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Author Topic: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel  (Read 3226 times)

SEWIGuy

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Re: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2018, 09:56:15 AM »

I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.


Because the cost is too high.  Most people flying into O'Hare don't go to the Loop anyway.  And if they do, they usually take a cab.

The main transit hubs of Chicago are in the Loop. I think all of Chicago's central bus terminals as well as Amtrak's Union Station are there. There are many people traveling between O'Hare and the Loop for exactly such reason. Not to mention taking a cab is too expensive for a lot of people. Last time I checked it cost upwards of $60-70 for one way fare. I wouldn't want to take an Uber/Lyft either. Which is why we should upgrade our transit between the Loop and O'Hare.


Again, most people flying into O'Hare are not headed for the loop.  And you don't have to head to the loop to access other transit services.

And while a cab might be expensive, so would building an express line.  Which apparently you would have someone else subsidize because it's true cost would dwarf a cab ride.

Not everyone flying to Heathrow is going to London, but they still built the Heathrow Express to Paddington Station.

Not everyone flying to Orlando is going to go to Miami, but they are still building Brightline.

They can't rebuild or raise new express lanes on I-90/94. It is pretty much locked from 630AM until 10AM. (the same after 4PM)

So going underground makes a lot of sense.


Only if it can be done economically.  So far that doesn't seem to be the case.
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silverback1065

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Re: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2018, 07:34:55 AM »

it's a scam, just like hyperloop.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2018, 10:16:35 AM »

it's a scam, just like hyperloop.


Yeah I'm not sure "scam" is the word I would use, but I have no idea why people think Musk is some sort of savant.  SpaceX profit is slim and woefully behind competitors like Boeing.  Tesla is losing money hand over fist.  Nothing else is beyond theoretical.

My person theory is that if his name was something like "Gene Schmidt" and had a midwestern accent, people would think he's a crackpot.
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silverback1065

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Re: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2018, 10:21:04 AM »

Hyperloop is a scam due to physics and other practical limitations. This idea is only a scam because the cost projections are bullshit.
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abefroman329

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Re: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2018, 11:11:23 AM »

I still think this doesnít rise to the level of a scam. When my momís best friendís father had Alzheimerís and their local car dealership took advantage of it by selling him a new car once a week, that was a scam. This is just proof that a fool and his money never shouldíve gotten together in the first place.
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edwaleni

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Re: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2018, 11:33:15 PM »

Hyperloop is a scam due to physics and other practical limitations. This idea is only a scam because the cost projections are bullshit.

The physics are not a scam, because they don't represent physical laws incorrectly.

Cost projections are something else.  if you fear they have been severely under estimated, I can name a few bridges, tunnels and highways in the US that were terribly under estimated, but not considered scams.

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silverback1065

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Re: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2018, 09:05:42 AM »

Hyperloop is a scam due to physics and other practical limitations. This idea is only a scam because the cost projections are bullshit.

The physics are not a scam, because they don't represent physical laws incorrectly.

Cost projections are something else.  if you fear they have been severely under estimated, I can name a few bridges, tunnels and highways in the US that were terribly under estimated, but not considered scams.
they actually are and do, look it up.
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edwaleni

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Re: Chicago signs deal for new Tunnel
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2018, 09:47:06 AM »

Hyperloop is a scam due to physics and other practical limitations. This idea is only a scam because the cost projections are bullshit.

The physics are not a scam, because they don't represent physical laws incorrectly.

Cost projections are something else.  if you fear they have been severely under estimated, I can name a few bridges, tunnels and highways in the US that were terribly under estimated, but not considered scams.
they actually are and do, look it up.

I did. Here is the response. They don't questions the physics supporting it. They question the economics, social orders and resources required to make it work.

https://www.quora.com/Is-hyperloop-even-possible

Yes, absolutely.

The name is fancy but the idea itself is centuries old, originally sketched out in 1799. The whole concept is about making train travel faster by removing the two primary forces acting against the vehicle: air resistance and track friction.

Air resistance is easily solved by placing the train in a tunnel and pumping out all the air to create a vacuum. This leaves track friction as the major problem, which was e solved by using a high-pressure jet of air at the rear to raise and push the train capsule forward.

This is exactly what powers the pneumatic tube systems that deliver mail and packages, as seen in large buildings like factories, banks, hospitals and warehouses:



Unfortunately, this is hard to use with heavy vehicles and multiple capsules moving at once, but we actually have a much better modern alternative called MagLev technology. The name stands for magnetic levitation, and the concept uses powerful electromagnets and linear induction electric motors to let the train hover and move over the track without ever touching anything, and without any air involved. This is already being used today for quick routes like the Shanghai SMT line.

So it turns out we already have all the necessary technology to create a train system that can reach 1000s of mph to become the fastest mode of commercial travel available - but then why havenít we built it yet?

Itís because the real forces that govern projects like this are engineering practicality and economic feasibility.

Building something so massive, high-tech, and with such demanding maintenance and energy requirements, is just too prohibitively expensive for even the richest countries today.

Tunnels (or above ground tubes) are extremely costly and take years just to plan, especially for any major distance beyond a single city. Maintaining a vacuum with an airtight seal over long distances is incredibly challenging, and the air pumps and maglev track will be very power-hungry. There are also many logistical challenges, like how to keep up the speed while stopping at all the locations that people would want to go to, and dealing with inevitable real-world scenarios like crashes, breakdowns, and attacks. The lack of an easy fail-safe from power loss or track failure also means perfect reliability is crucial, further increasing costs exponentially.

There are a great many things we can build if we had no economic limitations, but unfortunately the world just isnít so simple and weíll need to make some big advances in society, politics, energy efficiency and general engineering practices to build something like a vacuum train (or ďhyperloopĒ as Elon likes to call it). Itís definitely real technology, but just not realistic enough for our world today.

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