AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Maryland  (Read 59855 times)

BrianP

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 513
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: Today at 04:11:25 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2000 on: February 22, 2021, 09:34:24 AM »

It's doubtful that anything is done to that interchange.  Since they recently rehabbed replaced the superstructure of the bridges in the interchange.  The worst part is they didn't improve them.  So they are still substandard due to a lack of shoulders.  I would have combined the two bridges in each direction to add space for at least some kind of increase in shoulder width or even combine all four bridges into one bridge.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 12:33:09 PM by BrianP »
Logged

ARMOURERERIC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1082
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Morganton NC
  • Last Login: Today at 09:41:57 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2001 on: February 22, 2021, 08:44:52 PM »

Which 2 loop ramps have the highest ADT
Logged

Dirt Roads

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 483
  • Location: Central North Carolina
  • Last Login: Today at 10:47:04 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2002 on: February 22, 2021, 09:36:55 PM »

Interested in how they'll tackle the I-70 interchange because it is a mess.

My expectation is that two of the highest-utilized loop ramps will be replaced with flyovers.

Which 2 loop ramps have the highest ADT

Don't know if it is the highest ADT loop ramp, but the ramp from northbound I-81 to westbound I-70 carries a significant portion of Northwest Virginia traffic towards Cumberland, Morgantown and Pittsburgh (and perhaps other points southwest).  I've always preferred VA-37 to US-522 (or my favorite VA-37 to VA/WV-127 to WV-29 to WV-9/MD-51).  A flyover for this ramp would be highly justified.
Logged

mcmc

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 40
  • Location: United States
  • Last Login: Today at 06:51:44 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2003 on: February 23, 2021, 08:26:26 PM »

About a year ago, the cloverleaf loop from US 29 northbound to MD-175/Little Patuxent Parkway westbound was closed and replaced with a partial cloverleaf, with a traffic light at the end of the ramp. This is in Columbia.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why SHA would want to make the interchange less elegant and (seemingly) less efficient. Anyone have any idea what the logic is?

US 29 at MD-175 on Google Maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/search/us+29+at+md+175/@39.2260909,-76.848221,1197m/data=!3m1!1e3

« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 08:50:03 PM by mcmc »
Logged

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 12339
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: Today at 10:54:53 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2004 on: February 23, 2021, 08:53:41 PM »

Reducing the weave areas, maybe? Merriweather Post Pavilion is at the next interchange south of there and Little Patuxent Parkway is one of the routes traffic leaving the venue uses, especially northbound, which is the direction whose access is expedited by closing that loop. The movement that loop ramp carried seems like it ought to carry less traffic overall just based on where the roads go.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mcmc

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 40
  • Location: United States
  • Last Login: Today at 06:51:44 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2005 on: February 23, 2021, 09:16:01 PM »

Merriweather Post Pavilion is at the next interchange south of there and Little Patuxent Parkway is one of the routes traffic leaving the venue uses, especially northbound, which is the direction whose access is expedited by closing that loop.
Good hunch, but I don't think that's it. The ramp in question leads straight back to Merriweather; no traffic exiting Merriweather would take that exit.

Is anyone privy to SHA's thinking? Was the cloverleaf in bad shape or somehow considered substandard?
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13888
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 38
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 10:32:19 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2006 on: February 23, 2021, 09:36:26 PM »

The weave issue is likely on 29, is my guess.

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 12339
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: Today at 10:54:53 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2007 on: February 23, 2021, 09:38:51 PM »

Merriweather Post Pavilion is at the next interchange south of there and Little Patuxent Parkway is one of the routes traffic leaving the venue uses, especially northbound, which is the direction whose access is expedited by closing that loop.
Good hunch, but I don't think that's it. The ramp in question leads straight back to Merriweather; no traffic exiting Merriweather would take that exit.

Is anyone privy to SHA's thinking? Was the cloverleaf in bad shape or somehow considered substandard?

What I meant is that by closing the loop exit from Route 29, traffic coming from Merriweather heading onto northbound 29 doesn’t have any weave area to back up the traffic.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Bitmapped

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 711
  • Location: Morgantown, WV
  • Last Login: March 03, 2021, 08:24:41 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2008 on: February 23, 2021, 10:23:03 PM »

Merriweather Post Pavilion is at the next interchange south of there and Little Patuxent Parkway is one of the routes traffic leaving the venue uses, especially northbound, which is the direction whose access is expedited by closing that loop.
Good hunch, but I don't think that's it. The ramp in question leads straight back to Merriweather; no traffic exiting Merriweather would take that exit.

Is anyone privy to SHA's thinking? Was the cloverleaf in bad shape or somehow considered substandard?

Converting cloverleafs to parclos is pretty common. SHA has done it elsewhere (like I-270 at MD 85) as have other agencies (I-376 at US 22/US 30/PA 60 near Pittsburgh, I-81 at US 33 in Harrisonburg, VA, I-70 at OH 79 near Buckeye Lake, OH). Removing one of the inner loops often results in better traffic flow on the main route since it eliminates weaving.
Logged

froggie

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11489
  • Location: Greensboro, VT
  • Last Login: Today at 09:32:32 AM
    • Froggie's Place
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2009 on: February 23, 2021, 11:29:56 PM »

Which 2 loop ramps have the highest ADT

Don't know if it is the highest ADT loop ramp, but the ramp from northbound I-81 to westbound I-70 carries a significant portion of Northwest Virginia traffic towards Cumberland, Morgantown and Pittsburgh (and perhaps other points southwest).  I've always preferred VA-37 to US-522 (or my favorite VA-37 to VA/WV-127 to WV-29 to WV-9/MD-51).  A flyover for this ramp would be highly justified.

Believe it or not, but per 2019 SHA data, that particular loop is the LEAST used loop at the 70/81 interchange.

The busiest loop, by far, is the SB 81 to EB 70 loop, followed by the WB 70 to SB 81 loop.
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13888
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 38
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 10:32:19 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2010 on: February 23, 2021, 11:32:30 PM »

Which 2 loop ramps have the highest ADT

Don't know if it is the highest ADT loop ramp, but the ramp from northbound I-81 to westbound I-70 carries a significant portion of Northwest Virginia traffic towards Cumberland, Morgantown and Pittsburgh (and perhaps other points southwest).  I've always preferred VA-37 to US-522 (or my favorite VA-37 to VA/WV-127 to WV-29 to WV-9/MD-51).  A flyover for this ramp would be highly justified.

Believe it or not, but per 2019 SHA data, that particular loop is the LEAST used loop at the 70/81 interchange.

The busiest loop, by far, is the SB 81 to EB 70 loop, followed by the WB 70 to SB 81 loop.

Makes the most sense to convert the least used one into the left turn, from a traffic standpoint. That suggests closing off the weave was more of a safety concern than a volume issue.

noelbotevera

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3189
  • Now at a Redbox kiosk near you!

  • Age: 16
  • Location: Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
  • Last Login: Today at 09:53:41 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2011 on: February 23, 2021, 11:38:12 PM »

It's doubtful that anything is done to that interchange.  Since they recently rehabbed replaced the superstructure of the bridges in the interchange.  The worst part is they didn't improve them.  So they are still substandard due to a lack of shoulders.  I would have combined the two bridges in each direction to add space for at least some kind of increase in shoulder width or even combine all four bridges into one bridge.
Eh. If MDSHA wants to 6-lane I-81, they have to fix that interchange; there's not enough room to add another lane. This interchange isn't helped by the fact that exit 5 is so close by; a possible solution would be C/D lanes between exits 4 and 5 with striping favoring a merge onto I-81.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 11:41:57 PM by noelbotevera »
Logged
Doing things that nobody wants to do since 2004.
I was THE youngest forum member from May 14th, 2015 to September 25th, 2016.

I am the second Alex, since I currently use my father's name...

Bitmapped

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 711
  • Location: Morgantown, WV
  • Last Login: March 03, 2021, 08:24:41 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2012 on: February 24, 2021, 12:38:16 PM »

Which 2 loop ramps have the highest ADT

Don't know if it is the highest ADT loop ramp, but the ramp from northbound I-81 to westbound I-70 carries a significant portion of Northwest Virginia traffic towards Cumberland, Morgantown and Pittsburgh (and perhaps other points southwest).  I've always preferred VA-37 to US-522 (or my favorite VA-37 to VA/WV-127 to WV-29 to WV-9/MD-51).  A flyover for this ramp would be highly justified.

Believe it or not, but per 2019 SHA data, that particular loop is the LEAST used loop at the 70/81 interchange.

The busiest loop, by far, is the SB 81 to EB 70 loop, followed by the WB 70 to SB 81 loop.

Makes the most sense to convert the least used one into the left turn, from a traffic standpoint. That suggests closing off the weave was more of a safety concern than a volume issue.

You're confusing two completely different interchanges. I-70/I-81 is still a full cloverleaf with C/D lanes. The one that was changed to a parclo was on US 29.
Logged

MASTERNC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 627
  • Last Login: March 04, 2021, 11:28:46 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2013 on: February 24, 2021, 08:41:58 PM »

Which 2 loop ramps have the highest ADT

Don't know if it is the highest ADT loop ramp, but the ramp from northbound I-81 to westbound I-70 carries a significant portion of Northwest Virginia traffic towards Cumberland, Morgantown and Pittsburgh (and perhaps other points southwest).  I've always preferred VA-37 to US-522 (or my favorite VA-37 to VA/WV-127 to WV-29 to WV-9/MD-51).  A flyover for this ramp would be highly justified.

Believe it or not, but per 2019 SHA data, that particular loop is the LEAST used loop at the 70/81 interchange.

The busiest loop, by far, is the SB 81 to EB 70 loop, followed by the WB 70 to SB 81 loop.


I would have thought EB to NB would have been one of the more popular ones as a cut up to the PA Turnpike and the Northeast (bypassing I-95)
Logged

NJRoadfan

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1496
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: March 04, 2021, 10:44:12 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2014 on: February 25, 2021, 10:59:59 AM »

Even the world's first cloverleaf got converted to a parclo.
Logged

MillTheRoadgeek

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 124
  • Age: 19
  • Last Login: Today at 08:31:48 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2015 on: February 26, 2021, 01:12:45 PM »

Merriweather Post Pavilion is at the next interchange south of there and Little Patuxent Parkway is one of the routes traffic leaving the venue uses, especially northbound, which is the direction whose access is expedited by closing that loop.
Good hunch, but I don't think that's it. The ramp in question leads straight back to Merriweather; no traffic exiting Merriweather would take that exit.

Is anyone privy to SHA's thinking? Was the cloverleaf in bad shape or somehow considered substandard?

Converting cloverleafs to parclos is pretty common. SHA has done it elsewhere (like I-270 at MD 85) as have other agencies (I-376 at US 22/US 30/PA 60 near Pittsburgh, I-81 at US 33 in Harrisonburg, VA, I-70 at OH 79 near Buckeye Lake, OH). Removing one of the inner loops often results in better traffic flow on the main route since it eliminates weaving.

I feel MDSHA has definitely cracked down on cloverleaf interchanges, more than any other jurisdiction I know. I can name a dozen or more where they've taken loops out.
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10790
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: Today at 06:39:36 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2016 on: March 01, 2021, 02:03:35 PM »

Merriweather Post Pavilion is at the next interchange south of there and Little Patuxent Parkway is one of the routes traffic leaving the venue uses, especially northbound, which is the direction whose access is expedited by closing that loop.
Good hunch, but I don't think that's it. The ramp in question leads straight back to Merriweather; no traffic exiting Merriweather would take that exit.

Is anyone privy to SHA's thinking? Was the cloverleaf in bad shape or somehow considered substandard?

Converting cloverleafs to parclos is pretty common. SHA has done it elsewhere (like I-270 at MD 85) as have other agencies (I-376 at US 22/US 30/PA 60 near Pittsburgh, I-81 at US 33 in Harrisonburg, VA, I-70 at OH 79 near Buckeye Lake, OH). Removing one of the inner loops often results in better traffic flow on the main route since it eliminates weaving.

I feel MDSHA has definitely cracked down on cloverleaf interchanges, more than any other jurisdiction I know. I can name a dozen or more where they've taken loops out.

Maybe the biggest interchange to get the cloverleaf ramps removed was the one at I-95 Exit 19 with U.S. 50 ("secret" I-595) in Prince George's County.  The creaking old cloverleaf (dated to the opening of the Capital Beltway) was not able to keep up with increased traffic volumes, so three of the four cloverleaf ramps were removed in the 1980's. Access to the New Carrollton Metrorail, Metrobus, inter-city bus and Amtrak was also improved - and the nearby interchange at U.S. 50 and MD-704 was upgraded.

EDIT:  U.S. 50 was widened and most of the other interchanges between MD-410 (Veterans Parkway) and MD-70 (Rowe Boulevard) were modified or totally rebuilt at this time.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 02:41:07 PM by cpzilliacus »
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Roadsguy

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 1770
  • Age: 21
  • Location: Here
  • Last Login: Today at 11:25:05 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2017 on: March 01, 2021, 09:20:36 PM »

...three of the four cloverleaf ramps were removed in the 1980's.

And the loop that wasn't removed was widened to two lanes!
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 1453
  • Age: 18
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: Today at 11:18:27 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2018 on: March 01, 2021, 10:35:36 PM »

Virginia still has MANY of those! I'm guessing it's to slow traffic down and make roads more pedestrian-friendly.
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13888
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 38
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 10:32:19 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2019 on: March 02, 2021, 12:06:49 AM »

Virginia still has MANY of those! I'm guessing it's to slow traffic down and make roads more pedestrian-friendly.
what

MASTERNC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 627
  • Last Login: March 04, 2021, 11:28:46 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2020 on: March 02, 2021, 12:47:00 PM »

Not sure if anyone picked this up, but the MDTA has advertised plans to remove the Fort McHenry Tunnel toll plaza and to install gantries instead.

https://emma.maryland.gov/page.aspx/en/bpm/process_manage_extranet/31984
Logged

plain

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1018
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Richmond Virginia
  • Last Login: Today at 04:07:12 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2021 on: March 02, 2021, 01:58:33 PM »

Not sure if anyone picked this up, but the MDTA has advertised plans to remove the Fort McHenry Tunnel toll plaza and to install gantries instead.

https://emma.maryland.gov/page.aspx/en/bpm/process_manage_extranet/31984

I figured this was bound to happen since it's now cashless anyway because of the pandemic. At least this will eliminate the congestion associated with the barrier.
Logged
Newark born, Richmond bred

jmacswimmer

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 356
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: March 04, 2021, 04:01:17 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2022 on: March 02, 2021, 02:21:23 PM »

Not sure if anyone picked this up, but the MDTA has advertised plans to remove the Fort McHenry Tunnel toll plaza and to install gantries instead.

https://emma.maryland.gov/page.aspx/en/bpm/process_manage_extranet/31984

I figured this was bound to happen since it's now cashless anyway because of the pandemic. At least this will eliminate the congestion associated with the barrier.

Hopefully the JFK & BHT toll plazas aren't far behind.  (Nice Bridge was/is already planned to be converted to AET as part of the replacement project.)
Logged
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

MASTERNC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 627
  • Last Login: March 04, 2021, 11:28:46 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2023 on: March 02, 2021, 04:02:57 PM »

Not sure if anyone picked this up, but the MDTA has advertised plans to remove the Fort McHenry Tunnel toll plaza and to install gantries instead.

https://emma.maryland.gov/page.aspx/en/bpm/process_manage_extranet/31984

I figured this was bound to happen since it's now cashless anyway because of the pandemic. At least this will eliminate the congestion associated with the barrier.

Hopefully the JFK & BHT toll plazas aren't far behind.  (Nice Bridge was/is already planned to be converted to AET as part of the replacement project.)

The BHT toll plaza is part of another project currently in the study phase

https://mdta.maryland.gov/I895TollPlaza
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10790
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: Today at 06:39:36 PM
Re: Maryland
« Reply #2024 on: March 04, 2021, 08:07:44 AM »

Not sure if anyone picked this up, but the MDTA has advertised plans to remove the Fort McHenry Tunnel toll plaza and to install gantries instead.

https://emma.maryland.gov/page.aspx/en/bpm/process_manage_extranet/31984

I figured this was bound to happen since it's now cashless anyway because of the pandemic. At least this will eliminate the congestion associated with the barrier.

Hopefully the JFK & BHT toll plazas aren't far behind.  (Nice Bridge was/is already planned to be converted to AET as part of the replacement project.)

The BHT toll plaza is part of another project currently in the study phase

https://mdta.maryland.gov/I895TollPlaza

This is an example of a project that should probably not need to go through the full NEPA process.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.