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Author Topic: Virginia plans to toll I-81  (Read 13736 times)

sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #275 on: January 29, 2019, 06:44:22 PM »

For the most part, nothing will change with the exception of higher shipping costs due to $55 tolls.
Um, no.  The proposed truck toll is 10 cents per mile, so that would be $33.  Much less than your figure.
You might want to check your facts. The initial truck toll rate is 17 cents per mile, and cars is 11 cents per mile. $55 for trucks, $36 for cars.  That initial toll rate will also eventually increase as years progress...

The exact figure has not been determined yet.  The proposed numbers presented at the monthly CTB meeting (I was there) two weeks ago were 7 cents per mile for cars and 10 cents per mile for large trucks.  For the entire 325 miles that would be $22 and $33 rounded respectively.   The annual pass for corridor residents may be as low as $25.
From what I've seen everywhere else, the figure was 17 cents per mile for trucks, and 11 cents for cars. I've never heard anything about 7 cents for cars, and 10 cents for trucks. Do you have a link to the monthly meeting documents online?
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #276 on: January 29, 2019, 06:50:57 PM »

The exact figure has not been determined yet.  The proposed numbers presented at the monthly CTB meeting (I was there) two weeks ago were 7 cents per mile for cars and 10 cents per mile for large trucks.  For the entire 325 miles that would be $22 and $33 rounded respectively.   The annual pass for corridor residents may be as low as $25.
From what I've seen everywhere else, the figure was 17 cents per mile for trucks, and 11 cents for cars. I've never heard anything about 7 cents for cars, and 10 cents for trucks. Do you have a link to the monthly meeting documents online?

Newspapers often have a difficult time with getting the data correct on many subjects, including highways.  The monthly meeting documents are on the CTB website, but they don't list the toll rates, I checked them before I posted. 
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #277 on: January 29, 2019, 09:02:55 PM »

Are there any figures available on gas tax revenues collected by county? Even though "all the people" are in NoVA, Richmond and Hampton Roads, do those areas generate a percentage of gas tax revenues anywhere near their percentage of the population? I'd say not, because commute distances are probably shorter, and lots of people use public transportation.

I'm not finding any, but let's approach this issue a slightly different way.

New Jersey, a state dominated by urban and suburban areas which is the most densely populated in the union, collected $535,550,000 in gas tax revenues in 2015 (source) with a 14.5 cent/gallon tax and a population of 8.96 million. This maths out to about 412 gallons of gas purchased per resident.

Wyoming, a very rural state which is the least populous in the union, collected $118,639,000 in gas tax revenues in 2015 (same source as NJ) with a 24 cent/gallon tax and a population of 582,102. This maths out to about 849 gallons of gas purchased per resident.

So yes, at a glance it would appear that the per capita contribution of rural areas to gas taxes is greater than that of urban areas, potentially by a factor of about 2. This is likely explained both by the greater distances needed to travel in rural areas and the greater tendency of people in rural areas to drive larger vehicles that are less efficient.

The variable this is not controlling for is the fact that a state with a low population that's spanned by a major transcontinental corridor is likely going to sell a greater percentage of its gas to people from out of state than a small, densely populated state is. And this would hold true on a smaller scale too - any gas station located off of I-81 in VA is going to sell more gas to non-locals than a gas station in Arlington is. The source of the revenue will not always match the contributor's residence.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 09:05:41 PM by Duke87 »
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VTGoose

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #278 on: February 01, 2019, 09:00:49 AM »

And as expected in an election year, the Virginia General Assembly is "kicking the can down the road" on fixing I-81. Tolls and taxes are pretty much dead and yet another committee is going to study the problem interstate.

Quote
Legislation that once called for installing tolls along Interstate 81 has warped into a study to produce funding for safety and congestion fixes."

Del. Steve Landes, R-Augusta, and Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Rockingham, pitched revised bills to separate General Assembly panels on Thursday that would establish the Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund. Landes’ HB 2718 and Obenshain’s SB 1716 also would create a committee focused on fixing the 325-mile highway.

The Interstate 81 Committee would be composed of 15 people under Landes’ bill, while Obenshain’s bill includes an additional person. Members would be lawmakers along I-81’s corridor as well as representatives from planning districts.

The bills do not specify a funding source, which will be determined later. Landes says all options are on the table.

The fund would collect revenues and apply them toward I-81 improvements. The legislation specifies that the money would be used on $2.2 billion of identified projects that have been endorsed by the Commonwealth Transportation Board.

Under the revised bills from the lawmakers, the new committee would study various funding sources and receive public comment throughout this year. By Dec. 15, it will provide an update, including a funding proposal, to the General Assembly.

https://www.roanoke.com/news/local/revised-legislation-on-fixing-i--doesn-t-include-tolls/article_165dec7e-de34-53dd-baeb-cad26358f1c3.html

At various hearings and in newspapers around the region, lots of people have said they want to see improvements to the road but they want someone else to pay for them. Given that the entire General Assembly is up for election in November, the December report date makes political sense -- incumbents who want to keep their seat can claim they are working on fixing the problem while at the same time touting how they have toed the line against more taxes. Weasels, all of them!

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #279 on: February 01, 2019, 02:17:26 PM »

Here is the entire list of Virginia Assembly bills related to transportation.  Up through slide 6 is about the I-81 toll proposal and the remainder is the list of other bills out there...

http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/jan/pres/8_legislative_update.pdf
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #280 on: February 01, 2019, 11:44:18 PM »

And as expected in an election year, the Virginia General Assembly is "kicking the can down the road" on fixing I-81. Tolls and taxes are pretty much dead and yet another committee is going to study the problem interstate.

Quote
Legislation that once called for installing tolls along Interstate 81 has warped into a study to produce funding for safety and congestion fixes."

Del. Steve Landes, R-Augusta, and Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Rockingham, pitched revised bills to separate General Assembly panels on Thursday that would establish the Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund. Landes’ HB 2718 and Obenshain’s SB 1716 also would create a committee focused on fixing the 325-mile highway.

The Interstate 81 Committee would be composed of 15 people under Landes’ bill, while Obenshain’s bill includes an additional person. Members would be lawmakers along I-81’s corridor as well as representatives from planning districts.

The bills do not specify a funding source, which will be determined later. Landes says all options are on the table.

The fund would collect revenues and apply them toward I-81 improvements. The legislation specifies that the money would be used on $2.2 billion of identified projects that have been endorsed by the Commonwealth Transportation Board.

Under the revised bills from the lawmakers, the new committee would study various funding sources and receive public comment throughout this year. By Dec. 15, it will provide an update, including a funding proposal, to the General Assembly.

https://www.roanoke.com/news/local/revised-legislation-on-fixing-i--doesn-t-include-tolls/article_165dec7e-de34-53dd-baeb-cad26358f1c3.html

At various hearings and in newspapers around the region, lots of people have said they want to see improvements to the road but they want someone else to pay for them. Given that the entire General Assembly is up for election in November, the December report date makes political sense -- incumbents who want to keep their seat can claim they are working on fixing the problem while at the same time touting how they have toed the line against more taxes. Weasels, all of them!

This, combined with the fact that the current governor's career is pretty much on life support, suggests that the tolling plan is dead.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #281 on: February 01, 2019, 11:51:12 PM »

And as expected in an election year, the Virginia General Assembly is "kicking the can down the road" on fixing I-81. Tolls and taxes are pretty much dead and yet another committee is going to study the problem interstate.

Quote
Legislation that once called for installing tolls along Interstate 81 has warped into a study to produce funding for safety and congestion fixes."

Del. Steve Landes, R-Augusta, and Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Rockingham, pitched revised bills to separate General Assembly panels on Thursday that would establish the Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund. Landes’ HB 2718 and Obenshain’s SB 1716 also would create a committee focused on fixing the 325-mile highway.

The Interstate 81 Committee would be composed of 15 people under Landes’ bill, while Obenshain’s bill includes an additional person. Members would be lawmakers along I-81’s corridor as well as representatives from planning districts.

The bills do not specify a funding source, which will be determined later. Landes says all options are on the table.

The fund would collect revenues and apply them toward I-81 improvements. The legislation specifies that the money would be used on $2.2 billion of identified projects that have been endorsed by the Commonwealth Transportation Board.

Under the revised bills from the lawmakers, the new committee would study various funding sources and receive public comment throughout this year. By Dec. 15, it will provide an update, including a funding proposal, to the General Assembly.

https://www.roanoke.com/news/local/revised-legislation-on-fixing-i--doesn-t-include-tolls/article_165dec7e-de34-53dd-baeb-cad26358f1c3.html

At various hearings and in newspapers around the region, lots of people have said they want to see improvements to the road but they want someone else to pay for them. Given that the entire General Assembly is up for election in November, the December report date makes political sense -- incumbents who want to keep their seat can claim they are working on fixing the problem while at the same time touting how they have toed the line against more taxes. Weasels, all of them!

This, combined with the fact that the current governor's career is pretty much on life support, suggests that the tolling plan is dead.
Likely. I had somewhat of a feeling this wasn't going anywhere.

Well, the highway will continue performing good at most times throughout the day. Nothing better I can say if the tolling plan is dead.
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LM117

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #282 on: February 02, 2019, 09:58:41 AM »

This, combined with the fact that the current governor's career is pretty much on life support, suggests that the tolling plan is dead.

I’m sure Ed Gillespie is smiling right now...
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #283 on: February 10, 2019, 11:02:32 AM »

This is my first time hearing about this. WTF.
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Thing 342

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #284 on: February 11, 2019, 11:42:41 AM »

This is my first time hearing about this. WTF.

I wouldn't sweat it, given the reasons above.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #285 on: February 11, 2019, 11:50:23 AM »

This is my first time hearing about this. WTF.

I wouldn't sweat it, given the reasons above.

Agree, the state of the Commonwealth, they'll be looking for a new Lt. Gov pretty soon and the Gov and the AG could be next, priority for the House of Delegates to pass I-81 tolling legislation has fallen on to the back burner. :popcorn:
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #286 on: February 11, 2019, 01:54:20 PM »

The I-81 tolling legislation has already failed for this year regardless of the other distractions.
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Jmiles32

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #287 on: March 28, 2019, 06:14:20 PM »

One more last-ditch effort to do something about I-81 this year. No tolls involved this time likely indicating that yes, that idea is dead.
https://www.roanoke.com/news/politics/general_assembly/northam-with-i--in-salem-as-backdrop-pushes-for/article_8b960cb0-165b-5202-b458-f32ca926f5cd.html
Quote
Northam is proposing an increase in tractor-trailer registration fees to begin later this year. He also wants to increase the diesel tax to 2.03 percent of the statewide average wholesale price per gallon, which would begin in July 2021. The revenue generated would be distributed to projects statewide.

Also, in the localities that line the I-81 corridor, the regular gas and diesel tax paid would go up, with a 2.1 percent wholesale tax added. That revenue would go directly for I-81.

Transportation Secretary Shannon Valentine estimates this would generate about $150 million a year for I-81. It's just a fraction of the $4 billion of road needs that the Virginia Department of Transportation identified last year.

The General Assembly will convene Wednesday to take up these amendments along with proposed changes to legislation and vetoes. Republicans command a slim majority in the House of Delegates and Senate, and a majority is required to pass the amendments.

Northam is amending legislation from Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Rockingham, and Del. Steve Landes, R-Augusta, which traveled sharp turns throughout the six-week legislative session and passed the General Assembly without any way to raise money.

Those bills first started with putting tolls on I-81, charging 17 cents per mile for trucks and 11 cents per mile for other drivers. Car drivers — but not truckers — could purchase a $30 annual pass. Neither Obenshain nor Landes attended the event Thursday.

Instead, those bills landed on the governor's desk with the purpose of establishing the Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund and creating a committee focused on fixing the highway. The committee — made up of state legislators and local officials — will hold public meetings throughout this year and report an update to the General Assembly in December.

Valentine said those elements of the legislation are important "but not impactful without the funding."

Separately, Sen. John Edwards, D-Roanoke, put in a bill that would have increased the wholesale motor fuel tax for the whole state.

The legislation pitted lawmakers from the regions across Virginia against one another. Northern Virginia lawmakers expressed discontent over the idea that tolls would be much lower along I-81 than its own highways. Even along the I-81 corridor, legislators on the southern end said it was unfair for them to pay tolls when their road projects were valued at less than repairs along the rest of the highway.

"We have built our transportation funding structures with different rules of the road," said Sen. Jeremy McPike, D-Prince William, who was not a fan of the tolling plan.

So the legislation stalled — much like the tractor-trailer on the side of the highway yards away from Northam. Lawmakers removed the funding mechanisms from the final legislation and inserted a request for studies on highway funding.

The amendments Northam proposed should be of some satisfaction to lawmakers in Northern Virginia. Some of the money raised through the registration fees and statewide diesel tax will go to the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority. This would restore funding the region lost last year as part of a funding agreement to provide dedicated funding for the Metro system by pulling money from regional transportation projects.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #288 on: March 28, 2019, 06:17:38 PM »

One more last-ditch effort to do something about I-81 this year. No tolls involved this time likely indicating that yes, that idea is dead.
https://www.roanoke.com/news/politics/general_assembly/northam-with-i--in-salem-as-backdrop-pushes-for/article_8b960cb0-165b-5202-b458-f32ca926f5cd.html
Quote
Northam is proposing an increase in tractor-trailer registration fees to begin later this year. He also wants to increase the diesel tax to 2.03 percent of the statewide average wholesale price per gallon, which would begin in July 2021. The revenue generated would be distributed to projects statewide.

Also, in the localities that line the I-81 corridor, the regular gas and diesel tax paid would go up, with a 2.1 percent wholesale tax added. That revenue would go directly for I-81.

Transportation Secretary Shannon Valentine estimates this would generate about $150 million a year for I-81. It's just a fraction of the $4 billion of road needs that the Virginia Department of Transportation identified last year.

The General Assembly will convene Wednesday to take up these amendments along with proposed changes to legislation and vetoes. Republicans command a slim majority in the House of Delegates and Senate, and a majority is required to pass the amendments.

Northam is amending legislation from Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Rockingham, and Del. Steve Landes, R-Augusta, which traveled sharp turns throughout the six-week legislative session and passed the General Assembly without any way to raise money.

Those bills first started with putting tolls on I-81, charging 17 cents per mile for trucks and 11 cents per mile for other drivers. Car drivers — but not truckers — could purchase a $30 annual pass. Neither Obenshain nor Landes attended the event Thursday.

Instead, those bills landed on the governor's desk with the purpose of establishing the Interstate 81 Corridor Improvement Fund and creating a committee focused on fixing the highway. The committee — made up of state legislators and local officials — will hold public meetings throughout this year and report an update to the General Assembly in December.

Valentine said those elements of the legislation are important "but not impactful without the funding."

Separately, Sen. John Edwards, D-Roanoke, put in a bill that would have increased the wholesale motor fuel tax for the whole state.

The legislation pitted lawmakers from the regions across Virginia against one another. Northern Virginia lawmakers expressed discontent over the idea that tolls would be much lower along I-81 than its own highways. Even along the I-81 corridor, legislators on the southern end said it was unfair for them to pay tolls when their road projects were valued at less than repairs along the rest of the highway.

"We have built our transportation funding structures with different rules of the road," said Sen. Jeremy McPike, D-Prince William, who was not a fan of the tolling plan.

So the legislation stalled — much like the tractor-trailer on the side of the highway yards away from Northam. Lawmakers removed the funding mechanisms from the final legislation and inserted a request for studies on highway funding.

The amendments Northam proposed should be of some satisfaction to lawmakers in Northern Virginia. Some of the money raised through the registration fees and statewide diesel tax will go to the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority. This would restore funding the region lost last year as part of a funding agreement to provide dedicated funding for the Metro system by pulling money from regional transportation projects.
I say go for it. If increasing the taxes can get some of these much needed road projects completed without tolling, I think it would be more popular.
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Jmiles32

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #289 on: March 28, 2019, 06:28:58 PM »

I say go for it. If increasing the taxes can get some of these much needed road projects completed without tolling, I think it would be more popular.

Agreed. Probably not a sufficient long term funding plan obviously, but at least it allows for the very worst parts of the interstate to get improvements(although at this point it's more like bandaids). Also in another article, under the plan, I-81 would receive $151 million, I-95 would receive $40 million, I-64 would receive $28 million, the NVTA would receive $20 million and $43 million would be reserved for investment in other interstates annually. Definitely can get behind that.
https://wcyb.com/news/virginia-news/gov-northam-announces-2-billion-i-81-improvement-plan-footed-by-truck-drivers-motorists
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #290 on: March 28, 2019, 08:44:37 PM »

The amendments Northam proposed should be of some satisfaction to lawmakers in Northern Virginia. Some of the money raised through the registration fees and statewide diesel tax will go to the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority. This would restore funding the region lost last year as part of a funding agreement to provide dedicated funding for the Metro system by pulling money from regional transportation projects.
I say go for it. If increasing the taxes can get some of these much needed road projects completed without tolling, I think it would be more popular.

We'll have to see if Governor Northam can get the General Assembly to approve these increases, and then see how much funding is actually available for I-81 improvements.  It would certainly help if more funding can be found for these projects.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 09:13:23 PM by Alps »
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #291 on: March 28, 2019, 08:54:57 PM »

The amendments Northam proposed should be of some satisfaction to lawmakers in Northern Virginia. Some of the money raised through the registration fees and statewide diesel tax will go to the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority. This would restore funding the region lost last year as part of a funding agreement to provide dedicated funding for the Metro system by pulling money from regional transportation projects.
I say go for it. If increasing the taxes can get some of these much needed road projects completed without tolling, I think it would be more popular.

We'll have to see if Governor Northam can get the General Assembly to approve these increases, and then see how much funding is actually available for I-81 improvements.  It would certainly help if more funding can be found for these projects.
If this indeed were to pass, and $150 million was available to I-81 exclusively annually, couldn't the entire project be constructed as one, and operated like a toll road with bonds and loans, but instead of tolls, that $150 million tax money annually is used instead?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 09:13:49 PM by Alps »
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Alps

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #292 on: March 28, 2019, 09:32:32 PM »

NO POLITICS

Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #293 on: March 28, 2019, 09:33:18 PM »

If this indeed were to pass, and $150 million was available to I-81 exclusively annually, couldn't the entire project be constructed as one, and operated like a toll road with bonds and loans, but instead of tolls, that $150 million tax money annually is used instead?
A lot of people in Virginia call him Governor Blackface.  I see that Alps edited our posts.  PFTC.
I agree... but about the question I asked...
He shouldn't be defended for what he did... I say call him Blackface... but now this is getting political.

If $1.5 billion could be channeled over 10 years then I suppose those annual increments could be utilized to service a revenue bond issue of $1 billion (or whatever per the amortization schedule).
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #294 on: March 28, 2019, 09:38:28 PM »

If this indeed were to pass, and $150 million was available to I-81 exclusively annually, couldn't the entire project be constructed as one, and operated like a toll road with bonds and loans, but instead of tolls, that $150 million tax money annually is used instead?
A lot of people in Virginia call him Governor Blackface.  I see that Alps edited our posts.  PFTC.
I agree... but about the question I asked...
He shouldn't be defended for what he did... I say call him Blackface... but now this is getting political.

If $1.5 billion could be channeled over 10 years then I suppose those annual increments could be utilized to service a revenue bond issue of $1 billion (or whatever per the amortization schedule).
If these tax increases got passed, and indeed $150 million per year was allocated to I-81, I'd say go ahead with it, get the expansions completed in one project, and pay it off over the years. It could also be used with an 6-lane expansion thru-out. Without any toll collection.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #295 on: March 28, 2019, 09:39:06 PM »

NO POLITICS
Is the caps necessary?
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #296 on: March 28, 2019, 09:41:04 PM »

NO POLITICS
Is the caps necessary?

Probably not …  but the purple is! 

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #297 on: March 28, 2019, 09:44:08 PM »

NO POLITICS
Is the caps necessary?

Probably not …  but the purple is! 

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VTGoose

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #298 on: March 29, 2019, 09:01:24 AM »

We'll have to see if Governor Northam can get the General Assembly to approve these increases, and then see how much funding is actually available for I-81 improvements.  It would certainly help if more funding can be found for these projects.

The plan spreads money all across the state instead of other plans that just covered funding for I-81. It will be interesting to see if members of the General Assembly go for the plan (which raises taxes) or if some stick to ideology and have an eye on upcoming elections and back away from voting for it.

The toll plan got heavy opposition lobbying from the trucking industry. At least this time around there is some support. From the Roanoke Times article:

     Dale Bennett, president and CEO of the Virginia Trucking Association, said he was supportive of all the amendments.

     “Under this plan, the trucking industry is stepping up to the plate to pay a large share of cost of improving I-81 and other interstates in Virginia,” he said.

Even if this is approved and just carries over for one year until replaced with something else, it is a better start than where it was left at the end of the General Assembly with yet another study and report on the problems.
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hbelkins

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    • Millennium Highway
Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #299 on: March 29, 2019, 03:31:23 PM »

The amendments Northam proposed should be of some satisfaction to lawmakers in Northern Virginia. Some of the money raised through the registration fees and statewide diesel tax will go to the Northern Virginia Transportation Authority. This would restore funding the region lost last year as part of a funding agreement to provide dedicated funding for the Metro system by pulling money from regional transportation projects.
I say go for it. If increasing the taxes can get some of these much needed road projects completed without tolling, I think it would be more popular.

We'll have to see if Governor Northam can get the General Assembly to approve these increases, and then see how much funding is actually available for I-81 improvements.  It would certainly help if more funding can be found for these projects.

Does Northam have any political capital to get anything done? He's faded out of the national news, but I'd think that anything that's going to happen in Virginia in terms of revenue would have to originate in the legislature, given the headlines of a few weeks ago. The initiative proposed by some of the I-81 corridor legislators seems to be dead.
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