenue and a pull-through showing US 101 North to San Francisco.  Here's a photo of the old signs from the AARoads Gallery...



To me, this a major decision point for travelers on northbound 85.  Because there is no direct ramp from north 85 to south 101, these signs are directing drivers bound for south 101 to use 237 and those bound for north 101 to stay on 85.

Unfortunately, when this gantry was replaced back in the early 2000's with a new gantry, the signs were relocated to before the gore point...



So the new gantry held signs for the CA-237 exit and the Evelyn Ave advance guide sign but because it didn't span the entire freeway like the old one did, the pull-through was put on a separate gantry located *after* the 237 exit, seen in the background of the above photo.  It's most definitely an odd setup and a case where the shields used on the old signs made sense (to me anyways).  Note: the US 101 North pull-through has since been replaced with a 1 1/2 mile advance guide sign for northbound 101 (GMSV).

IINM, there was a discussion about this particular Caltrans signing practice in another thread and how that is slowly starting to change.  For example, the north Mathilda Ave exit from north 101 used to read "Mathilda Avenue North/CA-237 EAST" but was changed to "TO EAST CA-237/Mathilda Ave North" as part of a recent sign replacement project.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:32:21 PM by myosh_tino »
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2018, 01:30:31 PM »

Finished my blog post on CA 85.  There was a lot more to the LRN 239/LRN 114 business than I thought:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2018/06/california-state-route-85.html

myosh_tino

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2018, 03:33:34 PM »

Finished my blog post on CA 85.  There was a lot more to the LRN 239/LRN 114 business than I thought:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2018/06/california-state-route-85.html

Just a couple of comments on your blog post, which was really well done.

* Oddly enough, most of the button-copy signs are now on the 1994 section of 85 between 17 and Stevens Creek Blvd.  Most of the old signs on the original portion of 85 were recently replaced except for the ones around the El Camino Real interchange and the 85/280 interchange in Cupertino.

* I think it's worth noting that De Anza Blvd was also the original surface alignment of CA-85.  Prior to the opening of the freeway, maps showed CA-85 being routed down De Anza Blvd (or Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road) to CA-9 in Saratoga and along I-280 between the existing freeway and De Anza.  There are roadside signs posted on the ramps from I-280 to De Anza that have a greenout patch covering a CA-85 shield (GMSV: from South 280 and from North 280)
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Quote from: golden eagle
If I owned a dam and decided to donate it to charity, would I be giving a dam? I'm sure that might be a first because no one really gives a dam.

Max Rockatansky

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2018, 04:03:06 PM »

Finished my blog post on CA 85.  There was a lot more to the LRN 239/LRN 114 business than I thought:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2018/06/california-state-route-85.html

Just a couple of comments on your blog post, which was really well done.

* Oddly enough, most of the button-copy signs are now on the 1994 section of 85 between 17 and Stevens Creek Blvd.  Most of the old signs on the original portion of 85 were recently replaced except for the ones around the El Camino Real interchange and the 85/280 interchange in Cupertino.

* I think it's worth noting that De Anza Blvd was also the original surface alignment of CA-85.  Prior to the opening of the freeway, maps showed CA-85 being routed down De Anza Blvd (or Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road) to CA-9 in Saratoga and along I-280 between the existing freeway and De Anza.  There are roadside signs posted on the ramps from I-280 to De Anza that have a greenout patch covering a CA-85 shield (GMSV: from South 280 and from North 280)

The second note is interesting.  I saw what you were talking about with 85 being on De Anza on the 1988 Map.  Iíll post an update when I get home today.  I suppose that adds a new wrinkle to the alignment history of 9 as well. 

sparker

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 04:24:06 PM »

The first time I saw a CA 85 shield on De Anza was at its southern end in downtown Saratoga at CA 9 circa 1968; I was visiting college friends from Santa Cruz and we were making a trip into San Jose via CA 9 and Saratoga Avenue.  At that time neither Gousha nor McNally maps showed state highway symbols on DeAnza (at that time simply Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road; the DeAnza name didn't appear until about 1975).  At that time, the roadgeek in me wanted to turn onto CA 85 to check it out -- but I wasn't driving, and the other folks in the car wanted to get up to Santa Clara University to pick up another friend, and Saratoga Ave. was the obvious direct route there.  So I didn't get to traverse 85 that day; that event came the next year on a solo trip north. 
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myosh_tino

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 05:51:13 PM »

The first time I saw a CA 85 shield on De Anza was at its southern end in downtown Saratoga at CA 9 circa 1968; I was visiting college friends from Santa Cruz and we were making a trip into San Jose via CA 9 and Saratoga Avenue.  At that time neither Gousha nor McNally maps showed state highway symbols on DeAnza (at that time simply Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road; the DeAnza name didn't appear until about 1975).

Prior to the 1994 opening of the CA-85 freeway, only the Cupertino portion (between Homestead and Bollinger) of that arterial was signed as "De Anza Boulevard".  To the north, the road was known as Sunnyvale-Saratoga Road and Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road to the south.  The CA-85 exits were originally signed as Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road but were changed to the current "De Anza Boulevard" shortly after the freeway opened when the city of San Jose agreed to change the name to De Anza Blvd so now within the city limits of Cupertino and San Jose, the road is known as De Anza Blvd.  Saratoga's portion, starting at Prospect Road retains the old name, Saratoga-Sunnyvale Road.
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If I owned a dam and decided to donate it to charity, would I be giving a dam? I'm sure that might be a first because no one really gives a dam.

Northcoast707

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Re: CA 85
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 05:51:24 PM »

Some early cartographic history (via Gousha) of the first segment of SR 85:  first shows up on the 1963 edition of the San Jose map in red double dashed lines with the description "Stevens (no "Creek") Freeway - proposed from just WNW of Moffett Blvd. cloverleaf to off the map just west of Cottle Rd. about 3/4 to 1 mile south of it's northern junction with the old Monterey Rd;  1964 edition: Stevens Freeway under construction from US 101 (WNW of Moffett Blvd. interchange south to future intersection with I-280) with the inscription "open 1965"; south and southeast to Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd. inscribed "proposed"; southeast to the connection with the southern end of Bayshore Freeway (US 101) the name becomes "West Valley Freeway proposed";  1965 edition: the first segment south to just beyond I-280 interchange now labelled "Stevens Creek Freeway sched. compl. late 1965" in triple dashed black lines;  1966 edition: this section now open (opened Oct. '65) with a open connection to I-280 (westbound I-280 to northbound SR 85).  Interesting sidebar: on the 1965 edition, I-280 is shown completed west to on/off ramps at Foothill Blvd. in Los Altos. (it was - I drove onto I-280 eastbound from here in January, 1965), but on the 1966 edition, it shows this part of the freeway as still under construction to where Homestead High School is.
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