AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: I-505  (Read 818 times)

Max Rockatansky

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 8755
  • Location: Route 9, Sector 26
  • Last Login: Today at 12:39:27 AM
    • Sure, Why Not? (Highway Blog Spot)
I-505
« on: February 24, 2019, 11:08:34 PM »

Drove a portion of I-505 north from I-80 to CA 128/CR E6 on a recent day trip.  While I-505 is probably one of the straightest freeways in California it does have an interesting aspect to it given it was meant to be part of I-5W.  What I find interesting is that I-5W was actually signed in places (hence the thread started by Daniel) but probably would have remained had the 1964 Highway renumbering specifically eliminated suffixed routes.

https://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2019/02/interstate-505-trace-of-interstate-5w.html

My photo set for I-505 can be found below:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmyetxgF

gonealookin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 272
  • Location: Lake Tahoe - NV side
  • Last Login: June 12, 2019, 07:23:34 PM
Re: I-505
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 07:54:11 AM »

Aside from the I-5W history, the interesting thing for me is that the interchanges at CA 16 and CA 128 were built so far in advance of any other part of the freeway.  It must have been odd in the 1960s to be driving along what amounted to a farm road, suddenly encounter a freeway interchange and then immediately be returned to the farm road.  You can get the idea by looking at the historic aerials, although the oldest one I can find is from 1968.  I believe the bridges at CA 16 and CA 128 are dated 1959.
Logged

nexus73

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1667
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Coos Bay OR
  • Last Login: June 16, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
Re: I-505
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 12:14:26 PM »

Aside from the I-5W history, the interesting thing for me is that the interchanges at CA 16 and CA 128 were built so far in advance of any other part of the freeway.  It must have been odd in the 1960s to be driving along what amounted to a farm road, suddenly encounter a freeway interchange and then immediately be returned to the farm road.  You can get the idea by looking at the historic aerials, although the oldest one I can find is from 1968.  I believe the bridges at CA 16 and CA 128 are dated 1959.

Where I-15 and I-215 meet in SoCal, the same situation was seen by me back in the mid Seventies.  Back then it was US 395 AKA I-15E for the current I-215 with the current I-15 having a state route number I do not remember.  You would be driving along a 2-lane highway and suddenly there are 3 lanes in each direction, a major interchange after that, another short stretch of modern freeway and then ~poof~, it was gone and back on old two lane blacktop you went!

Rick
Logged
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willets CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

TheStranger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3610
  • Last Login: Today at 04:18:47 AM
Re: I-505
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2019, 02:02:20 PM »

Aside from the I-5W history, the interesting thing for me is that the interchanges at CA 16 and CA 128 were built so far in advance of any other part of the freeway.  It must have been odd in the 1960s to be driving along what amounted to a farm road, suddenly encounter a freeway interchange and then immediately be returned to the farm road.  You can get the idea by looking at the historic aerials, although the oldest one I can find is from 1968.  I believe the bridges at CA 16 and CA 128 are dated 1959.

Where I-15 and I-215 meet in SoCal, the same situation was seen by me back in the mid Seventies.  Back then it was US 395 AKA I-15E for the current I-215 with the current I-15 having a state route number I do not remember.  You would be driving along a 2-lane highway and suddenly there are 3 lanes in each direction, a major interchange after that, another short stretch of modern freeway and then ~poof~, it was gone and back on old two lane blacktop you went!

Rick

The portion of modern I-15 north of Route 91 and south of I-10 replaced the post-1964 parallel surface street Route 31 (which was along Miliken and Hamner Avenues); south of 91, I-15 supplanted the southern segment of Route 71.

I-15 north of I-10 to US 395 (today's I-215/former I-15 and I-15E) was part of the proposed extent of Route 31 but if I'm not mistaken was built entirely as I-15.

An interesting side note to all this: I-15E is the only suffixed route in California that was designated post-1964, I think the history of it actually has been discussed by Sparker in another thread here (created ca. 1974 after 15 was moved off 395 and onto the 31/71 corridor, in part because Riverside and San Bernardino wanted to remain on a 2 digit interstate routing, but supplanted by I-215 in 1982).

By the 1990s maps showed former US 395 south of Route 60 as State Route 215, a four-lane divided expressway; midway through that decade that freeway gap was closed and I-215 was complete freeway from Temecula to Devore as it is now.
Logged
Chris Sampang

sparker

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 5601
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
  • Last Login: Today at 04:27:06 AM
Re: I-505
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2019, 02:47:12 PM »

Aside from the I-5W history, the interesting thing for me is that the interchanges at CA 16 and CA 128 were built so far in advance of any other part of the freeway.  It must have been odd in the 1960s to be driving along what amounted to a farm road, suddenly encounter a freeway interchange and then immediately be returned to the farm road.  You can get the idea by looking at the historic aerials, although the oldest one I can find is from 1968.  I believe the bridges at CA 16 and CA 128 are dated 1959.

Where I-15 and I-215 meet in SoCal, the same situation was seen by me back in the mid Seventies.  Back then it was US 395 AKA I-15E for the current I-215 with the current I-15 having a state route number I do not remember.  You would be driving along a 2-lane highway and suddenly there are 3 lanes in each direction, a major interchange after that, another short stretch of modern freeway and then ~poof~, it was gone and back on old two lane blacktop you went!

Rick

The portion of modern I-15 north of Route 91 and south of I-10 replaced the post-1964 parallel surface street Route 31 (which was along Miliken and Hamner Avenues); south of 91, I-15 supplanted the southern segment of Route 71.

I-15 north of I-10 to US 395 (today's I-215/former I-15 and I-15E) was part of the proposed extent of Route 31 but if I'm not mistaken was built entirely as I-15.

An interesting side note to all this: I-15E is the only suffixed route in California that was designated post-1964, I think the history of it actually has been discussed by Sparker in another thread here (created ca. 1974 after 15 was moved off 395 and onto the 31/71 corridor, in part because Riverside and San Bernardino wanted to remain on a 2 digit interstate routing, but supplanted by I-215 in 1982).

By the 1990s maps showed former US 395 south of Route 60 as State Route 215, a four-lane divided expressway; midway through that decade that freeway gap was closed and I-215 was complete freeway from Temecula to Devore as it is now.

The I-15E designation for what was previously US 395 happened in 1972 with signage placed from the Devore interchange south to I-10 by the spring of 1973 and south through Riverside to the present I-215/CA 60 split in Moreno Valley by the following year (yes, the SB mainline, like I-215 for many decades afterward, schlepped around that 25mph single-lane cloverleaf loop in central Riverside).  Sporadic "Temporary I-15E" signs could be seen on the 4-lane expressway section from CA 60 south to the freeway section around Perris, but were relatively rare on the 2-lane section south to the (then) CA 71 split at Murietta.  US 395 signage remained on that section until after the numbering change to 215 in 1982.  Since the 15E suffixed route was added a few years prior to the AASHTO dictum calling for the elimination of such designations, it really wasn't considered much of an anomaly back then.  And at that time what was to eventually be I-215 was legislatively designated as a "hidden" CA 194, replacing a long-deleted legislative route;  in 1982, 194 was simply changed to 215.  The final significant freeway gap, along the Perris-Moreno Valley expressway, was completed by 1995; the sole at-grade intersection near Sun City was upgraded a year or two later. 

Re the early interchanges on I-505:  That was part of a 1957-58 project that relocated the section of then-LRN 90 about a half-mile east of its original route that followed the SP Rumsey branch line that extended north of Vacaville to Madison before turning west along SSR/CA 16 to Rumsey (the Cache Creek valley was noted for hop production).  The relocation extended between south of Winters and north of Madison and included segments angling back to the original alignment.  It was constructed as a 2-lane expressway, with short 4-lane freeway segments through the SSR 16 and SSR 128 interchanges.  Nevertheless, there were no I-5W shields erected on that portion of the route; signage simply indicated "Redding" for NB and "San Francisco" for SB.  The sole I-5W reassurance shields and BGS's occurred on the initial section of the US 50/"MacArthur" freeway in Emeryville and Oakland east from the Bay Bridge distribution structure to Grand Ave. near Piedmont; deployed in 1962, they were replaced by I-580 shields by mid-1964.   
Logged

nexus73

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1667
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Coos Bay OR
  • Last Login: June 16, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
Re: I-505
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 03:01:22 PM »

Thank you to TheStranger and Sparker for the history of I-15E.  When I was stationed at March AFB in the mid Seventies, the route was in such a state of flux.  Expressway, freeway, 2-lane highway, two different numbers.  At least development was not anywhere what it is now along I-215 and I-15 south of the southern interchange of these two current freeways. 

If you want to see what Temecula looked like in 1966, watch the first episode of "The Invaders".  As the show draws to an end you can see the road leading from what was a tiny community out to US 395. 

Menifee.  Now a large city, it was just a tiny dot on the map for so long.  Lake Elsinore also grew up considerably but the original downtown stands as a time capsule to a previous era.  Sunnymead and Edgemont were spread out towns that later became the city of Moreno Valley.  That name did go to the high school there when I was stationed at March AFB.  Boy did they have a lousy football team then.  Today it is one that has sent players on to major college ranks. 

No longer there: Riverside Raceway.  I have yet to see the Moreno Valley Mall which was built in that area.

Still old: the easternmost stretch of SR 60 as it approaches Beaumont.  Somewhere I read that the section of expressway was to be upgraded to freeway. Does anyone know about this?

So many changes!

Rick
Logged
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willets CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

skluth

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 716
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Palm Springs, CA
  • Last Login: June 16, 2019, 11:25:23 PM
Re: I-505
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2019, 07:24:16 PM »

Thank you to TheStranger and Sparker for the history of I-15E.  When I was stationed at March AFB in the mid Seventies, the route was in such a state of flux.  Expressway, freeway, 2-lane highway, two different numbers.  At least development was not anywhere what it is now along I-215 and I-15 south of the southern interchange of these two current freeways. 

If you want to see what Temecula looked like in 1966, watch the first episode of "The Invaders".  As the show draws to an end you can see the road leading from what was a tiny community out to US 395. 

Menifee.  Now a large city, it was just a tiny dot on the map for so long.  Lake Elsinore also grew up considerably but the original downtown stands as a time capsule to a previous era.  Sunnymead and Edgemont were spread out towns that later became the city of Moreno Valley.  That name did go to the high school there when I was stationed at March AFB.  Boy did they have a lousy football team then.  Today it is one that has sent players on to major college ranks. 

No longer there: Riverside Raceway.  I have yet to see the Moreno Valley Mall which was built in that area.

Still old: the easternmost stretch of SR 60 as it approaches Beaumont.  Somewhere I read that the section of expressway was to be upgraded to freeway. Does anyone know about this?

So many changes!

Rick

Watching old TV shows and movies is one of the best ways to see the old architecture and highways in SoCal because so many were made here, especially up through the 1960s. George Pal's War of the Worlds movie shows how the area around Corona used to look back in the early 50s (much of the movie was filmed there). It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World starts with the twisting CA 74 downhill into Palm Desert and has several scenes very representative of the mid-60s. TV shows like the Beverly Hillbillies and Bewitched also show a lot of what the 60s looked like. They're all snapshots and show a (literally) whitewashed view of society, but what you see is still useful and fun.
Logged

bing101

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2630
  • Last Login: June 14, 2019, 11:45:53 PM
Re: I-505
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2019, 09:32:58 PM »

The South end of I-505 has some development though in Vacaville from a former farming town to now an exburb of both Sacramento and San Francisco. I seen some new housing developments and the Sacramento branch of Genentech is in Vacaville near I-505. I-505 might need to be widened in the next 20-40 years though given that its south end is starting to be built due to Access to nearby UC Davis Campus and to Travis AFB plus Bay Area and Sacramento commuters in the area though.
Logged

bing101

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2630
  • Last Login: June 14, 2019, 11:45:53 PM
Re: I-505
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 01:11:01 PM »

Drove a portion of I-505 north from I-80 to CA 128/CR E6 on a recent day trip.  While I-505 is probably one of the straightest freeways in California it does have an interesting aspect to it given it was meant to be part of I-5W.  What I find interesting is that I-5W was actually signed in places (hence the thread started by Daniel) but probably would have remained had the 1964 Highway renumbering specifically eliminated suffixed routes.

https://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2019/02/interstate-505-trace-of-interstate-5w.html

My photo set for I-505 can be found below:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmyetxgF

I-505 is best known for Truck Traffic from the Bay Area trying to go to Oregon and avoid Downtown Sacramento traffic. I know some warehouses are near the I-505 @ I-80 interchange.
Logged

The Ghostbuster

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2169
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Madison, WI
  • Last Login: June 15, 2019, 04:25:06 PM
Re: I-505
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 05:16:38 PM »

Wasn't there once a proposal for a highway to link Interstate 505 with Interstate 580? I can't remember what it was called, but I believe it was proposed as a toll road.
Logged

The Ghostbuster

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2169
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Madison, WI
  • Last Login: June 15, 2019, 04:25:06 PM
Re: I-505
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2019, 05:19:43 PM »

I just checked Wikipedia, and can answer my own question. It was called the Mid-State Tollway, and it was canceled in 2001, due to opposition.
Logged

sparker

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 5601
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
  • Last Login: Today at 04:27:06 AM
Re: I-505
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2019, 12:58:08 AM »

I just checked Wikipedia, and can answer my own question. It was called the Mid-State Tollway, and it was canceled in 2001, due to opposition.

And cost; it would have required twinning of the Antioch Bridge and a 2nd high-level crossing of the Sacramento River several miles north.  Ironically, much of the proposed alignment of the western Mid-State "branch" follows what has been suggested for a CA 84 extension north to CA 4 near Brentwood; the south(west) terminus of that branch was to have been the present 84/680 interchange at Sunol; the eastern branch would have tracked the proposed CA 239 alignment, terminating at the I-580/I-205 Altamont interchange.  IIRC, the branches came together slightly south of the present CA 4/Vasco Road intersection between Brentwood and Discovery Bay and utilized CA 4 as a "free" connector between that point and the Antioch Bridge, where the tolled section would have resumed north toward Vacaville and Davis.  Again, the facility was planned to split into two branches to separate termini -- one on I-505 just north of Vacaville and the other at the I-80/CA 113 (north) freeway interchange near Davis.   Planning for this commenced circa 1991-92; included in the concept was a cable-stayed 4-lane bridge over the Sacramento River directly north of the present Antioch Bridge.  Opponents included a large contingent of tomato farmers in the Dixon-Elmira area, which the facility would have bisected, the Alameda County planning department and the county board of supervisors, and UC Davis.  Studies persisted for about 5 years and were shelved circa 1998; funding for the planning efforts were withdrawn in late 2001 as cited in the previous post.     
Logged

MrAndy1369

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 34
  • Last Login: March 29, 2019, 12:47:23 AM
Re: I-505
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2019, 10:31:44 PM »

Aside from the I-5W history, the interesting thing for me is that the interchanges at CA 16 and CA 128 were built so far in advance of any other part of the freeway.  It must have been odd in the 1960s to be driving along what amounted to a farm road, suddenly encounter a freeway interchange and then immediately be returned to the farm road.  You can get the idea by looking at the historic aerials, although the oldest one I can find is from 1968.  I believe the bridges at CA 16 and CA 128 are dated 1959.

Agreed! I wonder if the "End freeway" and "Begin freeway" signs were erected back then, and/or if there was an "End Freeway 1/2 Mile" sign.

Also, what was I-505 signed as before it became a full interstate? CA-505, or something else?
Logged

sparker

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 5601
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
  • Last Login: Today at 04:27:06 AM
Re: I-505
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 04:33:30 PM »

When I drove it back in 1977 -- before it was fully brought out to I-standards, it was signed as "Temporary I-505", with, IIRC, smallish shields with a "TEMPORARY" banner above.  That was Caltrans' S.O.P. in those days; it was the same type of signage posted on CA 99 between Stockton and Sacramento prior to the completion of I-5 in early '81.
Logged

ClassicHasClass

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 141
  • 0-60 in 59.999997 years

  • Location: sunny So Cal
  • Last Login: June 16, 2019, 06:48:34 PM
    • Floodgap Roadgap
Re: I-505
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2019, 10:39:56 PM »

Still old: the easternmost stretch of SR 60 as it approaches Beaumont.  Somewhere I read that the section of expressway was to be upgraded to freeway. Does anyone know about this?

They're upgrading it, sort of. There's a new exit going in for Potrero Blvd, and the Western Knolls Ave crossing is being tightened up. Details here (PDF): https://beaumontca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/28062

Realistically the whole Badlands stretch needs substantial work and it looks like that might finally occur in the next few years.
Logged

kendancy66

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 282
  • Age: 61
  • Location: Laguna Hills, CA
  • Last Login: June 16, 2019, 10:16:46 AM
Re: I-505
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2019, 12:22:09 AM »

Still old: the easternmost stretch of SR 60 as it approaches Beaumont.  Somewhere I read that the section of expressway was to be upgraded to freeway. Does anyone know about this?

They're upgrading it, sort of. There's a new exit going in for Potrero Blvd, and the Western Knolls Ave crossing is being tightened up. Details here (PDF): https://beaumontca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/28062

Realistically the whole Badlands stretch needs substantial work and it looks like that might finally occur in the next few years.

Will certainly be desired if you consider all the new housing that they are building there
Logged

MrAndy1369

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 34
  • Last Login: March 29, 2019, 12:47:23 AM
Re: I-505
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2019, 02:37:13 PM »

When I drove it back in 1977 -- before it was fully brought out to I-standards, it was signed as "Temporary I-505", with, IIRC, smallish shields with a "TEMPORARY" banner above.  That was Caltrans' S.O.P. in those days; it was the same type of signage posted on CA 99 between Stockton and Sacramento prior to the completion of I-5 in early '81.

When was I-505 completed at 100%? Before it was decided that the road would definitely be Temporary I-505, was it a state or country/local road?
Logged

Max Rockatansky

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 8755
  • Location: Route 9, Sector 26
  • Last Login: Today at 12:39:27 AM
    • Sure, Why Not? (Highway Blog Spot)
Re: I-505
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2019, 02:49:25 PM »

When I drove it back in 1977 -- before it was fully brought out to I-standards, it was signed as "Temporary I-505", with, IIRC, smallish shields with a "TEMPORARY" banner above.  That was Caltrans' S.O.P. in those days; it was the same type of signage posted on CA 99 between Stockton and Sacramento prior to the completion of I-5 in early '81.

When was I-505 completed at 100%? Before it was decided that the road would definitely be Temporary I-505, was it a state or country/local road?

Before 1964 it was LRN 90 which was adopted in 1933 but never signed as anything. 

sparker

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 5601
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
  • Last Login: Today at 04:27:06 AM
Re: I-505
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2019, 07:31:10 PM »

^^^^^^^^^
Since the LRN/SSR divergence ended with the '64 renumbering effort, former LRN 90 became CA 505 on 1/1/64.  It was signed as a "temporary" Interstate by mid-'67; actual Interstate signage was applied as segments were built out to appropriate standards over the next couple of decades.  The terminating interchanges at I-80 and I-5 had already been constructed as part of previous projects along those facilities. 
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.