Minor things that bother you

[Roadgeekteen]

Yugoslavia didn't break up because of religion, from doing a search to see what Balkan people think. Yugoslavia was a socialist state and the populous was not exactly devout. Especially the Muslim part- Kosovars/Albanians are very secular Muslims.

Never said it was a jihad. But inform yourself about the mass rape of Bosnian Muslim women. It's also not just state sponsored warfare that is religion-based -- ask the Yazidi, the Rohingya, the Mindanoans, the Sinhalese/Tamils in Sri Lanka, the Copts, the victims of Boko Haram, the Shia in Syria, etc., etc., etc.

You might be right in a lot of these cases, I will admit. I will add that it's often hard to tell whether it's an ethnic dispute or a religious dispute, or all rolled into one. I won't pretend to be an expert on whether religion or ethnicity was the main cause of these events.

[Roadgeekteen]

I'd say that religion definitely played a role, but I actually would say most wars and conflicts stopped being mainly about religion in about the 1600s.

I've never disagreed with a statement more on this site.

Wars are mostly about power. Religion is sometimes part of it, but following the 30 years war most major wars were not really about pure religion devotion, especially post enlightenment in the 1700s. WW1 and WW2 were certainly not religious wars, neither was the 7 years war, neither was the American revolution or the Civil War. Obviously there are some exceptions like the Israel Palestine conflict. That's obviously not to say that religion didn't play a part in many of then.

Not talking shit just to be a jerk. Do you know about the history of India and Pakistan/Bangladesh and how they separated from the British Empire?

Yes, I am very aware that it was split up into a Muslim and Hindu state, so religion played a big role in the conflict. However, Bangledash had their own brutal war of independence from Pakistan, both being Muslim. My point is that major wars for the most part started being less and less about religion during the age of enlightenment, at least in Europe.

How's Yugoslavia doing?

Yugoslavia didn't break up because of religion, from doing a search to see what Balkan people think. Yugoslavia was a socialist state and the populous was not exactly devout. Especially the Muslim part- Kosovars/Albanians are very secular Muslims.

I am tiring of RGT's insistent ignorance.

*checks clock*

That night explain my thinning patience.

And what do you know? Do you just always assume you are right? If you disagree with me, give me sources to back up your claims. I'm very willing to admit I'm wrong about something, but you have to actually give me a reason to believe you.

Pfft.  You haven't provided sources for your blunt, inaccurate conclusions either.

As someone who was alive during the Yugoslavian dissolution and war, needless to say that your summary was patently naive.

As someone who lived in Russia shortly after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, just making broad assumptions like "X country was Socialist so it was secular" is simply evidence of being unwilling to comprehend the more nuanced complexities of such societies.

Again, you tend to arrive at your conclusions far too soon.

Again, I'm not an expert on the Yugoslav wars. I'm slightly confused about Russia though- I know that the Soviets were very secular- Stalin allowed the church to play somewhat of a role in helping fight WW2 but traditionally the church was not emphasised. Post soviet fall the church may have came back- I know it came back with a force in Poland, while in Czechia it almost completely died out. I was under the impression that modern Russia was not a super religious place, but again I might be wrong. Church attendence in Russia is a lot lower than the US.

[JayhawkCO]

Wrt Russia, look basically at Central Asia and how they were treated under the USSR -- mass deportations from Chechnya and Dagestan, so much so that they lost about 60% of their adult, male population by some reports. Ethnic Uzbeks and Tajiks didn't exactly have it rosy under Soviet rule either.

[Roadgeekteen]

Wrt Russia, look basically at Central Asia and how they were treated under the USSR -- mass deportations from Chechnya and Dagestan, so much so that they lost about 60% of their adult, male population by some reports. Ethnic Uzbeks and Tajiks didn't exactly have it rosy under Soviet rule either.

That's completely true. Though I'm not totally sure if it was because of the fact that they were Muslim, given that they also treated Ukrainians poorly at times (Holodomor), which has the same religion. Although the Soviets were atheists, so this would be an atheist vs muslim conflict.

[Max Rockatansky]

I mean, I'm not saying that Canada has no unique identity, it certainly does, especially Quebec, but they consume the same music and TV shows, watch the same sports, having tipping culture and car centric cities.

If it weren't for Québec, Canada would have no culture.

Wow.  Just... wow.

I mean... I got the perfect example in poutine. Poutine was ridiculed in the rest of Canada until they actually tried it, now they claim it's theirs.

Never partook on trips up to Quebec.  Something in gravy has given me an allergic reaction twice and I didn't want to chance it.

[JayhawkCO]

Wrt Russia, look basically at Central Asia and how they were treated under the USSR -- mass deportations from Chechnya and Dagestan, so much so that they lost about 60% of their adult, male population by some reports. Ethnic Uzbeks and Tajiks didn't exactly have it rosy under Soviet rule either.

That's completely true. Though I'm not totally sure if it was because of the fact that they were Muslim, given that they also treated Ukrainians poorly at times (Holodomor), which has the same religion. Although the Soviets were atheists, so this would be an atheist vs muslim conflict.

There are a lot of Orthodox priests that would argue your contention that Soviets were atheistic.

[Roadgeekteen]

Wrt Russia, look basically at Central Asia and how they were treated under the USSR -- mass deportations from Chechnya and Dagestan, so much so that they lost about 60% of their adult, male population by some reports. Ethnic Uzbeks and Tajiks didn't exactly have it rosy under Soviet rule either.

That's completely true. Though I'm not totally sure if it was because of the fact that they were Muslim, given that they also treated Ukrainians poorly at times (Holodomor), which has the same religion. Although the Soviets were atheists, so this would be an atheist vs muslim conflict.

There are a lot of Orthodox priests that would argue your contention that Soviets were atheistic.

There are always collaborators. China is a state atheist state but has official state churches. The number of churches did decline in the Soviet era, but the Soviets alternated between working with the church and repressing the church, depending on how it would benefit the state. But officially, the Soviet Union was a state atheist nation- doesn't mean religion was fully banned.

[Rothman]

I'd say that religion definitely played a role, but I actually would say most wars and conflicts stopped being mainly about religion in about the 1600s.

I've never disagreed with a statement more on this site.

Wars are mostly about power. Religion is sometimes part of it, but following the 30 years war most major wars were not really about pure religion devotion, especially post enlightenment in the 1700s. WW1 and WW2 were certainly not religious wars, neither was the 7 years war, neither was the American revolution or the Civil War. Obviously there are some exceptions like the Israel Palestine conflict. That's obviously not to say that religion didn't play a part in many of then.

Not talking shit just to be a jerk. Do you know about the history of India and Pakistan/Bangladesh and how they separated from the British Empire?

Yes, I am very aware that it was split up into a Muslim and Hindu state, so religion played a big role in the conflict. However, Bangledash had their own brutal war of independence from Pakistan, both being Muslim. My point is that major wars for the most part started being less and less about religion during the age of enlightenment, at least in Europe.

How's Yugoslavia doing?

Yugoslavia didn't break up because of religion, from doing a search to see what Balkan people think. Yugoslavia was a socialist state and the populous was not exactly devout. Especially the Muslim part- Kosovars/Albanians are very secular Muslims.

I am tiring of RGT's insistent ignorance.

*checks clock*

That night explain my thinning patience.

And what do you know? Do you just always assume you are right? If you disagree with me, give me sources to back up your claims. I'm very willing to admit I'm wrong about something, but you have to actually give me a reason to believe you.

Pfft.  You haven't provided sources for your blunt, inaccurate conclusions either.

As someone who was alive during the Yugoslavian dissolution and war, needless to say that your summary was patently naive.

As someone who lived in Russia shortly after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, just making broad assumptions like "X country was Socialist so it was secular" is simply evidence of being unwilling to comprehend the more nuanced complexities of such societies.

Again, you tend to arrive at your conclusions far too soon.

Again, I'm not an expert on the Yugoslav wars. I'm slightly confused about Russia though- I know that the Soviets were very secular- Stalin allowed the church to play somewhat of a role in helping fight WW2 but traditionally the church was not emphasised. Post soviet fall the church may have came back- I know it came back with a force in Poland, while in Czechia it almost completely died out. I was under the impression that modern Russia was not a super religious place, but again I might be wrong. Church attendence in Russia is a lot lower than the US.

I'm not sure if you even know what your point is in this conversation any longer.

Suffice it to say that having had many religious discussions while in Moscow, Volgograd and Rostov-na-Donu with hundreds of Russians, the vast majority of people I met had a religious affiliation and the majority claimed to be Orthodox.  Easter was a huge, fun holiday, with "Christ is risen" being accepted as how to greet someone on that day.  Christmas, a bit less of an affair...communities didn't open up as much.

Anyway, churches and religious identity don't just pop up or disappear instantaneously.  Religion tends to be pretty hardy in the face of government policy/intervention (shoot, look at the Martyrdom of Christ itself in that regard).  Again, nuance and complexity...

Short of it is that you're just not going to learn everything about a country by reading a few paragraphs on the Internet.

[Roadgeekteen]

I'm not sure if you even know what your point is in this conversation any longer.

Suffice it to say that having had many religious discussions while in Moscow, Volgograd and Rostov-na-Donu with hundreds of Russians, the vast majority of people I met had a religious affiliation and the majority claimed to be Orthodox.  Easter was a huge, fun holiday, with "Christ is risen" being accepted as how to greet someone on that day.  Christmas, a bit less of an affair...communities didn't open up as much.

Anyway, churches and religious identity don't just pop up or disappear instantaneously.  Religion tends to be pretty hardy in the face of government policy/intervention (shoot, look at the Martyrdom of Christ itself in that regard).  Again, nuance and complexity...

Short of it is that you're just not going to learn everything about a country by reading a few paragraphs on the Internet.

Needless to say this conversation has lost any source of on topicness to the actual point of this thread and should probably be wrapped up soon. I will say that the majority of Russians certainly do identify as Christian; all surveys show that. The only question is how devout they are, like do they go to church, pray regularly, and follow biblical rules- which is obviously up to debate lol, but probably not something that we can figure out on this forum.

[Rothman]

I'm not sure if you even know what your point is in this conversation any longer.

Suffice it to say that having had many religious discussions while in Moscow, Volgograd and Rostov-na-Donu with hundreds of Russians, the vast majority of people I met had a religious affiliation and the majority claimed to be Orthodox.  Easter was a huge, fun holiday, with "Christ is risen" being accepted as how to greet someone on that day.  Christmas, a bit less of an affair...communities didn't open up as much.

Anyway, churches and religious identity don't just pop up or disappear instantaneously.  Religion tends to be pretty hardy in the face of government policy/intervention (shoot, look at the Martyrdom of Christ itself in that regard).  Again, nuance and complexity...

Short of it is that you're just not going to learn everything about a country by reading a few paragraphs on the Internet.

Needless to say this conversation has lost any source of on topicness to the actual point of this thread and should probably be wrapped up soon. I will say that the majority of Russians certainly do identify as Christian; all surveys show that. The only question is how devout they are, like do they go to church, pray regularly, and follow biblical rules- which is obviously up to debate lol, but probably not something that we can figure out on this forum.

It's like you're snagging little tidbits from wherever, but can't synthesize a cohesive line from them.  It's like AI-adjacent vibes somehow.

This all goes back to talking about your assumptions about Yugoslavia, though.  You seem to be taking a deeper look into Russia with each post, so perhaps you can connect the dots from here.

[Roadgeekteen]

I'm not sure if you even know what your point is in this conversation any longer.

Suffice it to say that having had many religious discussions while in Moscow, Volgograd and Rostov-na-Donu with hundreds of Russians, the vast majority of people I met had a religious affiliation and the majority claimed to be Orthodox.  Easter was a huge, fun holiday, with "Christ is risen" being accepted as how to greet someone on that day.  Christmas, a bit less of an affair...communities didn't open up as much.

Anyway, churches and religious identity don't just pop up or disappear instantaneously.  Religion tends to be pretty hardy in the face of government policy/intervention (shoot, look at the Martyrdom of Christ itself in that regard).  Again, nuance and complexity...

Short of it is that you're just not going to learn everything about a country by reading a few paragraphs on the Internet.

Needless to say this conversation has lost any source of on topicness to the actual point of this thread and should probably be wrapped up soon. I will say that the majority of Russians certainly do identify as Christian; all surveys show that. The only question is how devout they are, like do they go to church, pray regularly, and follow biblical rules- which is obviously up to debate lol, but probably not something that we can figure out on this forum.

It's like you're snagging little tidbits from wherever, but can't synthesize a cohesive line from them.  It's like AI-adjacent vibes somehow.

This all goes back to talking about your assumptions about Yugoslavia, though.  You seem to be taking a deeper look into Russia with each post, so perhaps you can connect the dots from here.

I am certainly not the strongest writer; I never was that good in English class.

[Molandfreak]

I mean, I'm not saying that Canada has no unique identity, it certainly does, especially Quebec, but they consume the same music and TV shows, watch the same sports, having tipping culture and car centric cities.

If it weren't for Québec, Canada would have no culture.

Wow.  Just... wow.

I mean... I got the perfect example in poutine. Poutine was ridiculed in the rest of Canada until they actually tried it, now they claim it's theirs.

Never partook on trips up to Quebec.  Something in gravy has given me an allergic reaction twice and I didn't want to chance it.

New York Fries has vegan gravy that could be ok for you

[Roadgeekteen]

I mean, I'm not saying that Canada has no unique identity, it certainly does, especially Quebec, but they consume the same music and TV shows, watch the same sports, having tipping culture and car centric cities.

If it weren't for Québec, Canada would have no culture.

Wow.  Just... wow.

I mean... I got the perfect example in poutine. Poutine was ridiculed in the rest of Canada until they actually tried it, now they claim it's theirs.

Never partook on trips up to Quebec.  Something in gravy has given me an allergic reaction twice and I didn't want to chance it.

New York Fries has vegan gravy that could be ok for you

Gravy is just meat and vegetable stock without any of the most common allergens so I'm not sure what his allergy could be from it.

[Max Rockatansky]

I mean, I'm not saying that Canada has no unique identity, it certainly does, especially Quebec, but they consume the same music and TV shows, watch the same sports, having tipping culture and car centric cities.

If it weren't for Québec, Canada would have no culture.

Wow.  Just... wow.

I mean... I got the perfect example in poutine. Poutine was ridiculed in the rest of Canada until they actually tried it, now they claim it's theirs.

Never partook on trips up to Quebec.  Something in gravy has given me an allergic reaction twice and I didn't want to chance it.

New York Fries has vegan gravy that could be ok for you

Gravy is just meat and vegetable stock without any of the most common allergens so I'm not sure what his allergy could be from it.

Got me but anaphylaxis not the slightest hit enjoyable.  For me the typical reaction is my throat closing to the point where it feels like I'm choking on food.  That is usually accompanied by violent vomiting.  After vomiting things usually clear up within minutes (aside from adrenaline).

[Roadgeekteen]

I mean, I'm not saying that Canada has no unique identity, it certainly does, especially Quebec, but they consume the same music and TV shows, watch the same sports, having tipping culture and car centric cities.

If it weren't for Québec, Canada would have no culture.

Wow.  Just... wow.

I mean... I got the perfect example in poutine. Poutine was ridiculed in the rest of Canada until they actually tried it, now they claim it's theirs.

Never partook on trips up to Quebec.  Something in gravy has given me an allergic reaction twice and I didn't want to chance it.

New York Fries has vegan gravy that could be ok for you

Gravy is just meat and vegetable stock without any of the most common allergens so I'm not sure what his allergy could be from it.

Got me but anaphylaxis not the slightest hit enjoyable.  For me the typical reaction is my throat closing to the point where it feels like I'm choking on food.  That is usually accompanied by violent vomiting.  After vomiting things usually clear up within minutes (aside from adrenaline).

Oh obviously if it gives you a reaction, definitely don't eat it. I'm just confused at what you can especially if you eat other meat.

[Max Rockatansky]

Shellfish, tree nuts and for some reason banana all cause it.  I didn't used to be allergic to shellfish until I suddenly was one day.

[Scott5114]

Spoiler alert, there are other countries!

Yeah, like Alanland.

British colonial history

Which is basically the key difference between the two—the US rebelled against the crown and Canada didn't, and the reason is because Americans are more individualist-minded and Canadians are more society-minded. Every other cultural difference between the two countries can be traced back to that.

There is nowhere on earth with no culture.

Antarctica.