Remove yield signs from freeway ramps

[jakeroot]

And a somewhat extreme example:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.409341,-73.6910528,3a,90y,337.32h,73.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spMUiXFqrleAenqIxoB4Qig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Granted, visibility is obscured by road bend - but the result is there is no enough time to accelerate before another car rear-ends you.

That doesn't seem to be any different than a regular slip lane, which are almost all posted with yield signs, regardless of visibility. This is a good example. Strange they'd use a stop sign.

[Revive 755]

Here's an example on I-81 in Carlisle, PA where the 'no merge area' plaques are used.  Going back to 2012 there used to be a diamond shaped 'no merge area' sign.  Unlike the New York example, there is actually a very short acceleration lane present.

[jakeroot]

Here's an example on I-81 in Carlisle, PA where the 'no merge area' plaques are used.  Going back to 2012 there used to be a diamond shaped 'no merge area' sign.  Unlike the New York example, there is actually a very short acceleration lane present.

Very strange. Plenty long enough merge area. I would venture to say that most merges in WA have less room than that!

[Paulinator66]

. . .Those on the highway have the right-of-way. . .

Not in Illinois.  Traffic in the on-ramp has the ROW and traffic on the Interstate must move over or slow down to accommodate.  Yup, I know, I was floored when I found out too.  No one here knows this so it's not really an issue until there's an accident and YOU end up with the ticket when you were just minding your own business in the right lane.

[hbelkins]

. . .Those on the highway have the right-of-way. . .

Not in Illinois.  Traffic in the on-ramp has the ROW and traffic on the Interstate must move over or slow down to accommodate.  Yup, I know, I was floored when I found out too.  No one here knows this so it's not really an issue until there's an accident and YOU end up with the ticket when you were just minding your own business in the right lane.

First place I've ever heard of that being the case. In Kentucky, ramp traffic must yield to the through traffic already on the highway. The through route has the ROW.

[kphoger]

. . .Those on the highway have the right-of-way. . .

Not in Illinois.  Traffic in the on-ramp has the ROW and traffic on the Interstate must move over or slow down to accommodate.  Yup, I know, I was floored when I found out too.  No one here knows this so it's not really an issue until there's an accident and YOU end up with the ticket when you were just minding your own business in the right lane.

Who told you that?  What I see in the Illinois vehicle code is as follows:

(a) When 2 vehicles approach or enter an intersection from different roadways at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left must yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

(b) The right-of-way rule declared in paragraph (a) of this Section is modified at through highways and otherwise as stated in this Chapter.

Notwithstanding the right-of-way provision in Section 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.

Basically, it is equally the responsibility of both drivers to make accommodation.

[RobbieL2415]

No merge area is one thing. I really want them to make it idiot proof. Give the driver every single hint possible about the merge.

[CardInLex]

KYTC has used "SHORT MERGE AREA"  plaques on the New Circle Rd (KY 4) ramps in Lexington.
I think that's pretty effective in letting motorists know about the condition.

Mainline:
https://goo.gl/maps/BqMr5RCqy5L2

Ramp:
https://goo.gl/maps/TLvhXZeJq3p

[hotdogPi]

Wow... I misinterpreted "no merge area" in these last few replies as in "you are not allowed to merge here".

[yand]

. . .Those on the highway have the right-of-way. . .

Not in Illinois.  Traffic in the on-ramp has the ROW and traffic on the Interstate must move over or slow down to accommodate.  Yup, I know, I was floored when I found out too.  No one here knows this so it's not really an issue until there's an accident and YOU end up with the ticket when you were just minding your own business in the right lane.

Who told you that?  What I see in the Illinois vehicle code is as follows:

(a) When 2 vehicles approach or enter an intersection from different roadways at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left must yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

(b) The right-of-way rule declared in paragraph (a) of this Section is modified at through highways and otherwise as stated in this Chapter.

Notwithstanding the right-of-way provision in Section 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.

Basically, it is equally the responsibility of both drivers to make accommodation.

Interesting. Is there another law effective in IL that overrides this?

No merge area is one thing. I really want them to make it idiot proof. Give the driver every single hint possible about the merge.

Before each ramp I do want details about the merge including 1) whether I will be able to maintain the speed limit through the ramp onto the road, 2) how long the effective acceleration area is adjusted for grade, 3) the window of lateral visibility available from the beginning of the obscuration to the end of the merge area. The most realistic way to offer this is probably as a GPS feature.

[hbelkins]

KYTC has used "SHORT MERGE AREA"  plaques on the New Circle Rd (KY 4) ramps in Lexington.
I think that's pretty effective in letting motorists know about the condition.

Mainline:
https://goo.gl/maps/BqMr5RCqy5L2

Ramp:
https://goo.gl/maps/TLvhXZeJq3p

Those must be fairly new installs, but then again, I try to avoid the Nicholasville-New Circle interchange as much as possible.

They've used something similar at New Circle and Newtown, but I suspect those will go away when the reconstruction of that interchange is finished.

[jeffandnicole]

No merge area is one thing. I really want them to make it idiot proof. Give the driver every single hint possible about the merge.

You mean, like a YIELD SIGN?????

[RobbieL2415]

No merge area is one thing. I really want them to make it idiot proof. Give the driver every single hint possible about the merge.

You mean, like a YIELD SIGN?????

No, I mean signs that 1) say the length of the merge in general terminology, 2) display the speed limit of the approaching highway, and 3) mark the point where the merge lane ends as where vehicles should begin to merge. You tell them to yield but you don't tell them why.

[signalman]

You tell them to yield but you don't tell them why.

What?  No other yield (or stop signs for that matter) come with an explanation as to why one must yield or stop.  What makes freeway entrances so special?

[kphoger]

. . .Those on the highway have the right-of-way. . .

Not in Illinois.  Traffic in the on-ramp has the ROW and traffic on the Interstate must move over or slow down to accommodate.  Yup, I know, I was floored when I found out too.  No one here knows this so it's not really an issue until there's an accident and YOU end up with the ticket when you were just minding your own business in the right lane.

Who told you that?  What I see in the Illinois vehicle code is as follows:

(a) When 2 vehicles approach or enter an intersection from different roadways at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left must yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

(b) The right-of-way rule declared in paragraph (a) of this Section is modified at through highways and otherwise as stated in this Chapter.

Notwithstanding the right-of-way provision in Section 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.

Basically, it is equally the responsibility of both drivers to make accommodation.

Interesting. Is there another law effective in IL that overrides this?

Not that I found, or else I would have posted it.  If you find one, please let us know.

I really want them to make it idiot proof. Give the driver every single hint possible about the merge.

Making roads idiot-proof only encourages people to switch off their brains while driving.  Only as much as information as required should be given through signage;  beyond that, people need to open their eyes and turn on their brains.

1) say the length of the merge in general terminology

"No merge area" vs no additional signage should be all that's needed.  No additional signage means you should have enough room to merge.

2) display the speed limit of the approaching highway

Unnecessary.  Even if you don't know the exact speed limit of a highway, you can be reasonably sure it's between 50 and 70 mph.  Aiming for any number in that range should make it fairly easy to adjust your speed according to the prevailing speed of traffic.

mark the point where the merge lane ends as where vehicles should begin to merge.

The end of the merge lane is where vehicles should have already merged, not where they should begin.  If an acceleration lane is fairly long, there's probably a good reason for that–you might need some extra time to juggle vehicles and merge appropriately–but, absent that reason, why not merge early?

You tell them to yield but you don't tell them why.

'Why' is implied by the Yield sign:  because the other traffic has the right of way.

[jeffandnicole]

No merge area is one thing. I really want them to make it idiot proof. Give the driver every single hint possible about the merge.

You mean, like a YIELD SIGN?????

No, I mean signs that 1) say the length of the merge in general terminology, 2) display the speed limit of the approaching highway, and 3) mark the point where the merge lane ends as where vehicles should begin to merge. You tell them to yield but you don't tell them why.

OK, well, there's this:  For some reason after a construction project, on the acceleration lanes they added "Right Lane Ends 900 Feet", "Lane Ends Merge Left", and then the symbolic lane ends signage at the end of the acceleration lane.  See https://goo.gl/maps/RoGHDfgW9BC2 for the first sign, then advance for the next two signs (NJ typically puts the symbol sign at the end of the lane, rather than in advance).  They only did this for a series of interchanges for about 7 miles. Maybe it was an experiment or something, but it's not something I've seen duplicated since.

So this covers your #1 in some detail and covers point #3.  Since you're merging onto the highway, you should be speeding up to safely merge in, and the next speed limit sign is often located very close to the point of entering the highway.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

I feel like I need to comment on this since this exact problem (overuse of yield control) got me extremely close to a major wreck a few hours ago.

I was in the right lane with a line of traffic beside me in the left lane and a teenager in a Mercedes blew through this yield sign. He was probably going around 25 as he entered the right lane and I had to swerve into the left lane to avoid him. If the car to my left were 15 feet farther ahead it would've been a three car wreck, possibly more if people behind were tailgating.

Of course this was the Merc driver's fault, but I think road design was a cause here too. Nearly every ramp on the PIP in NJ has a yield sign, including ramps with extremely long acceleration lanes. Here's an example, this ramp has a ~1,400' acceleration lane, double the minimum green book value based on my rough calculation. I'd argue the majority of yield signs for ramps on the PIP are unnecessary.

Using yield signs like this leads to disrespect for all similar yield signs. On some of the ramps, like the one where I almost crashed, you definitely need to slow down and wait for a gap and a yield sign is warranted. On others, obeying the yield sign and slowing down is not only unnecessary but is also just asking to get rear-ended. Indiscriminate use of yield control forces drivers to make an undue, split-second decision between slowing down or speeding up with high crash potential if they make the wrong choice.

[yand]

. . .Those on the highway have the right-of-way. . .

Not in Illinois.  Traffic in the on-ramp has the ROW and traffic on the Interstate must move over or slow down to accommodate.  Yup, I know, I was floored when I found out too.  No one here knows this so it's not really an issue until there's an accident and YOU end up with the ticket when you were just minding your own business in the right lane.

Who told you that?  What I see in the Illinois vehicle code is as follows:

(a) When 2 vehicles approach or enter an intersection from different roadways at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left must yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

(b) The right-of-way rule declared in paragraph (a) of this Section is modified at through highways and otherwise as stated in this Chapter.

Notwithstanding the right-of-way provision in Section 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.

Basically, it is equally the responsibility of both drivers to make accommodation.

Interesting. Is there another law effective in IL that overrides this?

Not that I found, or else I would have posted it.  If you find one, please let us know.

The reason I ask is if this law is the case and applies to freeways, then at least one state already has a similar law to the one I am suggesting, which means it's not as radical as some people make it out to be 

[jeffandnicole]

. . .Those on the highway have the right-of-way. . .

Not in Illinois.  Traffic in the on-ramp has the ROW and traffic on the Interstate must move over or slow down to accommodate.  Yup, I know, I was floored when I found out too.  No one here knows this so it's not really an issue until there's an accident and YOU end up with the ticket when you were just minding your own business in the right lane.

Who told you that?  What I see in the Illinois vehicle code is as follows:

(a) When 2 vehicles approach or enter an intersection from different roadways at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left must yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

(b) The right-of-way rule declared in paragraph (a) of this Section is modified at through highways and otherwise as stated in this Chapter.

Notwithstanding the right-of-way provision in Section 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.

Basically, it is equally the responsibility of both drivers to make accommodation.

Interesting. Is there another law effective in IL that overrides this?

Not that I found, or else I would have posted it.  If you find one, please let us know.

The reason I ask is if this law is the case and applies to freeways, then at least one state already has a similar law to the one I am suggesting, which means it's not as radical as some people make it out to be 

Well, 1 out of 50 is about as radical as it gets.

[Paulinator66]

. . .Those on the highway have the right-of-way. . .

Not in Illinois.  Traffic in the on-ramp has the ROW and traffic on the Interstate must move over or slow down to accommodate.  Yup, I know, I was floored when I found out too.  No one here knows this so it's not really an issue until there's an accident and YOU end up with the ticket when you were just minding your own business in the right lane.

Who told you that?  What I see in the Illinois vehicle code is as follows:

(a) When 2 vehicles approach or enter an intersection from different roadways at approximately the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left must yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.

(b) The right-of-way rule declared in paragraph (a) of this Section is modified at through highways and otherwise as stated in this Chapter.

Notwithstanding the right-of-way provision in Section 11-901 of this Act, at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging traffic the driver of each vehicle on the converging roadways is required to adjust his vehicular speed and lateral position so as to avoid a collision with another vehicle.

Basically, it is equally the responsibility of both drivers to make accommodation.

Interesting. Is there another law effective in IL that overrides this?

Not that I found, or else I would have posted it.  If you find one, please let us know.

The reason I ask is if this law is the case and applies to freeways, then at least one state already has a similar law to the one I am suggesting, which means it's not as radical as some people make it out to be 

Well, 1 out of 50 is about as radical as it gets.

Well, I can no longer find the law that supports my earlier assertion but I can assure you that this was the case at one time in Illinois. 
I know this because a friend once stated that he got a ticket for this very offense while driving up in the Chicago area many years ago.  I told him he was full of crap because we all learned otherwise in school.  I looked up the law just to prove him wrong and, sure enough, he was correct; there was a law stating that and I had to admit to him that I was wrong. 

Now, in today's world, I can find no evidence that supports any of this so I suspect the law has been changed or repealed at some time over the preceding years.  I DID find a Chicago attorney's web site that states this but it simply may not have been updated recently.  Here's that site. . .see his fourth bullet point:
https://www.chicagolawyer.com/understanding-right-of-way/

Also, I would argue that 625 ILCS 5/11-905 does not apply to highways since it begins ". . .at an intersection where traffic lanes are provided for merging. . .."  There are no intersections on a freeway, by design, so there must be another law that applies although I'm no attorney so I have yet to find it. 

I'm still looking.

[hotdogPi]

There are no intersections on a freeway, by design.

Merge points at on-ramps and gores at off-ramps are three-leg intersections where every leg is one-way.