Maryland

[sprjus4]

^ I've heard it mentioned from several sources (including CP, IIRC) that any expansion of the Legion Bridge crossing will require a new bridge.

Pretty much.  Six lanes were built in the early 1960s and the rest in the late 1980s.  Time for a completely new structure.

The bridge would likely be unfeasible to widen. Though, a new structure would likely cost at least $1 billion in today's estimates.

[Beltway]

^ I've heard it mentioned from several sources (including CP, IIRC) that any expansion of the Legion Bridge crossing will require a new bridge.

Pretty much.  Six lanes were built in the early 1960s and the rest in the late 1980s.  Time for a completely new structure.

The bridge would likely be unfeasible to widen. Though, a new structure would likely cost at least $1 billion in today's estimates.

Doubtful.  The Wilson Bridge cost $830 million and is 5 times as long and twice as high.

[D-Dey65]

Baltimore Sun/The Aegis: Proposed I-95 interchange in Cecil draws concerns and praise

Some Cecil County residents are concerned an additional Interstate 95 interchange between Perryville and North East could bring greater traffic headaches to their neighborhood, while other residents and county leaders say it would help economic development and alleviate traffic congestion on area highways.

"This is essential to Cecil County's continued economic growth,"  Chris Moyer, director of the county's office of economic development, said.

Moyer, along with other county government leaders, was among at least 76 people who attended an open house on the project, hosted by the Maryland Transportation Authority, in the Technology Center at Cecil College Tuesday evening.

Yikes! Even if they had a folding diamond on the west side of the Belvidere Road bridge, you've still got a big risk of people cutting across six lanes of traffic to get between there and Chesapeake House.

Too close, man. Too close.

[sprjus4]

^ I've heard it mentioned from several sources (including CP, IIRC) that any expansion of the Legion Bridge crossing will require a new bridge.

Pretty much.  Six lanes were built in the early 1960s and the rest in the late 1980s.  Time for a completely new structure.

The bridge would likely be unfeasible to widen. Though, a new structure would likely cost at least $1 billion in today's estimates.

Doubtful.  The Wilson Bridge cost $830 million and is 5 times as long and twice as high.

At least $500 million. Remember, you're dealing with a sensitive area, and constructing brand new bridges + approach. A project would likely tackle a bridge replacement + HO/T to I-270, so for that you can estimate $1 - $1.5 billion.

[Beltway]

^ I've heard it mentioned from several sources (including CP, IIRC) that any expansion of the Legion Bridge crossing will require a new bridge.

Pretty much.  Six lanes were built in the early 1960s and the rest in the late 1980s.  Time for a completely new structure.

The bridge would likely be unfeasible to widen. Though, a new structure would likely cost at least $1 billion in today's estimates.

Doubtful.  The Wilson Bridge cost $830 million and is 5 times as long and twice as high.

At least $500 million. Remember, you're dealing with a sensitive area, and constructing brand new bridges + approach. A project would likely tackle a bridge replacement + HO/T to I-270, so for that you can estimate $1 - $1.5 billion.

I was speaking of the bridge itself, which is about 1,300 feet long.  WWB is 6,100 feet long.

Widening of roadway and (maybe replacing) bridges for the 3 miles between there and I-270 would naturally add to the overall costs.

[Alps]

Would also note that Wilson was constructed with parallel roadways while maintaining traffic on the existing bridge. Legion bridge has no way to do that, with the parks on either side it'll have to be widening along the alignment, which adds a lot of complexity to staging and construction.

[Beltway]

Would also note that Wilson was constructed with parallel roadways while maintaining traffic on the existing bridge. Legion bridge has no way to do that, with the parks on either side it'll have to be widening along the alignment, which adds a lot of complexity to staging and construction.

The Clara Barton Parkway interchange is also mostly on parkland, and the Beltway crosses parkland near the Cabin John Parkway interchange.

I would probably build 4 lanes of new bridge with a 12-foot right shoulder on the east side of the bridge, vacate and replace the current 5 lanes of Inner Loop bridge, put the Outer Loop traffic there, and then replace the 5 lanes of Outer Loop bridge.

The bridge really needs to have 7 lanes each way (AUX-GP-GP-GP-GP-H-H) and with 12-foot shoulders on each side of each roadway.  That is 216 feet of bridge deck, or two separate bridges of 108 feet each ... that will be tough getting NEPA approval for that.

[sprjus4]

Would also note that Wilson was constructed with parallel roadways while maintaining traffic on the existing bridge. Legion bridge has no way to do that, with the parks on either side it'll have to be widening along the alignment, which adds a lot of complexity to staging and construction.

The Clara Barton Parkway interchange is also mostly on parkland, and the Beltway crosses parkland near the Cabin John Parkway interchange.

I would probably build 4 lanes of new bridge with a 12-foot right shoulder on the east side of the bridge, vacate and replace the current 5 lanes of Inner Loop bridge, put the Outer Loop traffic there, and then replace the 5 lanes of Outer Loop bridge.

The bridge really needs to have 7 lanes each way (AUX-GP-GP-GP-GP-GP-H-H) and with 12-foot shoulders on each side of each roadway.  That is 216 feet of bridge deck ... that will be tough getting NEPA approval for that.

Why 5 GP lanes? The current proposal is 4 GP + 2 HO/T, and presumably 1 auxiliary.

And that wide of a span in an enviromentally sensisitve area would likely drive costs up. Maybe not to $1 billion, but no less than $500 - 600 million for the span and environmental impacts alone.

The 18 miles of construction of SEP&G in Virginia Beach would've cost around $5 billion in today's dollars. That's $278 million per mile, 4-lane at-grade freeway, in an environmentally sensitive area. A bridge would be double that cost.

[Beltway]

Why 5 GP lanes? The current proposal is 4 GP + 2 HO/T, and presumably 1 auxiliary.

I already edited out the 5th "GP".

And that wide of a span in an enviromentally sensisitve area would likely drive costs up. Maybe not to $1 billion, but no less than $500 - 600 million for the span and environmental impacts alone.
The 18 miles of construction of SEP&G in Virginia Beach would've cost around $5 billion in today's dollars. That's $278 million per mile, 4-lane at-grade freeway, in an environmentally sensitive area. A bridge would be double that cost.

One billion dollars ...
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/southeastern_parkway_and_greenbelt.asp

[sprjus4]

Why 5 GP lanes? The current proposal is 4 GP + 2 HO/T, and presumably 1 auxiliary.

I already edited out the 5th "GP".

And that wide of a span in an enviromentally sensisitve area would likely drive costs up. Maybe not to $1 billion, but no less than $500 - 600 million for the span and environmental impacts alone.
The 18 miles of construction of SEP&G in Virginia Beach would've cost around $5 billion in today's dollars. That's $278 million per mile, 4-lane at-grade freeway, in an environmentally sensitive area. A bridge would be double that cost.

One billion dollars ...
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/southeastern_parkway_and_greenbelt.asp

I don't have a link at the moment, though I recall seeing a planning estimate in one of the SYIP's for 2016 or 2017 that showed around $5 billion. I will get a link tomorrow.

[Beltway]

The 18 miles of construction of SEP&G in Virginia Beach would've cost around $5 billion in today's dollars. That's $278 million per mile, 4-lane at-grade freeway, in an environmentally sensitive area. A bridge would be double that cost.

One billion dollars ...
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/southeastern_parkway_and_greenbelt.asp

I don't have a link at the moment, though I recall seeing a planning estimate in one of the SYIP's for 2016 or 2017 that showed around $5 billion. I will get a link tomorrow.

That is the project webpage, Page last modified: Jan. 23, 2019.

"State and federal funds are not sufficient to pay for [all] the project, which is estimated to cost $1 billion. "

That is high enough, at an average of $55 million per mile.  While it is difficult to get environmental clearance to go thru wetlands, it is not that necessarily that expensive dollarwise.

[sprjus4]

The 18 miles of construction of SEP&G in Virginia Beach would've cost around $5 billion in today's dollars. That's $278 million per mile, 4-lane at-grade freeway, in an environmentally sensitive area. A bridge would be double that cost.

One billion dollars ...
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/southeastern_parkway_and_greenbelt.asp

I don't have a link at the moment, though I recall seeing a planning estimate in one of the SYIP's for 2016 or 2017 that showed around $5 billion. I will get a link tomorrow.

That is the project webpage, Page last modified: Jan. 23, 2019.

"State and federal funds are not sufficient to pay for [all] the project, which is estimated to cost $1 billion. "

That is high enough, at an average of $55 million per mile.  While it is difficult to get environmental clearance to go thru wetlands, it is not that necessarily that expensive dollarwise.

Wasn't able to source my $5 billion number (I swore I saw it before), though this SYIP from FY 2013 - 2018 (http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/allProjects.aspx) notes $1.710 billion. That's close to $100 million per mile. I imagine the cost still has increased.

Up until FY 2018, the SYIP also included a project to construct a small portion of it - $77 million. I wouldn't imagine much coming from that judging by the overall cost estimate.

Now there's $12,000 allocated to preliminary engineering. Why are they still trying on this project? I agree it'd be nice, however in today's cost estimates, it's too expensive to warrant construction. Should've built it in the late 90s when it was still under $1 billion.

[Beltway]

The 18 miles of construction of SEP&G in Virginia Beach would've cost around $5 billion in today's dollars. That's $278 million per mile, 4-lane at-grade freeway, in an environmentally sensitive area. A bridge would be double that cost.

One billion dollars ...
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/southeastern_parkway_and_greenbelt.asp

I don't have a link at the moment, though I recall seeing a planning estimate in one of the SYIP's for 2016 or 2017 that showed around $5 billion. I will get a link tomorrow.

That is the project webpage, Page last modified: Jan. 23, 2019.
"State and federal funds are not sufficient to pay for [all] the project, which is estimated to cost $1 billion. "
That is high enough, at an average of $55 million per mile.  While it is difficult to get environmental clearance to go thru wetlands, it is not that necessarily that expensive dollarwise.

Wasn't able to source my $5 billion number (I swore I saw it before), though this SYIP from FY 2013 - 2018 (http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/allProjects.aspx) notes $1.710 billion. That's close to $100 million per mile. I imagine the cost still has increased.

Where?  It is not even listed under the cities of Chesapeake and Virginia Beach.

Up until FY 2018, the SYIP also included a project to construct a small portion of it - $77 million. I wouldn't imagine much coming from that judging by the overall cost estimate.
Now there's $12,000 allocated to preliminary engineering. Why are they still trying on this project? I agree it'd be nice, however in today's cost estimates, it's too expensive to warrant construction. Should've built it in the late 90s when it was still under $1 billion.

I don't know why you are disputing the cost as listed on the VDOT project webpage that was last updated this month, $1 billion.

Four lanes and only modest amounts of routine bridgework... right-of-way mostly avoids developments and there are a few areas that look like it has been reserved... that would account for it.

[sprjus4]

The 18 miles of construction of SEP&G in Virginia Beach would've cost around $5 billion in today's dollars. That's $278 million per mile, 4-lane at-grade freeway, in an environmentally sensitive area. A bridge would be double that cost.

One billion dollars ...
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/southeastern_parkway_and_greenbelt.asp

I don't have a link at the moment, though I recall seeing a planning estimate in one of the SYIP's for 2016 or 2017 that showed around $5 billion. I will get a link tomorrow.

That is the project webpage, Page last modified: Jan. 23, 2019.
"State and federal funds are not sufficient to pay for [all] the project, which is estimated to cost $1 billion. "
That is high enough, at an average of $55 million per mile.  While it is difficult to get environmental clearance to go thru wetlands, it is not that necessarily that expensive dollarwise.

Wasn't able to source my $5 billion number (I swore I saw it before), though this SYIP from FY 2013 - 2018 (http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/allProjects.aspx) notes $1.710 billion. That's close to $100 million per mile. I imagine the cost still has increased.

Where?  It is not even listed under the cities of Chesapeake and Virginia Beach.

Go to FY 2013 - 2018, and search "Southeastern"  statewide. It comes up.

I don't know why you are disputing the cost as listed on the VDOT project webpage that was last updated this month, $1 billion.

Four lanes and only modest amounts of routine bridgework... right-of-way mostly avoids developments and there are a few areas that look like it has been reserved... that would account for it.

Chesapeake and Virginia Beach have started building neighborhoods over its official route.

The website claims it was updated last week, however that page has been the same for years. The official FY 13 - 18 SYIP says $1.7 billion, and I recall seeing a higher figure. I'm not against the highway, in fact I was a big supporter, however I just don't see it happening, especially with the localities beginning to develop on its right of way. A lot of the route in Virginia Beach is paralleled by the existing limited-access Dam Neck Rd which is posted at 55 MPH. That portion is the least important IMHO. Also, IIRC a few years back, the cities sold back some preserved right of way.

A Chesapeake official told me about a year ago that the Southeastern Pkwy is going to be removed from the Master Transportation Plan as well.

[Beltway]

Wasn't able to source my $5 billion number (I swore I saw it before), though this SYIP from FY 2013 - 2018 (http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/allProjects.aspx) notes $1.710 billion. That's close to $100 million per mile. I imagine the cost still has increased.

Where?  It is not even listed under the cities of Chesapeake and Virginia Beach.

Go to FY 2013 - 2018, and search "Southeastern"  statewide. It comes up.

Oh, 2013 ... I looked in 2018.  It may have still been an 8-lane Interstate standard highway at that time.  Part of why it was downscoped was because of the high cost.

The website claims it was updated last week, however that page has been the same for years. The official FY 13 - 18 SYIP says $1.7 billion, and I recall seeing a higher figure.

See above.  As far as today's cost, the 4-lane parkway-like design may account for the $1 billion, and if the VDOT webpage is wrong on that figure it wouldn't be the first time a webpage had an error.

[Beltway]

New American Legion Bridge within years, says Md. highway administrator
By Neal Augenstein, WTOP
January 31, 2019

WASHINGTON – Soon after Virginia announced its plans to extend Express Lanes almost three miles from Tysons Corner to the American Legion Bridge, Maryland has confirmed a new bridge will be equipped to handle extra traffic.

Without committing to a precise timeline, Maryland's highway administrator, Greg Slater, said a new American Legion Bridge will be built within the next several years.

"We are focused on the bridge as our first order of business,"  Slater told WUSA9. "We want to get out there and move that traffic."

Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam announced Tuesday new Express Lanes will run in each direction of the Beltway from the Dulles Access Road to the Legion Bridge at the Maryland border. Construction could begin next year.

The announcement left open the question: How would Maryland deal with more traffic on the bridge, that currently carries four lanes over the Potomac River, into Maryland?  In each direction, the bridge has four through-lanes, and one exit lane.  "The only way to address that bridge, and have more capacity on that bridge, is to build a new bridge,"  Slater said.

What's still not clear is the configuration of the bridge, although Slater confirmed to Channel 9 that the new bridge would have additional lanes to allow a seamless flow from Virginia Express Lane traffic into Maryland.

In 2017, Maryland Governor Larry Hogan announced plans for a public-private partnership to add toll lanes to I-270 and the Beltway, but didn't provide specifics on how the Legion Bridge, which was built in 1963, would carry traffic.

Slater said private developers interested in being part of the project are being directed to develop plans that would add new Beltway lanes within the Interstate's existing footprint, leaving open the possibilities of stacked roadways or travel underground.

In announcing Virginia's $1 billion deal with Transurban to build four road projects in Northern Virginia, Transportation Secretary Shannon Valentine said: "It's also going to provide for Virginians, regardless of what happens in Maryland, direct access to the George Washington Parkway."

Valentine was asked how, and how quickly the new project would provide relief to those who currently deal with overflow traffic.

"I would like to say immediately,"  she said. "Of all the issues, this is one of the top that we hear from citizens about, is the cut-through traffic in McLean."

Currently, about a quarter million vehicles cross the bridge daily, but over the next 20 years planners estimate that will climb to 300,000 per day.

SMK: I can see some engineering difficulties for the approach transitions to a double-decked bridge, and for the steep grades needed to transition to a tunnel under the river to say nothing of the cost.

[ixnay]

Beltway, that looks like DC's Big Dig.

ixnay

[sprjus4]

Wasn't able to source my $5 billion number (I swore I saw it before), though this SYIP from FY 2013 - 2018 (http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/allProjects.aspx) notes $1.710 billion. That's close to $100 million per mile. I imagine the cost still has increased.

Where?  It is not even listed under the cities of Chesapeake and Virginia Beach.

Go to FY 2013 - 2018, and search "Southeastern"  statewide. It comes up.

Oh, 2013 ... I looked in 2018.  It may have still been an 8-lane Interstate standard highway at that time.  Part of why it was downscoped was because of the high cost.

The website claims it was updated last week, however that page has been the same for years. The official FY 13 - 18 SYIP says $1.7 billion, and I recall seeing a higher figure.

See above.  As far as today's cost, the 4-lane parkway-like design may account for the $1 billion, and if the VDOT webpage is wrong on that figure it wouldn't be the first time a webpage had an error.

I found the source. https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/121917%20P6-RegionalPriorityProjects-Round2-draft%20scores.pdf

Page 6 actually provides cost estimates for numerous of projects around the area as of December 2017.

The "Southeastern Parkway and Greenbelt" is estimated at $4.8 billion.

Some other interesting figures

• I-64 Peninsula Widening - 8 Lanes - Exit 255 to Exit 234 (Rt 199 north end) ($2.8 billion)
• I-64 HRBT Widening - 8 Lanes ($11.5 billion!)

[epzik8]

This doesn't add to anything, but I was watching Today on NBC this morning, and WBAL was doing traffic on the bottom, and they were showing I-695 travel times on both loops, such as the outer loop between I-795 (19) and U.S. 40 (15), but they had the shield for MD-295, which is the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, and not a beltway. Whoops.

[BrianP]

https://www.marylandmatters.org/2019/02/05/house-senate-bills-could-jam-up-hogan-highway-plan/

Maryland lawmakers will hear testimony this week on a measure that would give counties potential veto power over the Hogan administration's $9 billion plan to widen the Capital Beltway, Interstate 270 and the Baltimore-Washington Parkway.

The bill, sponsored by Del. Brooke E. Lierman (D-Baltimore City), would extend power that nine Eastern Shore counties have had since the 1970s to all Maryland subdivisions.

"I oppose widening the footprint of I-270 between Gaithersburg and the Beltway,"  Barve said. "The possibility of widening I-270 north of Gaithersburg, where it narrows down to two lanes [in each direction], I think that's the first thing that the Department of Transportation should consider."

[Ben114]

Beltway, that looks like DC's Big Dig.

ixnay

If DC were to have a Big Dig, I-95 should be rerouted off I-495.

[D-Dey65]

Beltway, that looks like DC's Big Dig.

ixnay

If DC were to have a Big Dig, I-95 should be rerouted off I-495.

I would LOVE to see that!

[sprjus4]

Beltway, that looks like DC's Big Dig.

ixnay

If DC were to have a Big Dig, I-95 should be rerouted off I-495.

6 miles of 8-lane (4 - 4) tunnel starting at I-395's northern terminus, then 2 miles of surface freeway connecting to I-95. $5 - 6 billion. Could be toll supported.

Let's build it! If they can propose it for I-710, then game on.

[Tonytone]

Potential, new Bay Bridge locations.
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/maryland/2019/02/13/new-chesapeake-bay-bridge-span-somerset-dorchester/2846083002/


iPhone

[Beltway]

Potential, new Bay Bridge locations.

Across the peninsulas of western Talbot County?  That is insane.  My dad will have something to say about that as he lives there.  I don't know why MDTA even published them, but they are going to make a lot of people angry.  From the western shore, across to Tilghman Island, then across the Choptank waters to Oxford?