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Author Topic: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence  (Read 3596 times)

ozarkman417

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #150 on: September 17, 2019, 12:06:42 PM »

This is from another forum to which I belong. It's in a thread called "Things that are pissing me the fuck off."

Quote from: CapsnNats
Quote from: hockeysc23
Cell phone use at a light. Seems I have to honk at someone not paying attention to a light turning green almost everyday now. You can look at their mirror and see their head down looking at their phone. What’s so damn important you have to check while driving? Why not use Siri to read you a text or respond.
Why use Siri? Just another intrusion into my privacy by corporate America. Besides, I've always got you to let me know the light has changed. Thanks.

 :-D :-D :-D
And then theres android users..

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kphoger

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #151 on: September 17, 2019, 02:05:43 PM »

I don't necessarily brake in advanced, but I will let off the gas until I come near the intersection to the point I need to brake.

Yeah.  1995hoo didn't say anything about these people braking.  All he said is that they were slowing down.

Still, though, there are plenty of times that I choose to brake to slow down a little bit when a light far ahead of me turns red—rather than brake all the way to a near-stop right when it turns green and then have to accelerate all the way back up again.  A little bit of braking is preferable to accelerating from 3 mph back up to cruising speed.  This is especially true on highways or other roads posted for high speeds.




My primary beef with early braking is that drivers generally don't expect it from vehicles that aren't fully-loaded semis.

Not my problem.

Uhh, yes it is. When your early braking creates unnecessary traffic jams. Drive with consideration...that's my mantra.

Or worse.  I've seen multiple rear-end collisions occur because of this crap.  Be considerate of others on the road with you.

Let me get this straight?  A stoplight turned red, a driver braked, someone rear-ended him, and you're claiming it's somehow not the fault of the person who rear-ended him?
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #152 on: September 17, 2019, 02:51:38 PM »

My primary beef with early braking is that drivers generally don't expect it from vehicles that aren't fully-loaded semis.
Not my problem.
Uhh, yes it is. When your early braking creates unnecessary traffic jams. Drive with consideration...that's my mantra.

Of course I'm not advocating for people driving unnecessarily slow. But it is the responsibility of the person behind me to pay attention and keep a safe following distance, regardless of what I'm doing.
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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #153 on: September 17, 2019, 02:56:50 PM »

Pacing was brought up earlier. I notice every time I’m in the right lane approaching a slower vehicle, there’s a car already approaching for an overtake in the left lane moving at a speed fast enough that he should be past me before I have to brake or disengage the cruise. And then for whatever reason he slows down to match my speed when he gets alongside me and I have to reduce speed. Incredibly irritating and happens consistently.

Easily resolved by putting your blinker on. If that doesn't work, very slowly start to move into this person's lane and they'll get the picture.

There is no defensible reason to lurk in somebody's blind spot on a rural freeway and people doing that might be my biggest pet peeve. It's not that hard to bump your cruise up 2 MPH for ten seconds to get around me in a safe and expeditious fashion.

And on a rural freeway with little traffic don't start passing somebody if you can't finish the pass before they catch up to the car in front of them - don't force them to brake because you want to speed but refusr to go another five MPH faster for a few seconds to get around then quickly
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 03:00:11 PM by corco »
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sprjus4

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #154 on: September 17, 2019, 07:16:48 PM »

Let me get this straight?  A stoplight turned red, a driver braked, someone rear-ended him, and you're claiming it's somehow not the fault of the person who rear-ended him?
You're more likely to get into a collision by flying up to the intersection at full speed then braking last minute, as some posters seem to require in their standards, rather than easing your speed down.
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jakeroot

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #155 on: September 17, 2019, 10:13:19 PM »

Let me get this straight?  A stoplight turned red, a driver braked, someone rear-ended him, and you're claiming it's somehow not the fault of the person who rear-ended him?
You're more likely to get into a collision by flying up to the intersection at full speed then braking last minute, as some posters seem to require in their standards, rather than easing your speed down.

You know damn well that's not what we're advocating.

My primary beef with early braking is that drivers generally don't expect it from vehicles that aren't fully-loaded semis.
Not my problem.
Uhh, yes it is. When your early braking creates unnecessary traffic jams. Drive with consideration...that's my mantra.

Of course I'm not advocating for people driving unnecessarily slow. But it is the responsibility of the person behind me to pay attention and keep a safe following distance, regardless of what I'm doing.

Well, yeah. Thank you captain obvious. But if you drive unpredictably, i.e. slowing down way before anyone else reasonably would, it shouldn't be that surprising if someone hits you or beeps at you; you did something they didn't expect.

Or worse.  I've seen multiple rear-end collisions occur because of this crap.  Be considerate of others on the road with you.

Let me get this straight?  A stoplight turned red, a driver braked, someone rear-ended him, and you're claiming it's somehow not the fault of the person who rear-ended him?

See my response to MNHighwayMan; you don't drive in your own little bubble. You have to drive in a predictable manner to avoid being hit. If you get hit because someone didn't expect you to slow down as early as you did, it is both of your faults: his for not paying attention, and yours for doing something most drivers wouldn't reasonably expect in the first place.
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Rothman

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #156 on: September 17, 2019, 10:41:20 PM »

Heh.  That wouldn't stand up in court: "But I didn't expect him to hit his brakes, Your Honor!  So, it's his fault, too!"

"Bailiff, club this man."
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sprjus4

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #157 on: September 17, 2019, 11:20:53 PM »

Quote
See my response to MNHighwayMan; you don't drive in your own little bubble. You have to drive in a predictable manner to avoid being hit. If you get hit because someone didn't expect you to slow down as early as you did, it is both of your faults: his for not paying attention, and yours for doing something most drivers wouldn't reasonably expect in the first place.
The car who hit the other car would be the one at fault, not the person slowing down.

Just because they didn’t slow down according to your standards (which you seem real strict on) doesn’t automatically make you hitting them not responsible.
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jakeroot

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #158 on: September 18, 2019, 03:48:12 AM »

Hey, fellas: I don't care whose fault it was; a crash still occurred, and you now have to deal with the consequences. Car that needs repairing, increased insurance rates, etc.
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webny99

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #159 on: September 18, 2019, 08:36:18 AM »

If you believe you can roll through a green light, instead of having to stop for it, by slowing down early, I have no objections to that. It's more efficient, and I do the same thing at times.

However, applying the brakes is not a necessary an integral part of doing this. If you're looking that far in advance, you can almost always get the same result by simply easing off the gas. Actually using the brakes way, way in advance, is just foolish, unnecessary, and disruptive.
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1995hoo

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #160 on: September 18, 2019, 08:43:57 AM »

I think all these posts have essentially proven my point that braking way in advance for a traffic light, especially when the guy behind you has his blinker on and is trying to reach the turn lane in time for the green arrow, is an annoying behavior that in many cases is not caused by incompetence.
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Beltway

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #161 on: September 18, 2019, 09:47:45 AM »

But if you drive unpredictably, i.e. slowing down way before anyone else reasonably would, it shouldn't be that surprising if someone hits you or beeps at you; you did something they didn't expect.
Depending on the jurisdiction, and the situation, they could receive a summons. 

Some of the articles about "brake checking" say that this is illegal in most places and can be cited for reckless driving or unsafe stop.

This from California --

22109 CVC (Unsafe stop)
No person shall stop or suddenly decrease the speed of a vehicle on a highway without first giving an appropriate signal.

22400 CVC (Impeding or blocking traffic)
No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and
reasonable movement of traffic.  No person shall bring a vehicle to a complete stop upon a highway so as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the stop is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.
. . . . . .

In the case of 22109 CVC, while your brake lights always illuminate when you apply the brakes, the appropriate signal for an unusual or emergency stop would be the 4-way flashers.
 
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 09:52:23 AM by Beltway »
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roadman

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #162 on: September 18, 2019, 10:10:02 AM »

The car who hit the other car would be the one at fault, not the person slowing down.

Actually, in a rear-end collision, the standard in most states is that the person who hits the car in front of them is presumed to be at least fifty percent at fault, not 100 percent.  If the person who was hit did something erratic or unexpected (like suddenly slamming on their brakes), they could be found at least partially culpable for the crash.
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kphoger

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #163 on: September 23, 2019, 01:55:03 PM »

If you believe you can roll through a green light, instead of having to stop for it, by slowing down early, I have no objections to that. It's more efficient, and I do the same thing at times.

However, applying the brakes is not a necessary an integral part of doing this. If you're looking that far in advance, you can almost always get the same result by simply easing off the gas. Actually using the brakes way, way in advance, is just foolish, unnecessary, and disruptive.

Well, that depends entirely on when you expect the light to turn green.  Simply easing off the gas often won't slow you down enough to where you can breeze through the upcoming green light.  Often, that extra -5 or -10 mph that braking affords is what makes the difference.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #164 on: September 23, 2019, 02:27:05 PM »

I like to cross fresh greens on a roll too, but in terms of energy dissipation and the behavioral parameters under which the following driver operates, I tend to find it works better to brake late rather than early.  The energy dissipated through the brakes is less when going from 15 MPH to 10 MPH than it is when going from 35 MPH to 30 MPH--the speed change is the same but kinetic energy is proportional to the square of speed, so the brakes have to dissipate 2.6 times the energy at the higher final speed.  Also, following drivers tend not to expect braking between signals unless a turn is signalled.  Illumination of the brake lamps does give them some warning, but coastdown as opposed to braking gives them more time and space to react.
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kphoger

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #165 on: September 23, 2019, 02:31:42 PM »

I like to cross fresh greens on a roll too, but in terms of energy dissipation and the behavioral parameters under which the following driver operates, I tend to find it works better to brake late rather than early.  The energy dissipated through the brakes is less when going from 15 MPH to 10 MPH than it is when going from 35 MPH to 30 MPH--the speed change is the same but kinetic energy is proportional to the square of speed, so the brakes have to dissipate 2.6 times the energy at the higher final speed.  Also, following drivers tend not to expect braking between signals unless a turn is signalled.  Illumination of the brake lamps does give them some warning, but coastdown as opposed to braking gives them more time and space to react.

But it's not my brakes I'm concerned about when doing this sort of thing.  I'm more interested in the gas mileage difference between having to speed up from 15 mph or less when the light turns green vs having to speed up from the 35 or 40 mph that I slowed down to ahead of time.
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jakeroot

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #166 on: September 23, 2019, 02:42:53 PM »

Am I the only one who isn't keen at rolling right through a light, right as it turns green (as opposed to two or three seconds after it turns green)? Someone could easily be entering the intersection from the other direction "late", and there could be a collision. Hell, even between you and someone who was already in the intersection finishing their turn.
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J N Winkler

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #167 on: September 23, 2019, 02:49:27 PM »

But it's not my brakes I'm concerned about when doing this sort of thing.  I'm more interested in the gas mileage difference between having to speed up from 15 mph or less when the light turns green vs having to speed up from the 35 or 40 mph that I slowed down to ahead of time.

To improve gas mileage, I would be looking to trade off in favor of coastdown time as this extends the time the throttle is almost fully closed, resulting in little air reaching the cylinders and thus less fuel required for a stoichiometric mixture while the engine turns over at essentially the same RPM.  But YMMV (excuse pun!) depending on whether the car is designed to provide engine braking during coastdown at typical city street speeds.  Many smaller cars (e.g., the Saturn and the Honda in the family) are, while others (e.g., the Toyota also in the family) are not.
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kalvado

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #168 on: September 23, 2019, 04:40:26 PM »

I like to cross fresh greens on a roll too, but in terms of energy dissipation and the behavioral parameters under which the following driver operates, I tend to find it works better to brake late rather than early.  The energy dissipated through the brakes is less when going from 15 MPH to 10 MPH than it is when going from 35 MPH to 30 MPH--the speed change is the same but kinetic energy is proportional to the square of speed, so the brakes have to dissipate 2.6 times the energy at the higher final speed.  Also, following drivers tend not to expect braking between signals unless a turn is signalled.  Illumination of the brake lamps does give them some warning, but coastdown as opposed to braking gives them more time and space to react.

But it's not my brakes I'm concerned about when doing this sort of thing.  I'm more interested in the gas mileage difference between having to speed up from 15 mph or less when the light turns green vs having to speed up from the 35 or 40 mph that I slowed down to ahead of time.
Often at a cost of cars behind you missing the light...
I guess I can add another one to annoying habbits list: driving like the only car on the road, regardless of consequences for those around.
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Flint1979

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #169 on: September 23, 2019, 04:49:34 PM »

Am I the only one who isn't keen at rolling right through a light, right as it turns green (as opposed to two or three seconds after it turns green)? Someone could easily be entering the intersection from the other direction "late", and there could be a collision. Hell, even between you and someone who was already in the intersection finishing their turn.
Around here a lot of people run red lights so I always glance both ways before I go through a green light especially if it just turned green.
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jakeroot

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #170 on: September 23, 2019, 04:55:17 PM »

I guess I can add another one to annoying habbits list: driving like the only car on the road, regardless of consequences for those around.

Especially with actuated signals that gap-out. Drivers who leave unnecessary large gaps can be very frustrating. Annoyingly, it may not count as "incompetent" as they're often using the suggested following distance provided by their local government/council.

Am I the only one who isn't keen at rolling right through a light, right as it turns green (as opposed to two or three seconds after it turns green)? Someone could easily be entering the intersection from the other direction "late", and there could be a collision. Hell, even between you and someone who was already in the intersection finishing their turn.
Around here a lot of people run red lights so I always glance both ways before I go through a green light especially if it just turned green.

As do I. I just try not to hit the stop line right as it turns green.
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sprjus4

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #171 on: September 23, 2019, 05:17:52 PM »

Annoyingly, it may not count as "incompetent" as they're often using the suggested following distance provided by their local government/council.
Are you suggesting people should tailgate & ride close just to make a green light?
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kphoger

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #172 on: September 23, 2019, 05:25:09 PM »



I like to cross fresh greens on a roll too, but in terms of energy dissipation and the behavioral parameters under which the following driver operates, I tend to find it works better to brake late rather than early.  The energy dissipated through the brakes is less when going from 15 MPH to 10 MPH than it is when going from 35 MPH to 30 MPH--the speed change is the same but kinetic energy is proportional to the square of speed, so the brakes have to dissipate 2.6 times the energy at the higher final speed.  Also, following drivers tend not to expect braking between signals unless a turn is signalled.  Illumination of the brake lamps does give them some warning, but coastdown as opposed to braking gives them more time and space to react.

But it's not my brakes I'm concerned about when doing this sort of thing.  I'm more interested in the gas mileage difference between having to speed up from 15 mph or less when the light turns green vs having to speed up from the 35 or 40 mph that I slowed down to ahead of time.

Often at a cost of cars behind you missing the light...
I guess I can add another one to annoying habbits list: driving like the only car on the road, regardless of consequences for those around.

Uh, no.  If I'm timing my approach to the intersection to coincide with the light turning green, then chances are awfully slim that doing so would cause someone behind me to get a red.
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kalvado

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #173 on: September 23, 2019, 06:04:51 PM »


Uh, no.  If I'm timing my approach to the intersection to coincide with the light turning green, then chances are awfully slim that doing so would cause someone behind me to get a red.
Not so much aiming at that particular "roll into fresh green" - those lights with sensors over here absolutely require that a car comes to a full stop over the sensing loop. timing your roll so you can go after the last stopped car without coming to a complete stop - and allowing light to start next phase, so those behind you are cut off is another side of a coin
Even that may cause a problem with those behind you trying to get, for example, a  leading protected left turn phase or having to slow down and wait for you to clear slip lane entry.

But my complain is a whole lot broader, though. THose green light games are some of many examples.
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jakeroot

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Re: Annoying driver behavior NOT caused by incompetence
« Reply #174 on: September 23, 2019, 06:53:59 PM »

Annoyingly, it may not count as "incompetent" as they're often using the suggested following distance provided by their local government/council.
Are you suggesting people should tailgate & ride close just to make a green light?

There's a difference between "tailgating" and an increasingly-larger gap. The former is dangerous, and the latter causes traffic platoons to separate and actuated signals to gap-out. The better course of action is to stay reasonably near the car in front. Not so close that you can see if they shaved that morning, but close enough that a signal won't confuse the gap for the end of a line of cars.

Not so much aiming at that particular "roll into fresh green" - those lights with sensors over here absolutely require that a car comes to a full stop over the sensing loop. timing your roll so you can go after the last stopped car without coming to a complete stop - and allowing light to start next phase, so those behind you are cut off is another side of a coin

That's a great point too. Many actuated signals around here don't necessarily jump right back to one direction. A "side" approach may stay green, even without any cars, until another car approaches from the primary road, or until a certain length of time has elapsed. In any case, if you're approaching a red light in this scenario, letting of the gas well before the light may not do you anything, as you may still need to come very close to the stop line to trip the signal.

With this in mind, some of the newer video-detection software seems to look quite far downstream. I've had left turn signals activate having only just nosed into the left turn lane, even without any cars at the front of the line.
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