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Author Topic: Pennsylvania  (Read 296848 times)

74/171FAN

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1425 on: August 27, 2020, 02:06:52 PM »

From PennDOT District 8: Traffic to be Switched to New Ramp from Mount Rose Avenue to I-83 NB in Springettsbury Township, York County

Well the I-83/PA 124 interchange should be completed eventually.

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noelbotevera

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1426 on: September 15, 2020, 06:51:28 PM »

Okay, what is up with PA's numbering system? I swear it was anarchy in the office that day.

So it looks like PA groups routes in similar areas; PA 72 is near its "child" routes PA 272, PA 372, and PA 772...then PA 472 is completely detached from PA 72.

Or even better: PA 14 is in the northern part of the state (Bradford and Tioga counties). PA 114? Oh, just down in the Harrisburg area. PA 214? Near York. PA 914? Why, south of Chambersburg; where else would we put it? PA 414 and PA 514 is the only child to meet or even be near its parent.

Some numbers that look like they're from thin air makes sense (PA 130 is near US 30, PA 819 near US 119) but most are nonsensical (PA 380 in Pittsburgh even though I-80 is nowhere near it).
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 06:55:13 PM by noelbotevera »
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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1427 on: September 15, 2020, 07:19:29 PM »

Okay, what is up with PA's numbering system? I swear it was anarchy in the office that day.

So it looks like PA groups routes in similar areas; PA 72 is near its "child" routes PA 272, PA 372, and PA 772...then PA 472 is completely detached from PA 72.

Or even better: PA 14 is in the northern part of the state (Bradford and Tioga counties). PA 114? Oh, just down in the Harrisburg area. PA 214? Near York. PA 914? Why, south of Chambersburg; where else would we put it? PA 414 and PA 514 is the only child to meet or even be near its parent.

Some numbers that look like they're from thin air makes sense (PA 130 is near US 30, PA 819 near US 119) but most are nonsensical (PA 380 in Pittsburgh even though I-80 is nowhere near it).
Some of these, like the 14s I believe, are based on old numbers that were overlaid by US routes and reassigned.

jemacedo9

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1428 on: September 15, 2020, 08:15:14 PM »

That's because there used to be some sense to all of it. 

1 and 2 digit even numbers were N-S routes, x2s in the east to x8s in the west.
1 and 2 digit odd numbers were E-W routes, x1s in the south to x9s in the north.
All were assigned before the US route numbers were assigned.

3 digit numbers 101-799 were child routes off their parent 1/2 digit numbers
3 digit numbers 801-999 were additional routes off of their parent 1/2 digit numbers in reverse order.  (for example, PA 1 was the Lincoln Highway...and you can see PA 999, PA 997, PA 995, PA 993 still connect.)

Jeff Kitsko's pahighways.com site has a great listing of all the current and former designations.
If you go to penndot.gov and download some of the older maps you can see many of the old alignments as well.

Another example:  PA 72 followed US 222 south of Lancaster city...and there was a PA 172 down in Little Britain.
PA 380 was around before I-380.
PA 286 used to be PA 80 so PA 380 was a child off of it)...but who knows why PA 80 was renumbered but PA 380 was not.  I-380 wasn't that initially, though, it was I-81E. 




« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 08:17:55 PM by jemacedo9 »
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rickmastfan67

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1429 on: September 16, 2020, 01:02:48 AM »

PA 380 was around before I-380.
PA 286 used to be PA 80 so PA 380 was a child off of it)...but who knows why PA 80 was renumbered but PA 380 was not.  I-380 wasn't that initially, though, it was I-81E.

PA-380 did get renumbered, but just not resigned.  It's officially PA-400.

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1430 on: September 16, 2020, 10:39:14 AM »

PA 380 was around before I-380.
PA 286 used to be PA 80 so PA 380 was a child off of it)...but who knows why PA 80 was renumbered but PA 380 was not.  I-380 wasn't that initially, though, it was I-81E.

PA-380 did get renumbered, but just not resigned.  It's officially PA-400.

I think that should read that it's still PA 380, but now designated as SR 400 instead of SR 380. PennDOT did similar SR redesignations for PA 86 (to SR 886) and the northwestern PA 97 (to SR 197), but frankly, just re-sign the traffic routes so everything matches.
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jemacedo9

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1431 on: September 16, 2020, 11:14:29 AM »

PA 380 was around before I-380.
PA 286 used to be PA 80 so PA 380 was a child off of it)...but who knows why PA 80 was renumbered but PA 380 was not.  I-380 wasn't that initially, though, it was I-81E.

PA-380 did get renumbered, but just not resigned.  It's officially PA-400.

I think that should read that it's still PA 380, but now designated as SR 400 instead of SR 380. PennDOT did similar SR redesignations for PA 86 (to SR 886) and the northwestern PA 97 (to SR 197), but frankly, just re-sign the traffic routes so everything matches.

Technically, it is PA Traffic Route 380, designated State Route (SR) 0400.

PA 283 = SR0300 (avoid duplicate with SR0283 which is I-283).
PA 380 = SR0400 (avoid duplicate with SR0380 which is I-380).
PA 86 = SR0886 (avoid duplicate with SR0086 which is I-86).
PA 99 = SR0699 (avoid duplicate with SR0099 which is I-99).
PA 97 = SR0197 (avoid duplicate with SR0097 which is a separate PA 97 in Adams County).

But the two separate PA 29s both are SR0029.

SR 0886 is to avoid duplication with I-86 (SR 0086).

SR 0197 is

In addition to the ones you mentioned, PA 283 is SR 0300, and PA 99 is SR 0699.
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Roadsguy

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1432 on: September 16, 2020, 11:24:52 AM »

PA 380 was around before I-380.
PA 286 used to be PA 80 so PA 380 was a child off of it)...but who knows why PA 80 was renumbered but PA 380 was not.  I-380 wasn't that initially, though, it was I-81E.

PA-380 did get renumbered, but just not resigned.  It's officially PA-400.

I think that should read that it's still PA 380, but now designated as SR 400 instead of SR 380. PennDOT did similar SR redesignations for PA 86 (to SR 886) and the northwestern PA 97 (to SR 197), but frankly, just re-sign the traffic routes so everything matches.

Technically, it is PA Traffic Route 380, designated State Route (SR) 0400.

PA 283 = SR0300 (avoid duplicate with SR0283 which is I-283).
PA 380 = SR0400 (avoid duplicate with SR0380 which is I-380).
PA 86 = SR0886 (avoid duplicate with SR0086 which is I-86).
PA 99 = SR0699 (avoid duplicate with SR0099 which is I-99).
PA 97 = SR0197 (avoid duplicate with SR0097 which is a separate PA 97 in Adams County).

But the two separate PA 29s both are SR0029.

SR 0886 is to avoid duplication with I-86 (SR 0086).

SR 0197 is

In addition to the ones you mentioned, PA 283 is SR 0300, and PA 99 is SR 0699.

Additionally, the former PA 295 in York County was briefly designated SR 0297, which everyone assumed would be all they'd do, but then they went ahead and renumbered the whole route to PA 297 (including some hideous BGS overlays on I-83). I'm surprised that along these lines, they never bothered to renumber PA 86 and 99 to PA 886 and PA 699, respectively.

SR 0197 is probably the exception, not the rule, since both PA 29s are SR 0029 (as you mentioned), and both US 422s are SR 0422.

Technically PA 222 is a duplicate number of US 222, but because it serves as an extension continuing straight from the end of US 222 (unlike I-283/PA 283, which cross each other near their ends), both routes are part of one continuous internal SR 0222 designation. This also makes sense considering that the only reason PA 222 exists is because AASHTO rejected PennDOT's proposal to reextend US 222 into Allentown in the 1980s.
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74/171FAN

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1433 on: September 16, 2020, 11:42:10 AM »

I think the northern segment of PA 29 should be renumbered to PA 7 (there is none) to match NY 7, but that is heading into fictional territory.
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Roadsguy

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1434 on: September 16, 2020, 02:21:49 PM »

I think the northern segment of PA 29 should be renumbered to PA 7 (there is none) to match NY 7, but that is heading into fictional territory.

I've always thought PA 7 should be used for the short piece of road connecting PA 41 to DE 7, but PA 29 definitely deserves the number more. It would require a lot more sign changes and effort to publicize the change, though.
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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1435 on: September 16, 2020, 03:15:22 PM »

PA 380 was around before I-380.
PA 286 used to be PA 80 so PA 380 was a child off of it)...but who knows why PA 80 was renumbered but PA 380 was not.  I-380 wasn't that initially, though, it was I-81E.

PA-380 did get renumbered, but just not resigned.  It's officially PA-400.

I think that should read that it's still PA 380, but now designated as SR 400 instead of SR 380. PennDOT did similar SR redesignations for PA 86 (to SR 886) and the northwestern PA 97 (to SR 197), but frankly, just re-sign the traffic routes so everything matches.

Technically, it is PA Traffic Route 380, designated State Route (SR) 0400.

PA 283 = SR0300 (avoid duplicate with SR0283 which is I-283).
PA 380 = SR0400 (avoid duplicate with SR0380 which is I-380).
PA 86 = SR0886 (avoid duplicate with SR0086 which is I-86).
PA 99 = SR0699 (avoid duplicate with SR0099 which is I-99).
PA 97 = SR0197 (avoid duplicate with SR0097 which is a separate PA 97 in Adams County).

But the two separate PA 29s both are SR0029.
That's because it's really one route that got cleaved, unlike the other cases. I agree with the other poster, I would re-sign all of these to the new numbers. Why not?

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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1436 on: September 24, 2020, 05:09:55 PM »

I’d tend to agree.  Especially the two unrelated PA 97s really bother me.
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Re: Pennsylvania
« Reply #1437 on: September 24, 2020, 05:15:10 PM »

I saw on the local news recently there is apparently talk of building a new interchange on I-83 for PA 921, which is between current exits 24 and 28.  It makes sense because getting to Manchester or Dover from 83 is not exactly direct.
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74/171FAN

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« Last Edit: Today at 03:46:11 PM by 74/171FAN »
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