AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Completely redundant routes  (Read 3342 times)

1

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7325
  • UMass Lowell student

  • Age: 20
  • Location: MA/NH border
  • Last Login: Today at 05:35:57 PM
    • Flickr account
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2019, 09:38:49 AM »

Would NY-5's concurrency with US-20 count? They are together for about 70 miles between Avon and Auburn.

No. NY 5 is not entirely overlapped, even if it is overlapped for a long distance.
Logged
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US ⒔50
MA ⒐2⒉40.9⒐10⒎10⒐1⒒1⒚14⒈159
NH 27, 111A(E); NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A; CT 32; VT 5A; QC 16⒉16⒌263

Flickr

MNHighwayMan

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 4151
  • Blue and gold forever!

  • Age: 27
  • Location: Des Moines
  • Last Login: Today at 07:22:07 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2019, 11:19:14 PM »

I guess the concept of "completely redundant" is kind of difficult for some.
Logged

CNGL-Leudimin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2566
  • When in doubt, US 41

  • Age: 26
  • Location: Across the pond
  • Last Login: Today at 05:03:03 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2019, 04:47:19 AM »

Pre-1964, all of US 70 in California was concurrent with either US 60, US 99, or I-10.ˇ

I kind of said this on the very first reply:
And a couple historical examples:
Either US 60 or US 70 West of Globe AZ

Although I believe US 60 and US 70 went their separate ways West of Beaumont CA, as evidenced by CA 60.
Logged
"Football", a quite ambiguous word for me. I assume "association" football instead of "American" football.

All times Eastern unless DST is in force only in the USA (Central in that case to preserve "6 hours behind my actual time") or otherwise noted

webny99

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3197
  • Roadgeek Forever.

  • Age: 20
  • Location: Rochester, NY
  • Last Login: Today at 05:17:32 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2019, 11:03:11 AM »

Would NY-5's concurrency with US-20 count? They are together for about 70 miles between Avon and Auburn.

In terms of percentage of route length, the multiplex isn't that long.

Also, five-and-twenty has such a nice ring to it - and it's so well known as the Main Street of the Finger Lakes - that I think it would still get called by both numbers even if one was eliminated.
Logged
Left Lane is For Passing, Not Camping!
Threads Started
Counties Clinched

Kulerage

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 121
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Last Login: October 02, 2019, 07:51:28 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2019, 02:19:56 PM »

US 74 in Tennessee is completely overlapped with US 64 and I-75. Tennessee barely even signs it, and it probably only exists to make the highway a multi-state route.
Logged

Occidental Tourist

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 368
  • Last Login: October 29, 2019, 12:22:24 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2019, 02:04:05 AM »

Pre-1964, all of US 70 in California was concurrent with either US 60, US 99, or I-10.ˇ

I kind of said this on the very first reply:
And a couple historical examples:
Either US 60 or US 70 West of Globe AZ

Although I believe US 60 and US 70 went their separate ways West of Beaumont CA, as evidenced by CA 60.
They did.  They merged back together in Pomona just east of the Kellogg Pass.
Logged

sparker

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6098
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:04:50 AM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2019, 03:49:54 AM »

CA 204, aka the northernmost part of Bakersfield's Business Loop (CA) 99.  Seeing as how Bakersfield is defying statewide trends and actually signing the relinquished part of CA 178 across downtown, CA 204 as a connection from the CA 178 freeway to CA 99 is a bit superfluous (and always has been since its 1968 signage).  If D6 intends to keep maintaining the route, fine -- but signing it as CA 204 is superfluous; just let it be silent (like CA 51) and simply sign it as Business 99. 
Logged

TheStranger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3749
  • Last Login: Today at 01:49:14 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2019, 12:37:48 PM »

Pre-1964, all of US 70 in California was concurrent with either US 60, US 99, or I-10.ˇ

I kind of said this on the very first reply:
And a couple historical examples:
Either US 60 or US 70 West of Globe AZ

Although I believe US 60 and US 70 went their separate ways West of Beaumont CA, as evidenced by CA 60.
They did.  They merged back together in Pomona just east of the Kellogg Pass.

Part of what makes the 60/70 thing distinct is that 99 and 60 each had portions east of Los Angeles that were not concurrent with anything else (the aforementioned Pomona-Beaumont segment of 60, and 99 along 86/111), but I don't think 70 at any point ever did.  And even when 60 west of Pomona was being proposed for realignment away from I-10, US 70 was then co-signed with I-10 by itself between US 101 and I-5!

Logged
Chris Sampang

TheOneKEA

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 254
  • Last Login: November 15, 2019, 08:43:40 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2019, 02:01:16 PM »

Maryland doesn’t have very many redundant routes. The ones I can think of that may count are MD 180, MD 832, and MD 144A.
Logged

1

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7325
  • UMass Lowell student

  • Age: 20
  • Location: MA/NH border
  • Last Login: Today at 05:35:57 PM
    • Flickr account
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2019, 02:10:35 PM »

Many of you don't seem to understand the thread.

While I-41 is redundant to US 41, it doesn't count for this thread, as it's an Interstate over a US route, as many Interstates are.

All [route] in [state] examples are not overlapped for their entire length, only some of it. They do not count.
Logged
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US ⒔50
MA ⒐2⒉40.9⒐10⒎10⒐1⒒1⒚14⒈159
NH 27, 111A(E); NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A; CT 32; VT 5A; QC 16⒉16⒌263

Flickr

Kulerage

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 121
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Last Login: October 02, 2019, 07:51:28 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2019, 08:57:04 PM »

All [route] in [state] examples are not overlapped for their entire length, only some of it. They do not count.
I mean, in some contexts highways are considered to be separate things in a different state :bigass:
Logged

thspfc

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 590
  • Age: 2012
  • Location: Madison, WI metro area
  • Last Login: Today at 09:43:33 AM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2019, 09:37:24 PM »

All [route] in [state] examples are not overlapped for their entire length, only some of it. They do not count.
I mean, in some contexts highways are considered to be separate things in a different state :bigass:
In what context? Elaborate.
Logged

texaskdog

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2498
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Austin, TX
  • Last Login: November 12, 2019, 10:36:37 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2019, 09:57:43 PM »

Iowa 27.  US 85 anywhere south of Denver.  US 62 west of Oklahoma.
Logged

thspfc

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 590
  • Age: 2012
  • Location: Madison, WI metro area
  • Last Login: Today at 09:43:33 AM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2019, 10:04:51 PM »

Iowa 27.  US 85 anywhere south of Denver.  US 62 west of Oklahoma.
I think IA-27 was created to keep one number for the Avenue of the Saints corridor (doesn't change the fact that it is redundant).
Logged

roadman65

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9631
  • Location: Orlando, fl
  • Last Login: November 15, 2019, 08:54:17 AM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2019, 10:12:29 PM »

GA 3 and GA 300 in South Georgia.
Logged
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

TheStranger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3749
  • Last Login: Today at 01:49:14 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2019, 11:06:14 PM »

california routes which have ALWAYS been entirely concurrent (with no solo sections) -

Route 204 (all of which has been Business 99) in Bakersfield, as mentioned earlier

Business 80 in Sacramento and for that matter Route 51

former Route 194 which existed only as a paper designation for 1974-1982 I-15E (now I-215, previously I-15 and US 395).   Actually pretty similar to the unsigned Route 51 above.

Unsigned Route 164 along a portion of road that has been signed as part of Route 19 since 1934, from north of Pico Rivera to I-210.  Exists because a parallel freeway corridor to replace that segment of 19 was once proposed, though will never be built.

IIRC, all of what had been Alternate US 66 between Los Angeles and Pasadena along Figueroa and Colorado was concurrent with either Route 11 or Route 134 during its existence. 

Logged
Chris Sampang

formulanone

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 7215
  • Business with pleasure?

  • Age: 45
  • Location: HSV, and then some
  • Last Login: Today at 07:22:57 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2019, 07:19:48 AM »

GA 3 and GA 300 in South Georgia.

There are sections of GA 300 which are not part of US 19; most of the Cordele - Albany route, for example.

MNHighwayMan

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 4151
  • Blue and gold forever!

  • Age: 27
  • Location: Des Moines
  • Last Login: Today at 07:22:07 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2019, 07:44:49 AM »

Iowa 27.  US 85 anywhere south of Denver.  US 62 west of Oklahoma.
I think IA-27 was created to keep one number for the Avenue of the Saints corridor (doesn't change the fact that it is redundant).

Also not completely redundant. The first ~10 miles of IA-27 between the Missouri border and the US-218 interchange are independent.
Logged

jp the roadgeek

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3060
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Outside the I-291 beltway
  • Last Login: Today at 09:13:39 AM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2019, 12:58:42 PM »

CT 15 over US 5 from Meriden north along the Berlin Turnpike and the Charter Oak Bridge.  If it weren't for the small section in East Hartford between Main St and I-84, CT 15 probably would have been truncated to Meriden in 1980 instead of East Hartford when it was removed from the (then) I-86 concurrency.

US 44 west of Arlington, NY.  Here is a rare case of where the state route (NY 55) would be the non-redundant one, since it stretches to the PA border; US 44 ends at US 209. 
Logged
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

roadman65

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9631
  • Location: Orlando, fl
  • Last Login: November 15, 2019, 08:54:17 AM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2019, 11:26:55 PM »

GA 3 and GA 300 in South Georgia.

There are sections of GA 300 which are not part of US 19; most of the Cordele - Albany route, for example.
Which should really truncate that route to Albany or end GA 3 at Albany.  No need to have both go for long way to the FL Border.
Logged
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

ftballfan

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1225
  • Age: 27
  • Location: Ypsilanti, MI
  • Last Login: November 13, 2019, 09:36:02 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2019, 02:05:29 PM »

I don't recall any examples in Michigan. There are concurrencies but not for an entire route at least I don't know of any.

Like I-75 and US-23 run together for 73 miles between Flint and Standish but both highways continue on both ends of the concurrency.



US-223 is concurrent with US-23 into Ohio just to make it go into two states! IMHO, US-23 should be rerouted to follow I-75 and OH 15 from Toledo to Carey with existing US-23 becoming an extended US-223. Also, if this were to happen, OH 15 could easily be truncated to Ottawa.

In Michigan, M-44 used to extend along M-37 to end at M-11 (28th St). M-44 currently ends at I-96, but has extended to M-11 at two separate times (wondering if MDOT ever had plans to reroute M-37 to piggyback on US-131 and M-6 through Grand Rapids instead of piggybacking on I-96)
Logged

Flint1979

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2429
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Michigan
  • Last Login: Today at 06:39:11 AM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2019, 02:43:01 PM »

I don't recall any examples in Michigan. There are concurrencies but not for an entire route at least I don't know of any.

Like I-75 and US-23 run together for 73 miles between Flint and Standish but both highways continue on both ends of the concurrency.



US-223 is concurrent with US-23 into Ohio just to make it go into two states! IMHO, US-23 should be rerouted to follow I-75 and OH 15 from Toledo to Carey with existing US-23 becoming an extended US-223. Also, if this were to happen, OH 15 could easily be truncated to Ottawa.

In Michigan, M-44 used to extend along M-37 to end at M-11 (28th St). M-44 currently ends at I-96, but has extended to M-11 at two separate times (wondering if MDOT ever had plans to reroute M-37 to piggyback on US-131 and M-6 through Grand Rapids instead of piggybacking on I-96)
Yep which is stupid IMO, US-223 should just be a state highway not a US highway I know I've mentioned that before. But the idea you have isn't bad at all. It throws you off to have to go NB on I-75 to stay SB on US-23. Since I-475 is already there US-23 could also break off at US-20 and run concurrent with US-20 and use it's old route (OH-199) instead.

MDOT actually still has M-44 extending all the way to M-11 running concurrent with M-37. It's a rather pointless concurrency since M-44 just ends at M-11 and M-37 doesn't end.
Logged

ftballfan

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1225
  • Age: 27
  • Location: Ypsilanti, MI
  • Last Login: November 13, 2019, 09:36:02 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2019, 02:16:11 PM »

I'm in Winchester, VA for a wedding and I just realized that US-17's northern end is concurrent with US-11, US-50, and US-522. IMHO, it should be either truncated to Paris (where it meets US-50) or extended north to replace the northern stretch of US-522 (with US-522 south of Winchester being downgraded to a state highway).
Logged

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10801
  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: November 15, 2019, 04:55:30 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2019, 01:42:15 PM »

I'm in Winchester, VA for a wedding and I just realized that US-17's northern end is concurrent with US-11, US-50, and US-522. IMHO, it should be either truncated to Paris (where it meets US-50) or extended north to replace the northern stretch of US-522 (with US-522 south of Winchester being downgraded to a state highway).

So . . . it's not completely redundant.
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.

mrsman

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2444
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Silver Spring, MD
  • Last Login: Today at 07:05:05 PM
Re: Completely redundant routes
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2019, 12:46:29 PM »

The OP, for example, cites I-894.  There's not a single mile of I-894 that isn't also I-41.  So why still sign 894?

Because WisDOT wanted to maintain a clear marked bypass for I-94. It’s really not as egregious as the constant complaints here make it.

Another way of handling the problem would simply be by denoting the route as the Milwaukee bypass or Downtown bypass.  The control cities alone should also help direct traffic to Madison and Chicago without having traffic stay on I-94.
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.