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Author Topic: Twinning NB-11  (Read 902 times)

Richard3

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Twinning NB-11
« on: June 30, 2018, 03:59:21 AM »

Last time I get through NB-11, I saw that works to twin the road between Shediac River and Bouctouche are on their way.  Tree cutting is done, and on many sections, land shaping is already begun. Also in progress, a bypass between Glenwood and Miramichi.

More details here:

http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/departments/dti/highways_roads/content/projects/route11.html
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MisterSG1

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Re: Twinning NB-11
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2018, 09:46:51 PM »

It's incredible that NB has all these freeways and plans for more.....look at the AADT values of such roads.

Come on MTO, why don't you give me a Hwy 410 extension that goes to Shelburne, and Owen Sound. Or how about an offshoot freeway from Shelburne that goes to Collingwood, and that new Hwy 26 freeway portion could be extended to go through Wasaga Beach and back to Hwy 400.


Of course I'm being sarcastic, but I wonder where the money comes from to build these roads which are not warranted in New Brunswick. Yes, I can understand the twinning of NB-2 as it gives a total freeway across New Brunswick as part of its portion of the TCH, but even that can be said as a waste. Sections between Grand Falls and Woodstock have an AADT lower than 3000.
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cbeach40

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Re: Twinning NB-11
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 09:14:03 PM »

I don't know the specifics of New Brunswick, but generally speaking I would guess that they are spending less proportionately on renewal and more on expansion. This could either be a result of having a younger network or greater willingness to let their system age.

For comparison, NB's highway capital construction budget is about $150 million for 2017-18. Ontario's is $1.4 billion.


And if you want to see highway widening projects that are of questionable warrant, justy take a look at 11 north of Huntsville, 11/17 east of Thunder Bay, 17 west of Arnprior, or all of Hwy 69. ;)
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MisterSG1

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Re: Twinning NB-11
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2018, 12:47:06 AM »

I don't know the specifics of New Brunswick, but generally speaking I would guess that they are spending less proportionately on renewal and more on expansion. This could either be a result of having a younger network or greater willingness to let their system age.

For comparison, NB's highway capital construction budget is about $150 million for 2017-18. Ontario's is $1.4 billion.


And if you want to see highway widening projects that are of questionable warrant, justy take a look at 11 north of Huntsville, 11/17 east of Thunder Bay, 17 west of Arnprior, or all of Hwy 69. ;)

For starters, New Brunswick and Ontario are like comparing a pebble to a boulder.

$150 million for a capital construction budget is impressive for a province which has just 750,000 people living in it. We are over 14 million give or take, so 1.4 billion is practically half their budget per capita.

Here's a map of NB traffic data from 2012:

http://www2.gnb.ca/content/dam/gnb/Departments/env/pdf/EIA-EIE/Registrations-Engegistrements/documents/EIARegistration1474/EIARegistration1474-AppendixF.pdf

New Brunswick Route 11's main cities it passes through are Shediac, Miramichi, Bathurst, and Campbellton which is a border town with Quebec.

Here are the populations of these "cities":

Shediac - 6600
Miramichi - 17,000 (metro area 27,000)
Bathurst - 12,000 (metro area 30,000)
Campbellton - 7,400 (metro area 18,000)

Essentially, one can think of a freeway version of NB-11 being a parallel alternate to NB-2, in a sense like how A-40 is parallel to A-20. It doesn't end there, New Brunswick is determined to then connect Miramichi and Fredericton by a freeway version of NB-8, as well as NB-7 having a freeway from Fredericton to Saint John.


The comparisons to Ontario examples aren't entirely fair, Hwy 11 north of Huntsville leads to a place larger than all the ones I mentioned, North Bay and even onwards to a smaller city but still larger than those mentioned, Timmins. Same goes for Sudbury and Hwy 69. As for Hwy 17....well remember that eventually that route would reach North Bay as well, an easy passage from Ottawa (not a small city like Fredericton) and North Bay.

As for twinning NB-11, I think at the very least, that there's a stronger argument for twinning Hwy 7 east of Peterborough.
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Alps

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Re: Twinning NB-11
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 12:58:32 AM »

I don't know the specifics of New Brunswick, but generally speaking I would guess that they are spending less proportionately on renewal and more on expansion. This could either be a result of having a younger network or greater willingness to let their system age.

For comparison, NB's highway capital construction budget is about $150 million for 2017-18. Ontario's is $1.4 billion.


And if you want to see highway widening projects that are of questionable warrant, justy take a look at 11 north of Huntsville, 11/17 east of Thunder Bay, 17 west of Arnprior, or all of Hwy 69. ;)

For starters, New Brunswick and Ontario are like comparing a pebble to a boulder.

$150 million for a capital construction budget is impressive for a province which has just 750,000 people living in it. We are over 14 million give or take, so 1.4 billion is practically half their budget per capita.
Per capita is a flawed rationale. You also have to look at density. A lot more people in Ontario have the opportunity to use transit. NB is a through province from QC to NS, whereas very few trips make it all the way through ON. This is a single-modal corridor. What is the traffic volume on the twinning section of NB 11? Anywhere above 10,000 should be twinned. Granted, not necessarily full freeway, but since the first half was already built, gotta finish the job.

cbeach40

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Re: Twinning NB-11
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 09:41:30 AM »

For starters, New Brunswick and Ontario are like comparing a pebble to a boulder.

Well, I was just speaking in generalities because someone else brought up said comparison:

Come on MTO, why don't you give me a Hwy 410 extension that goes to Shelburne, and Owen Sound. Or how about an offshoot freeway from Shelburne that goes to Collingwood, and that new Hwy 26 freeway portion could be extended to go through Wasaga Beach and back to Hwy 400.

Of course I'm being sarcastic, but I wonder where the money comes from to build these roads which are not warranted in New Brunswick. Yes, I can understand the twinning of NB-2 as it gives a total freeway across New Brunswick as part of its portion of the TCH, but even that can be said as a waste. Sections between Grand Falls and Woodstock have an AADT lower than 3000.

Again, I was speaking in generalities. Ontario's expansion prioritization is its own discussion on its own thread.


EDIT

So, had a chance to look over some numbers. In MTO's Central Region alone (Toronto, Durham, York, Simcoe, Peel, Halton, Hamilton, Niagara) in the last five years:

Traditional expansion contracts:                                    $853,605,553
Infrastructure Ontario projects (407e, 427 extension): $2,816,000,000

Not to mention traditional rehabilitation contracts:      $2,590,329,269
Plus as Alps mentioned, transit is an option here. Not feeling like delving into specifics like above, but the budget for Metrolinx in 2017-18 alone was around $2.2 billion.
And there's also, you know, the four other Regions of the province that aren't even included in that.

So if you're complaining about that Ontario's highway expansion as compared to New Brunswick, I guess what you're saying is there's too much here? ;)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 10:26:22 AM by cbeach40 »
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