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Author Topic: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill  (Read 1616 times)

3467

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edwaleni

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2019, 08:59:22 AM »

While we still dont know what is going to be in it after several moths there are hints and here they are
https://www.pjstar.com/news/20190908/fulton-county-leaders-say-route-24-expansion-will-help-community

Route 24 is more attainable than 336
https://www.pontiacdailyleader.com/news/20190905/route-24-one-step-closer-to-four-lane-highway

https://www.sj-r.com/news/20190403/illinois-125-improvements-get-under-way-with-tree-removal
this is ongoing next to a section that is reported to be 4 laned

What of 20?
https://www.journalstandard.com/news/20180203/safety-upgrades-sought-for-us-20-west-of-freeport

The End of Route 30
https://www.saukvalley.com/2017/03/11/u-s-route-30-expansion-plans-near-morrison-halted/a32ll91/

Illinois 29 and US 34?

This is a good summary of the local press related to the new road money.

The story about Morrison and US30 is interesting.

IDOT shows the route traffic declining. Some residents "like" the traffic coming through town because it brings business through. This was an argument in Lebanon as well on the US 50 bypass.

People don't like the reduction in safety that large trucks traversing their downtowns cause, but they don't want to lose the business they bring.

I have been reading some materials about how the decline of the American industrial base is changing highway traffic patterns. That routes considered "long term" post WWII are no longer valid. Even ones thought to be strategic as late as the 1970's before the oil shock threw highway planning to the wind.

Also some states are funding bypasses to shed secondary routes through some towns and turning them over to county highway authorities and get them off their books. Indiana has been "dumping"  several through town highways once their bypasses were done.

That decision to route funding to US-24 southwest of Peoria to Banner is a direct counter to the priorities set to fund IL-336 via Farmington and then south to the west of Canton to meet up with the future Macomb Bypass and US-67. That exit on I-474 was built for that purpose.

But if IDOT turns US-24 into a freeway to Banner, then why build the Farmington route?  I would simply take it the rest of the way to Macomb with a routing south of Canton. IDOT probably can't afford both.

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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2019, 09:30:16 PM »

I have studied the changes in manufacturing too. There is a good discussion of the waves of change in Chicago in the history of the Crosstown. Now there are only 60000 in the city with them percent of more at the Ford plant. In summary that save was from old multi story buildings to the suburbs and sunbelt. Most studies show trade with China was the only time trade did give us a huge hit mostly in clothing and electronics . Two extremes of the tech spectrum. The Midwest hit was less than Texas and CalIfornia. The Economic Policy institute has a good series on US China trade.Also mergers and continuing automation are a big factor.

There have been some articles especially Bloomberg getting at the real issue in the GM strike. With the switch batteries a lot less jobs and a much less complex supply chain.

I think Fulton county made a deal and this should end 336 . Just a guess

There has been a real turn against by passes in small towns. Perhaps the long fight over the Roseville bypass and after it it became clear that the town was wiped out.
If IDOT  was smart it would do what Iowa did on the rest of US 30.
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Joe The Dragon

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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2019, 07:18:00 PM »

There was supposed to financial study ...in 2014. It's inn the website. Sweeny wrote about that too. He was about the only reported who covered it and he died.
I thought about FOIA to see if there is any corridor protection.

Things may slow because of the investigation. WGN radio had a story that they can't find any state senators willing to talk about it.
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Brandon

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 07:47:29 PM »

There was supposed to financial study ...in 2014. It's inn the website. Sweeny wrote about that too. He was about the only reported who covered it and he died.
I thought about FOIA to see if there is any corridor protection.

Things may slow because of the investigation. WGN radio had a story that they can't find any state senators willing to talk about it.

Omerta.  Nobody wants to say nothing to nobody, else they might get put on the federal bus.
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edwaleni

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 09:56:19 PM »

I have studied the changes in manufacturing too. There is a good discussion of the waves of change in Chicago in the history of the Crosstown. Now there are only 60000 in the city with them percent of more at the Ford plant. In summary that save was from old multi story buildings to the suburbs and sunbelt. Most studies show trade with China was the only time trade did give us a huge hit mostly in clothing and electronics . Two extremes of the tech spectrum. The Midwest hit was less than Texas and CalIfornia. The Economic Policy institute has a good series on US China trade.Also mergers and continuing automation are a big factor.

There have been some articles especially Bloomberg getting at the real issue in the GM strike. With the switch batteries a lot less jobs and a much less complex supply chain.

I think Fulton county made a deal and this should end 336 . Just a guess

There has been a real turn against by passes in small towns. Perhaps the long fight over the Roseville bypass and after it it became clear that the town was wiped out.
If IDOT  was smart it would do what Iowa did on the rest of US 30.

The rep for Spoon River Development said they were pushing IDOT for "both" IL-336 and US-24 expansion.

Knowing IDOT, they took the biggest bang for the buck approach.

IL-336 is a full land acquisition, design and build project.

I am surmising that IDOT owns most of the needed ROW along US-24. And if I go by appearances, IL-9 from Banner to Canton is in way better shape than US-24 south of Banner.

While I don't have the AADT for Canton to Kingston Mines, I can guess that a lot of people drive from Canton to work at the Cat plant on 24.

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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 10:25:20 AM »

IDOT  has the land for 24.
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 10:26:58 AM »

She said she wanted both but 24 was more attainable which makes me think some sort of choice was made.?
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edwaleni

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2019, 08:58:22 PM »

She said she wanted both but 24 was more attainable which makes me think some sort of choice was made.?

Attainable because IDOT already has most of the land for 24.

For IL-336, they don't.
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2019, 11:18:00 PM »

They did have corridor protection but there is a drop off off traffic to hear zero after Banner on 24 and 9 and 116. The cost was high on 336. They could add passing lanes on all those routes and benefit a lot more communities than just 336.
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edwaleni

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2019, 08:47:06 PM »

They did have corridor protection but there is a drop off off traffic to hear zero after Banner on 24 and 9 and 116. The cost was high on 336. They could add passing lanes on all those routes and benefit a lot more communities than just 336.

US-24 got all new pavement in the summer of 2018 from IL-9 all the way to IL-78. Not sure which year you are looking at, but it might explain the near zero traffic south of Banner.
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2019, 02:02:06 PM »

I thought I would go over some of the major downstate projects in the plan. I went over the southern Illinois projects in southern Illinois noted in Ohio Valley.
Interesting in what is gone. No 20 freeway and nothing on Illinois 29 and 336.
There is the four lane expansion of 24 between Banner and Kingston Mines.
67 gets a new bridge on a 4 lane ROW but nothing more except a lot of replacing and reconstruction especially in northern Warren county
Warren and Henderson County get more 4 lanes between Biggsville and Kirkwood. It's gets extensive repaving  all the way to the Chicago area where it's expansion is funded.
20 does get 3 lanes from 4 miles West of Stockton .
IL 2 gets reconstruction and passing lanes from Byron to meat the bypass of Rockford.

80 gets a new bridge going into Iowa and 280 gets a new deck. There is extensive repaving and reconstruction. I will look over the Chicago projects later unless someone else beats me.
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2019, 02:12:17 PM »

I talked to someone involved with 24 and I think we can put 336 in fictional
Here are the downstate expansion projects.
Dist. 2 IL 2 is a reconstruction that adds passing lanes 72.5 million for 10.6 miles
US  20 4.07 miles passing lane 22.9 million
D 3 2 sections of IL 47  6.5 m 108.1 million.
Interesting reconstruction on US 34 and IL 23 turn lanes ?
D 4 IDOTese is hard to decipher. New shoulders on 67 expansion Paved ? Who can tell.
US 24 4 lane 8.1 miles 124.9 million. I came up with a lower figure than IDOT by itemizing.
US 34  4.56 miles of 4 lane for 53.3 million.
D 6 The new US 67 bridge 2 lane on 4 lane ROW for 65.5 million 1.41 miles long.Includes approaches.
Finally Illinois 97 4 lane near Springfield though is called a reconstruction.
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2019, 02:20:50 PM »

I put the South of 72 projects in Ohio Valley.
Chicago did not get all the money by any means though the money to fix crumbling 80 is a big big part. But nothing major for Stevenson or IKE and not much for the arterials.
Il 47 gets 6.3 miles in Kane and McHenry
IL 31  6.3 miles
Lake has expansion of 3 m for 60/83 a mile of 120 and 2.5 131.
Dupage gets a couple of miles of 6 lane on 56.

There is a lot of new shoulders reconstruction and intersections statewide. Lots of needed bridge work.

I am going to post the cost per mile of different projects from 4 lane to resurface on the General. I have not seen construction costs in a while.
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2019, 02:33:53 PM »

Finally there is the arterial expansions that are still in featured projects in the webpage but clearly don't.
I mentioned IL 336 which quietly passed in favor of 24 in IDOTs  passive aggressive way.
US 30 officially gone though IDOT  held out passing lanes which would match Iowa but they locals will have to keep on them
IL 29 and US 20 probably are passively aggressively dead. No work so they would need major EIS rework according to Rick Powell.

Any info on these lost souls I mean roads is appreciated.
34 and 67 live on in the above mentioned project

Sorry for different posts but I did each by subject because I know the people here all have different interests

This way you don't have to go though all 990 pages like I just did.
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Crash_It

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2019, 11:02:17 PM »

I put the South of 72 projects in Ohio Valley.
Chicago did not get all the money by any means though the money to fix crumbling 80 is a big big part. But nothing major for Stevenson or IKE and not much for the arterials.
Il 47 gets 6.3 miles in Kane and McHenry
IL 31  6.3 miles
Lake has expansion of 3 m for 60/83 a mile of 120 and 2.5 131.
Dupage gets a couple of miles of 6 lane on 56.

There is a lot of new shoulders reconstruction and intersections statewide. Lots of needed bridge work.

I am going to post the cost per mile of different projects from 4 lane to resurface on the General. I have not seen construction costs in a while.

You missed IL137 being 4 laned from Peterson to IL83 at a redesigned intersection. This would make IL137 at least 4 lanes through its entirety except for a short stretch of two lane in North Chicago.

US41 will get a new bridge over deerpath Rd, a new interchange at IL176 and 6 laned from IL176 to IL137.
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2019, 07:58:27 PM »

Thanks sure I missed something. . I also didn't go through all the local and un numbered
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2019, 08:08:43 PM »

Right now it looks like 20 29 and 336 would have to start their EIS over again. I wonder if we discuss them as upgraded or passing lanes since I DOT is building some on 20 and mentioned them for the officially cancelled 30 Iowa is doing the same on the other side of the river.
It's up to the moderators of course. But it would be nice if I DOT  would say if they are done or if any corridor protection is cancelled like the Prairie Parkway.
I am going to say that 34 and 67 still live because of current construction.
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edwaleni

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2019, 07:40:33 PM »

Right now it looks like 20 29 and 336 would have to start their EIS over again. I wonder if we discuss them as upgraded or passing lanes since I DOT is building some on 20 and mentioned them for the officially cancelled 30 Iowa is doing the same on the other side of the river.
It's up to the moderators of course. But it would be nice if I DOT  would say if they are done or if any corridor protection is cancelled like the Prairie Parkway.
I am going to say that 34 and 67 still live because of current construction.

If they update US-24, then I can't see any dough for IL-336 for at least 5-7 years at best. 20 years, typically.

Honestly I think its odd that US-20 is 4 lane from Middlebury, Indiana to Sioux City, Iowa except 2 spots in Illinois. Freeport to Dubuque, West Elgin to Belvidere.  West Elgin is fine due to the NW Tollway, but the wrecks on the Freeport-Dubuque ROW is inexcusable.

They talk about opening up Galena tourism, but then pour money into an Amtrak subsidy instead.
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3467

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2019, 12:20:26 PM »

My source on this pretty much said 336 is done. The route ended up pleasing no one especially Bushnell which saw it being more like a 4 lane like 67 where it would follow Illinois 9. IDiOT picked magically the old supplementary freeway route which became mind boggling expensive .
As for 20 they started making it 3 lane and stopped. I think when the freeway system ended the plan I know was to 3 lane 67 north of Monmouth and 29 . I suspect that was the plan with 20. It would be great if I DOT would do that.
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I-39

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2019, 07:09:50 AM »

My source on this pretty much said 336 is done. The route ended up pleasing no one especially Bushnell which saw it being more like a 4 lane like 67 where it would follow Illinois 9. IDiOT picked magically the old supplementary freeway route which became mind boggling expensive .
As for 20 they started making it 3 lane and stopped. I think when the freeway system ended the plan I know was to 3 lane 67 north of Monmouth and 29 . I suspect that was the plan with 20. It would be great if I DOT would do that.

Good. None of 336 should have ever been built, the focus should have been entirely on 67.

Also, if anything, 20 should simply be scaled back to a 4 lane expressway utilizing the existing corridor where possible.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2019, 07:57:43 AM »

My source on this pretty much said 336 is done. The route ended up pleasing no one especially Bushnell which saw it being more like a 4 lane like 67 where it would follow Illinois 9. IDiOT picked magically the old supplementary freeway route which became mind boggling expensive .
As for 20 they started making it 3 lane and stopped. I think when the freeway system ended the plan I know was to 3 lane 67 north of Monmouth and 29 . I suspect that was the plan with 20. It would be great if I DOT would do that.

Good. None of 336 should have ever been built, the focus should have been entirely on 67.
336 should be Decommissioned if the Macomb-Peoria segment is never to be constructed
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sandwalk

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Re: Northern Illinois Arterials After the New Capital Bill
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2019, 01:26:58 PM »


Honestly I think its odd that US-20 is 4 lane from Middlebury, Indiana to Sioux City, Iowa except 2 spots in Illinois. Freeport to Dubuque, West Elgin to Belvidere.  West Elgin is fine due to the NW Tollway, but the wrecks on the Freeport-Dubuque ROW is inexcusable.

They talk about opening up Galena tourism, but then pour money into an Amtrak subsidy instead.

I'd really like to know the history on that section of US-20 between Elgin and Belvidere.  It's like the DOT didn't care or know how to properly route a federal highway....it takes so many awkward turns
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