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Author Topic: AASHTO Fall 2018  (Read 2966 times)

rschen7754

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sparker

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 01:08:32 AM »

They posted the list of applications early this year, so here we go: https://route.transportation.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/50/2018/09/000_USRN-List-of-Applications_-AM-AtlantaGA-2018.pdf

https://route.transportation.org/committee-notices-actions-and-approvals/past-meetings/ for the applications.

This is the most distinct "yawner" of the last several SCOURN meetings; essentially the equivalent of "no shit, Sherlock" to anyone regularly following the forum's topics.  NC's attempt to get the north side of I-295 established by not even mentioning the substandard features is a little humorous; I predict a "fail" on this one.  The rest, including labeling the Monroe toll bypass as "Bypass US 74" (again, N.S., S!) is pretty straightforward; no surprises.  Move along; nothing to see here, folks! :-/
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Bruce

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 01:45:17 AM »

I'm waiting for WSDOT to try and submit a new USBR. Perhaps the USBR 14 corridor, which lines up nicely with the newly-renamed Cascades to Palouse Trail.

Bickendan

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2018, 03:41:00 AM »

I'd like to see ODOT get some USBR's up. Or, you know, making the US 26 move from Market/Clay and Front (Naito) onto Broadway/5th/Sheridan, 3rd, and Arthur official.
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english si

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2018, 05:14:46 AM »

This is the most distinct "yawner" of the last several SCOURN meetings; essentially the equivalent of "no shit, Sherlock" to anyone regularly following the forum's topics.
The submissions are pretty much yawn-fest (US24 the only one with some vague interest). But there's a high number of likely rejections for what is very few applications.

AR US167 Bus - rejected, same as last time. Hopefully SCOURN will just scornfully copy-paste their rejection and change one sentence, like what happened with the application.

NC - some possibly rejected if SCOURN see past the wool. Can you put a US bannered highway on a toll facility outside of special cases like bridges/tunnels?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 05:24:31 AM by english si »
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cjk374

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2018, 06:42:44 AM »

There was always a US 167B in Thorton. I haven't been through there in awhile, so I don't know what "new route" they are referring to.
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Big John

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2018, 09:52:07 AM »

Can you put a US bannered highway on a toll facility outside of special cases like bridges/tunnels?
US 51 is on a toll road by Rockford IL.
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mvak36

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2018, 12:08:12 PM »

Are Indiana and Kentucky going to apply for the I-265 designation for that new segment they built a couple of years ago? Or are they just planning on leaving it the way it is?
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english si

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2018, 01:16:26 PM »

There was always a US 167B in Thorton. I haven't been through there in awhile, so I don't know what "new route" they are referring to.
Last time around, Arkansas had a load of entries to update stuff from the 50s and 60s that was de facto the routes of US highways, but not de jure. US176B was rejected as it didn't meet its parent at both ends.
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sparker

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2018, 02:57:55 PM »

Are Indiana and Kentucky going to apply for the I-265 designation for that new segment they built a couple of years ago? Or are they just planning on leaving it the way it is?

That's a real good question.  Either it's not deemed terribly important to either DOT, or there's some sort of possible jurisdictional dispute happening here; can't imagine any other explanation for lack of action re an I-designation for a short corridor section connecting two identically-numbered 3di's. 
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hbelkins

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2018, 03:46:48 PM »

Are Indiana and Kentucky going to apply for the I-265 designation for that new segment they built a couple of years ago? Or are they just planning on leaving it the way it is?

That's a real good question.  Either it's not deemed terribly important to either DOT, or there's some sort of possible jurisdictional dispute happening here; can't imagine any other explanation for lack of action re an I-designation for a short corridor section connecting two identically-numbered 3di's.

Ask here...

https://bpm.kytc.ky.gov/ApplicationBuilder/eFormRender.html?code=810A005056A2147711773738BD5BE87C&Process=PA-DV-ContactUs
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mvak36

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2018, 07:00:25 PM »

Are Indiana and Kentucky going to apply for the I-265 designation for that new segment they built a couple of years ago? Or are they just planning on leaving it the way it is?

That's a real good question.  Either it's not deemed terribly important to either DOT, or there's some sort of possible jurisdictional dispute happening here; can't imagine any other explanation for lack of action re an I-designation for a short corridor section connecting two identically-numbered 3di's.

Ask here...

https://bpm.kytc.ky.gov/ApplicationBuilder/eFormRender.html?code=810A005056A2147711773738BD5BE87C&Process=PA-DV-ContactUs

The link didn't work. It's asking me to log in.

EDIT: Never mind. I was able to get to the page by going through the KYTC home page. I asked them about the designation. I will post on here if I hear anything back from them.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 10:26:09 PM by mvak36 »
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ilpt4u

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2018, 09:13:24 PM »

Are Indiana and Kentucky going to apply for the I-265 designation for that new segment they built a couple of years ago? Or are they just planning on leaving it the way it is?
Is there some type of Signage issue, like not wanting to renumber Exits and Mile Markers? If the segments become 1 I-265, does I-265 need a bi-state continuous Mileage and Exit numbers? It is basically a 2 State 3/4 Beltway now...Is there precedent for Mile Markers resetting at the state line vs continous in this case? Full Multistate beltways (thinking I-275/Cincy) have continuous Mileage, not resetting, I believe. Not sure about the DC Beltway, and also not sure about the now 3-State I-295 in DE, NJ, and now PA

Would the I-Shield not be approved, until some of the Cloverleaves are removed/improved? Thinking I-265/I-65 IN, I-265/I-71, and I-265/I-64 KY (tho that one is fully on the existing KY I-265, the new segment with the Bridge and Tunnel makes I-265 a legit Suburban Bypass of the Downtown I-64 Thru Route, that could use some Flyovers for I-64 West to I-265 North/West and I-265 South/East to I-64 East)...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 09:42:12 PM by ilpt4u »
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mvak36

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2018, 10:30:50 PM »

Are Indiana and Kentucky going to apply for the I-265 designation for that new segment they built a couple of years ago? Or are they just planning on leaving it the way it is?
Is there some type of Signage issue, like not wanting to renumber Exits and Mile Markers? If the segments become 1 I-265, does I-265 need a bi-state continuous Mileage and Exit numbers? It is basically a 2 State 3/4 Beltway now...Is there precedent for Mile Markers resetting at the state line vs continous in this case? Full Multistate beltways (thinking I-275/Cincy) have continuous Mileage, not resetting, I believe. Not sure about the DC Beltway, and also not sure about the now 3-State I-295 in DE, NJ, and now PA

Would the I-Shield not be approved, until some of the Cloverleaves are removed/improved? Thinking I-265/I-65 IN, I-265/I-71, and I-265/I-64 KY (tho that one is fully on the existing KY I-265, the new segment with the Bridge and Tunnel makes I-265 a legit Suburban Bypass of the Downtown I-64 Thru Route, that could use some Flyovers for I-64 West to I-265 North/West and I-265 South/East to I-64 East)...

Usually they are continuous. The only example I can think of where they reset is I-270 when it crosses over from Missouri into Illinois so I guess it's not unprecedented. I emailed KYTC. We'll see what they say.
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nexus73

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2018, 10:40:34 PM »

Any word on I-210 replacing SR 210 in SoCal?

Rick
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ilpt4u

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2018, 11:06:00 PM »

I-680 resets at the Missouri River between Nebraska and Iowa

I-155 resets at the Mississippi between Tennessee and Missouri

I-395 resets between Connecticut and Massachusetts

I-295 resets between Rhode Island and Massachusetts

I-470 resets at the Ohio between Ohio and West Virginia

Totally forgot about I-270 resetting across the Mississippi...Of course, what makes that even weirder...is that I-255/the other part of the STL Beltway does NOT reset when it crosses the Mississippi

The other Multi-State 3DIs I checked (205 OR/WA, 435 MO/KS, 280 IL/IA, 520 GA/SC, 287 NY/NJ, as well as 495 MD/VA and 275 OH/KY/IN) are Continuous

So I guess there is precedent for both Continuous and Resetting
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 11:10:14 PM by ilpt4u »
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sparker

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2018, 02:23:38 AM »

Any word on I-210 replacing SR 210 in SoCal?

Rick

As long as you're at it, ask about I-905 replacing CA 905 -- or about progress extending I-15 south over CA 15 to I-5.  So far, there doesn't seem to be any impetus coming from Caltrans or its individual districts regarding these issues (BTW, CA 15 does meet all Interstate standards down to the I-805 interchange, so signage shouldn't be an issue for the northern 2/3 of that corridor).  They just don't seem to have any enthusiasm for this sort of thing these days.
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mvak36

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2018, 09:42:04 AM »

I-680 resets at the Missouri River between Nebraska and Iowa

I-155 resets at the Mississippi between Tennessee and Missouri

I-395 resets between Connecticut and Massachusetts

I-295 resets between Rhode Island and Massachusetts

I-470 resets at the Ohio between Ohio and West Virginia

Totally forgot about I-270 resetting across the Mississippi...Of course, what makes that even weirder...is that I-255/the other part of the STL Beltway does NOT reset when it crosses the Mississippi

The other Multi-State 3DIs I checked (205 OR/WA, 435 MO/KS, 280 IL/IA, 520 GA/SC, 287 NY/NJ, as well as 495 MD/VA and 275 OH/KY/IN) are Continuous

So I guess there is precedent for both Continuous and Resetting

I had forgotten about 680. Considering that I used to drive it quite a bit.
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paulthemapguy

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2018, 09:46:39 AM »

As long as you're at it, ask about I-905 replacing CA 905 -- or about progress extending I-15 south over CA 15 to I-5.  So far, there doesn't seem to be any impetus coming from Caltrans or its individual districts regarding these issues (BTW, CA 15 does meet all Interstate standards down to the I-805 interchange, so signage shouldn't be an issue for the northern 2/3 of that corridor).  They just don't seem to have any enthusiasm for this sort of thing these days.

I noticed that Google started showing all of CA-15/I-15 as I-15.  I don't know if this has any sort of accuracy or not.
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mvak36

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2018, 12:49:38 PM »

Here's the reply I got from KYTC this morning regarding the I-265 designation.

Quote
Discussions have begun between the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC), the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) and the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) on the possibility of adding KY 841/IN 265 to the interstate highway system. No decision has been made yet.

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sparker

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2018, 03:59:12 PM »

As long as you're at it, ask about I-905 replacing CA 905 -- or about progress extending I-15 south over CA 15 to I-5.  So far, there doesn't seem to be any impetus coming from Caltrans or its individual districts regarding these issues (BTW, CA 15 does meet all Interstate standards down to the I-805 interchange, so signage shouldn't be an issue for the northern 2/3 of that corridor).  They just don't seem to have any enthusiasm for this sort of thing these days.

I noticed that Google started showing all of CA-15/I-15 as I-15.  I don't know if this has any sort of accuracy or not.

None whatsoever at this point.  Officially, I-15 ends at the I-8 junction as it has since its commissioning in 1969, despite the upgrades to Interstate status south of that point.  The stumbling block is some LH ramps at the CA 94 interchange plus some line-of-sight issues in that area -- as well as Caltrans' record of procrastination about such matters.  Again, Google, or the contributors to that database, is jumping the gun -- like with I-11 replacing I-515 in Las Vegas.
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cabiness42

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2018, 04:23:50 PM »

Are Indiana and Kentucky going to apply for the I-265 designation for that new segment they built a couple of years ago? Or are they just planning on leaving it the way it is?

I don't know why you would build a road/bridge connecting two sections of I-265 and then not call it I-265. 
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kphoger

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2018, 07:00:52 PM »

Can you put a US bannered highway on a toll facility outside of special cases like bridges/tunnels?
US 51 is on a toll road by Rockford IL.

Does not fit the criteria described.
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ilpt4u

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2018, 12:49:10 AM »

Can you put a US bannered highway on a toll facility outside of special cases like bridges/tunnels?
US 51 is on a toll road by Rockford IL.

Does not fit the criteria described.
Long time ago, but the Tri-State Tollway (present I-294 and I-94) and East-West/Reagan Tollway (present I-88) in IL were once known as Toll US 41 and Toll US 30, respectively

“Toll” was the banner for the banner route, as US 41 and US 30 were still on their (mostly) non-freeway, and toll free segments (US 41 and freeway portions of Lake Shore Drive aside)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 12:51:20 AM by ilpt4u »
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english si

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Re: AASHTO Fall 2018
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2018, 08:43:16 AM »

Does not fit the criteria described.
Indeed, but it is of relevance. If there's a violation of the principle that US Routes ought to be non-tolled unless there are special circumstances, then there can be a violation of the principle that bannered US routes are likewise to be free roads.
“Toll” was the banner for the banner route, as US 41 and US 30 were still on their (mostly) non-freeway, and toll free segments (US 41 and freeway portions of Lake Shore Drive aside)
I did think of that, but with "Toll" as the banner, it's not quite the same.
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