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Author Topic: I-80/I-99 West Interchange  (Read 2634 times)

webny99

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2018, 10:31:01 PM »

Well, it's not uniform, but it goes in and out several times:
[link snipped]

Perhaps a more fundamental question is why PA refuses to set urban speed limits above 55 in the first place.
I'm sure the segments of I-390 (north of the thruway), I-490, and NY 531 posted 65 mph are considered part of Rochester's urban area. I've never heard of the "urban area" thing in other states, either.

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2018, 01:16:54 AM »

This is the most recent design I have seen, and it was designated as “final” in 1999. “Old” PA 26 would basically be cut off from I-80/I-99 access. (And if I had to guess, PA 26 would likely be truncated to PA 64 near Pleasant Gap.)

That's it, I was looking for it but couldn't find it.

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build.
With all of that structural work, in the Northeast? I believe it.

Gnutella

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2018, 04:52:44 AM »

Well, it's not uniform, but it goes in and out several times:
[link snipped]

Perhaps a more fundamental question is why PA refuses to set urban speed limits above 55 in the first place.

As a general rule in Pennsylvania, Republican governors prefer higher speed limits, and Democrat governors prefer lower speed limits. The reason why Pennsylvania didn't raise its speed limit to 65 in 1987 was because the new governor that year, Bob Casey, was a Democrat. Then came Republican Tom Ridge in 1995, and the speed limit was raised to 65 within six months of him taking office. Then came Democrat Ed Rendell in 2003, who put in place the ridiculous "urban" 55 zones, and then came Republican Tom Corbett in 2011, who raised the speed limit to 70 in conjunction with the Act 89 gas tax increase in 2013. Thankfully he did that, because there's no way that Democrat Tom Wolf would have agreed to it.

Anyway, I can't find the article, but I remember reading that PennDOT was going to study all the 55 zones in the state to determine whether raising them to 65 was feasible. Given how the 70 zones greatly expanded after just one year, I wouldn't be surprised if several 55 zones were raised to 65 in the coming years.
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Beltway

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2018, 05:11:39 AM »

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build.
With all of that structural work, in the Northeast? I believe it.

Seven overpass scale bridges and three 2-lane bridges about 1,200 feet long.  In a rural area.  Should cost less than 1/2 of that IMHO.
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hbelkins

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2018, 10:49:05 AM »

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build.
With all of that structural work, in the Northeast? I believe it.

Seven overpass scale bridges and three 2-lane bridges about 1,200 feet long.  In a rural area.  Should cost less than 1/2 of that IMHO.

How much excavation and fill will be required? Been awhile since I've been there, but I seem to remember that the westbound lanes of I-80 butt up against a mountain there. Plus, will there be acid rock to mitigate the way there was south of State College?
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qguy

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2018, 04:55:30 PM »

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build.
With all of that structural work, in the Northeast? I believe it.
Seven overpass scale bridges and three 2-lane bridges about 1,200 feet long.  In a rural area.  Should cost less than 1/2 of that IMHO.
How much excavation and fill will be required? Been awhile since I've been there, but I seem to remember that the westbound lanes of I-80 butt up against a mountain there. Plus, will there be acid rock to mitigate the way there was south of State College?

^^ This.

I'll bet the prevalence of pyritic rock has a lot to do with the cost. The northwestern portion of the interchange will require excavation through the Bald Eagle Ridge. This is the same ridge that caused so much grief with its pyritic rock where I-99 crosses it between State College and Port Matilda about 20 miles to the southwest.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 04:58:27 PM by qguy »
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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2018, 11:49:53 AM »

This is the most recent design I have seen, and it was designated as “final” in 1999. “Old” PA 26 would basically be cut off from I-80/I-99 access. (And if I had to guess, PA 26 would likely be truncated to PA 64 near Pleasant Gap.)

That's it, I was looking for it but couldn't find it.

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build. 



Seven bridge/culvert structures to preserve local access through that interchange.   Add pyritic or acid rock and prevailing wage agreements, and yes $185 million seems in line for Northeastern costs.  Worked on two New Mexico heavy civil highway projects, and often wondered why laborers and craftsmen on those projects did not get a "scale" wage, or Davis-Bacon, while workers in much more protected or "safe" enviroments - schools, courthouses, etc. enjoyed a generous scale wage. 
[/quote]
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Beltway

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2018, 12:14:37 AM »

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build. 
Seven bridge/culvert structures to preserve local access through that interchange.   Add pyritic or acid rock and prevailing wage agreements, and yes $185 million seems in line for Northeastern costs.  Worked on two New Mexico heavy civil highway projects, and often wondered why laborers and craftsmen on those projects did not get a "scale" wage, or Davis-Bacon, while workers in much more protected or "safe" enviroments - schools, courthouses, etc. enjoyed a generous scale wage. 

But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.

It certainly is very far from the high level of urbanization of the Northeast Corridor major metro areas.
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qguy

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2018, 02:30:45 PM »

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build. 
Seven bridge/culvert structures to preserve local access through that interchange.   Add pyritic or acid rock and prevailing wage agreements, and yes $185 million seems in line for Northeastern costs.  Worked on two New Mexico heavy civil highway projects, and often wondered why laborers and craftsmen on those projects did not get a "scale" wage, or Davis-Bacon, while workers in much more protected or "safe" enviroments - schools, courthouses, etc. enjoyed a generous scale wage. 
But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.

It certainly is very far from the high level of urbanization of the Northeast Corridor major metro areas.

The midwest starts (if one is traveling towards the west) or ends (if one is traveling towards the east) at the west foot of the westernmost ridge of the Appalachian Mountains. The proposed interchange is in the middle of the Appalachian Mountains, indeed it is to the east of their highest point. So it is firmly in the northeast, if somewhat close to its western edge.

[Edited to change "Allegheny" to "Appalachian."]
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 12:32:23 AM by qguy »
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froggie

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2018, 02:46:01 PM »

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build. 
Seven bridge/culvert structures to preserve local access through that interchange.   Add pyritic or acid rock and prevailing wage agreements, and yes $185 million seems in line for Northeastern costs.  Worked on two New Mexico heavy civil highway projects, and often wondered why laborers and craftsmen on those projects did not get a "scale" wage, or Davis-Bacon, while workers in much more protected or "safe" enviroments - schools, courthouses, etc. enjoyed a generous scale wage. 

But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.

It certainly is very far from the high level of urbanization of the Northeast Corridor major metro areas.

Whether it's Northeastern or Midwestern doesn't matter given the level of blasting needed and presence of pyritic rock in the area.  $185M is very much in the realm of reality for the project.
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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2018, 03:25:39 PM »

Nice design but I can't imagine why it would cost $185 million to build. 
Seven bridge/culvert structures to preserve local access through that interchange.   Add pyritic or acid rock and prevailing wage agreements, and yes $185 million seems in line for Northeastern costs.  Worked on two New Mexico heavy civil highway projects, and often wondered why laborers and craftsmen on those projects did not get a "scale" wage, or Davis-Bacon, while workers in much more protected or "safe" enviroments - schools, courthouses, etc. enjoyed a generous scale wage. 

But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.

I-99 is the dividing line. (In New York, I-390 is the dividing line.)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 03:27:52 PM by 1 »
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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2018, 05:07:34 PM »

But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.

I-99 is the dividing line. (In New York, I-390 is the dividing line.)
So what does that make Rochester?  I'm assuming we'd use either I-390's proposed route past I-590, the Genesee River (I'd say north of the Thruway if using it; it's more significant than I-390 at least by that point), or put the entire metro in one or the other.
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hbelkins

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2018, 05:21:12 PM »

But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.

I-99 is the dividing line. (In New York, I-390 is the dividing line.)

Anyone who thinks Pittsburgh is in the midwest has been lobotomized, although to be fair, it's not really in the northeast either.
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webny99

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2018, 05:25:26 PM »

But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.
I-99 is the dividing line. (In New York, I-390 is the dividing line.)
So what does that make Rochester?  I'm assuming we'd use either I-390's proposed route past I-590, the Genesee River (I'd say north of the Thruway if using it; it's more significant than I-390 at least by that point), or put the entire metro in one or the other.

Backing it up a step, I don't think there's a hard line between Northeast and Midwest, especially not in Upstate NY.
Western NY is very much part of the Rust Belt, and there is a distinct culture shift in the general vicinity of I-81, arguably between there and I-390. However, I think the entire state qualifies as part of the larger "Northeast" region (not the"East Coast", which refers primarily to the I-95 corridor).

Culturally, the Rochester metro is decidedly less "rust belt" than Buffalo, while also decidedly having less East Coast influence than Syracuse. But you can't very well split the metro in two, which is why I think the term "Midwestern" shouldn't apply to anything in New York State. Culturally, maybe in some ways, but not geographically.

Sam

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I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2018, 07:49:42 PM »

Backing it up a step, I don't think there's a hard line between Northeast and Midwest, especially not in Upstate NY.


I agree there’s no hard line, but Buffalo is the transition. Its “personality” is almost equal parts Northeastern, Midwestern and Southern Ontario.
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Alps

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2018, 08:16:15 PM »

But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.

I-99 is the dividing line. (In New York, I-390 is the dividing line.)

Anyone who thinks Pittsburgh is in the midwest has been lobotomized, although to be fair, it's not really in the northeast either.
Pittsburgh is in the midwest.

sparker

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2018, 08:48:54 PM »

Pittsburgh is in the midwest.

For better or worse, the NFL agrees with that assessment.
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hbelkins

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2018, 09:54:28 PM »

But that gets into the debate about whether that part of Pennsylvania is Northeastern or Midwestern.

I-99 is the dividing line. (In New York, I-390 is the dividing line.)

Anyone who thinks Pittsburgh is in the midwest has been lobotomized, although to be fair, it's not really in the northeast either.
Pittsburgh is in the midwest.

Pittsburgh is in the Appalachian Mountains. Therefore it can't be in the midwest.
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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2018, 09:56:03 PM »

Trying to define the Midwest is like trying to define Upstate New York.  There's no set definition and, if this thread is any indication, everyone has their own opinion and they're all different...
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silverback1065

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2018, 10:35:46 PM »

pennsylvania is definitely NOT in the midwest by any definition I've ever seen.  I personally don't think the Dakotas or Kansas are in the Midwest though.  There is an official definition by the feds and penn isn't in it. 
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02 Park Ave

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2018, 10:59:09 PM »

If they drink "pop", they are in the midwest.
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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2018, 12:22:44 AM »

Whether it's Northeastern or Midwestern doesn't matter given the level of blasting needed and presence of pyritic rock in the area.  $185M is very much in the realm of reality for the project.

Blasting with modern explosives is not unusually expensive.  The pyritic rock is not much different from normal excavation, it is a matter of moving it to a prepared spoil area where it can be encapsulated.
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qguy

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2018, 12:29:36 AM »

We covered this once in another thread, here.

Demographers consider Pittsburgh to be the first midwestern city one comes to as one travels west across Pennsylvania. It's demographically midwestern even if one doesn't think of it as geographically midwestern.

Pittsburgh is in the Allegheny Plateau region of Pennsylvania (which extends into Ohio), not the Appalachian Mountain region, so yes, it can geographically be in the midwest. IOW, one can debate whether or not Pittsburgh is geographically in the midwest, but what is not debatable is that it definitely is not in the Appalachian Mountains.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 12:49:24 AM by qguy »
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sparker

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2018, 12:53:57 AM »

It's likely that much of the consideration of Pittsburgh as an eastern outpost of the Midwest is its location at the upper end of the Ohio River, which not only drains much of the Midwest east of the Mississippi but serves as the dividing line between the Midwest and the South.  The rationale is that if Cincinnati and Evansville can be considered within the Midwest because they're on the north side of the Ohio, then Pittsburgh must be recognized as such, since its central core lies north of the Monongahela (the southern feeder arm to the Ohio River, with the Allegheny being the northern equivalent), and no one, neither an area native nor any demographer, considers Pittsburgh to be a southern city by any means.  So the Midwest can claim Pittsburgh (and vice-versa) by a process of elimination. 
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hbelkins

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Re: I-80/I-99 West Interchange
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2018, 09:57:35 AM »

Pittsburgh is in the Allegheny Plateau region of Pennsylvania (which extends into Ohio), not the Appalachian Mountain region, so yes, it can geographically be in the midwest. IOW, one can debate whether or not Pittsburgh is geographically in the midwest, but what is not debatable is that it definitely is not in the Appalachian Mountains.

I would debate that geographical point with you.

If Pittsburgh is not in the Appalachian Mountains, then neither are Charleston WV, Morgantown WV, Pikeville KY, Cumberland MD, Asheville NC, Bristol TN/VA, Altoona PA, and any number of other eastern mountain cities  you may wish to name. The Appalachians aren't just one range, the way the Rockies are. The Appalachians encompass all the ranges. The Blue Ridge is a part of the Appalachians.
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