Minor things that bother you

[Max Rockatansky]

I think we're missing the real point of that comment.

I'm more confused how we got there from a conversation about modifications to what counts on TM.

[kphoger]

And, even in states with bathroom gender laws, are there any states in which the ban applies to private property rather than just government-owned facilities?

Kansas does; warning for first offense, $1000 fine on second, misdemeanor on the third.  Idaho as well; misdemeanor on first offense, felony (!) on second.

What bills are you looking at, that include private property?

Kansas SB 244:  "Public building means a building owned or leased by a governmental entity."

Idaho HB 264:  "Covered entity means a correctional facility, domestic violence shelter, juvenile correctional center, or state educational institution."

[kphoger]

I think we're missing the real point of that comment.

Plot twist!  |LilianaUwU| is actually worried about getting shot in the head, being under the mistaken belief that the USA is chock-full of gun-wielding psychos who go around shooting anyone they don't like at the drop of a hat—when, in reality, it's just Florida.

[Max Rockatansky]

I think we're missing the real point of that comment.

Plot twist!  |LilianaUwU| is actually worried about getting shot in the head, being under the mistaken belief that the USA is chock-full of gun-wielding psychos who go around shooting anyone they don't like at the drop of a hat—when, in reality, it's just Florida.

Even in Florida it isn't as though every last person is a card carrying MAGA member.  Key West and much of Monroe County swung the other way politically. 

[LilianaUwU]

I think we're missing the real point of that comment.

Plot twist!  |LilianaUwU| is actually worried about getting shot in the head, being under the mistaken belief that the USA is chock-full of gun-wielding psychos who go around shooting anyone they don't like at the drop of a hat—when, in reality, it's just Florida.

I wouldn't go to Florida even if the US were the most pro-trans nation in existence. I have standards, y'know.

[kphoger]

I wouldn't go to Florida even if the US were the most pro-trans nation in existence. I have standards, y'know.

Fortunately for you, it is possible to clinch Ontario's international bridges without ever setting foot in Florida.

[kphoger]

FWIW...  If I were transgender and even remotely passed as female, I wouldn't think twice of using the ladies' room at a rest area, even in a state with such a bathroom ban.  The general culture in public bathrooms is to pretend nobody else in there even exists, let alone examining somebody closely enough for it to matter, and I've now gone 4½ decades without ever having seen an ID check at a rest area bathroom door.

[Max Rockatansky]

FWIW...  If I were transgender and even remotely passed as female, I wouldn't think twice of using the ladies' room at a rest area, even in a state with such a bathroom ban.  The general culture in public bathrooms is to pretend nobody else in there even exists, let alone examining somebody closely enough for it to matter, and I've now gone 4½ decades without ever having seen an ID check at a rest area bathroom door.

Back in 2005 I was working Loss Prevention for Dillard's at their big flagship store in downtown Scottsdale, Arizona.  One of the female employees came to my office to complain about a cross dresser in the women's restroom.  I asked the employee if said person was bothering anyone and the answer was "no." 

I briefly reviewed video to see what the employee was talking about.  The cross dresser she was referring to was clearly biologically male (bald and about 6'5) but had been legitimately shopping in the store.  The customer came out of the restroom after about three minutes and resumed shopping.  I just went back to what I was doing and caught an unrelated shoplifter about a half hour later.

[kphoger]

The cross dresser she was referring to was clearly biologically male (bald and about 6'5)

I should hope so.  Otherwise, we'd be left wondering how she knew.

—  There's a person in the ladies' room who looks like a woman but is really a man.
—  If the person looks like a woman, then how do you know he's a man?
—  I double-checked by looking at his...  well, actually, you know what, never mind.
—  Sounds good.

[Max Rockatansky]

The cross dresser she was referring to was clearly biologically male (bald and about 6'5)

I should hope so.  Otherwise, we'd be left wondering how she knew.

—  There's a person in the ladies' room who looks like a woman but is really a man.
—  If the person looks like a woman, then how do you know he's a man?
—  I double-checked by looking at his...  well, actually, you know what, never mind.
—  Sounds good.

FWIW, Arizona was a much red state back in 2005 and Dillard's was probably the most country fried retailer out there.  Back then it probably would have been socially acceptable call the police and request a trespass.  I saw no reason to hassle a paying customer who wasn't causing an actual disturbance.  I had shoplifters to catch and being the restroom police wasn't a priority.

[1995hoo]

The cross dresser she was referring to was clearly biologically male (bald and about 6'5)

I should hope so.  Otherwise, we'd be left wondering how she knew.

—  There's a person in the ladies' room who looks like a woman but is really a man.
—  If the person looks like a woman, then how do you know he's a man?
—  I double-checked by looking at his...  well, actually, you know what, never mind.
—  Sounds good.

There's one quite simple giveaway that wouldn't be too odd: "His feet were facing towards the toilet and the sound coming from in there made it clear that he was standing while he did his business." That is, think of the scene when the kids catch Mrs. Doubtfire standing while using the toilet.

[Max Rockatansky]

The cross dresser she was referring to was clearly biologically male (bald and about 6'5)

I should hope so.  Otherwise, we'd be left wondering how she knew.

—  There's a person in the ladies' room who looks like a woman but is really a man.
—  If the person looks like a woman, then how do you know he's a man?
—  I double-checked by looking at his...  well, actually, you know what, never mind.
—  Sounds good.

There's one quite simple giveaway that wouldn't be too odd: "His feet were facing towards the toilet and the sound coming from in there made it clear that he was standing while he did his business." That is, think of the scene when the kids catch Mrs. Doubtfire standing while using the toilet.

My understanding is that said customer was sitting on the toilet.  They were wearing a mini skirt which I don't think would have been conducive to standing.

[kphoger]

There's one quite simple giveaway that wouldn't be too odd: "His feet were facing towards the toilet and the sound coming from in there made it clear that he was standing while he did his business."

Country girls can do the same...

They were wearing a mini skirt which I don't think would have been conducive to standing.

Sounds more conducive to standing!

[hbelkins]

And I've never heard anybody refer to North and South America combined as "America". It's a bunch of stubborn contrarians trying to be cooler than you.

I've heard both continents referred to in the singular as "the Americas."

The fact that TM is starting to scope creep its way into making clinching not a worthwhile activity to do.  What is the point of trying to clinch an entire region or fill in the map, make it look good with no blips of clinched stuff at the borders or where a roadmeet tour connected via local roads, if the goalposts are going to constantly move?  Nothing can be relied on anymore, whether something is in or not, clinching trips cannot be planned based on the data because they might randomly add something in a few months/years, and with the addition of interstate bridges, there's no way to reasonably clinch some regions without introducing problems in adjacent regions (for example, I've now lost my 100% of NY probably permanently because of a random bridge over the Delaware River that's a long drive to get to with nothing new worth seeing on the way there/back, and even if I did fix it, I'd have a bunch of random clinches to nowhere protruding into PA!).

This is really starting to turn me off from the concept of clinching, to be honest.  I can't see myself ever veering away from interstates and mainline US routes, but everything else is starting to look pointless except for some routes that I have a specific interest in.

Who says you have to use TM to make clinching a worthwhile activity?

I don't use TM, and won't until they develop a clickable interface instead of typing a list of roads you've been on (which means I'll never use the site), yet I still clinch. It's not a competition, and I don't need to have a site to compare what I've clinched to what others have clinched. I do it for my own enjoyment, not to keep score against opponents.

[kphoger]

If you ask any person anywhere in the world what America is, they're likely going to say "The US". And I've never heard anybody refer to North and South America combined as "America".

Then you must not have talked to all the people in Latin America who were taught in school that "América" is the name of a huge continent that stretches from Canada to Argentina.

In my time in Mexico, I've observed that the people there refer to this country as "Estados Unidos" (United States), but that they refer to the people here as either "gringos" or "americanos"—not "estadounidense" as is more technically correct.  My view might be slanted based on the specific people I typically interact with down there, but my general sense is that people south of the border do indeed think of themselves as living in "America" even while not thinking of themselves as "Americans".

[formulanone]

not "estadounidense"

This word twist works for me.

Regarding TM "scope creep"; relax, 100% is not an permanently attainable goal for most of life's worthwhile activities. It's always a castle made of sand.

[Max Rockatansky]

There's one quite simple giveaway that wouldn't be too odd: "His feet were facing towards the toilet and the sound coming from in there made it clear that he was standing while he did his business."

Country girls can do the same...

They were wearing a mini skirt which I don't think would have been conducive to standing.

Sounds more conducive to standing!

Your comment reminded me of the restroom scene in Step Brothers.  That involved a mini skirt and a urinal.

[wxfree]

If you ask any person anywhere in the world what America is, they're likely going to say "The US". And I've never heard anybody refer to North and South America combined as "America".

Then you must not have talked to all the people in Latin America who were taught in school that "América" is the name of a huge continent that stretches from Canada to Argentina.

In my time in Mexico, I've observed that the people there refer to this country as "Estados Unidos" (United States), but that they refer to the people here as either "gringos" or "americanos"—not "estadounidense" as is more technically correct.  My view might be slanted based on the specific people I typically interact with down there, but my general sense is that people south of the border do indeed think of themselves as living in "America" even while not thinking of themselves as "Americans".

Separation of the Americas, to me, is unwarranted, like the separation of Europe and Asia, which I assume are separated only to reduce the immensity, or the separation of Eurasia and Africa, which, for all intensive purposes, is a single continent.  A narrow patch of land connecting two larger areas is not the same thing as a 10,000 foot deep ocean that makes the land masses truly disconnected.  To me, the largest, non-political, definition of "America" is Canada to Argentina.

Regarding what Mexicans call this country, isn't Mexico also "Estados Unidos?"  I would never think of Mexico as the United States, but they are just as much as we are.  If they use that term for us, that suggests they don't think of themselves that way, either.

Also regarding what Mexicans call this country, what's at the end?  Is it Estados Unidos Americanos?  I don't remember from my semester of Spanish three decades ago.  If it is, then it's consistent that Mexicans are from the United Mexican States and Americans are from the United American States.

[kphoger]

for all intensive purposes

Man, those purposes sure are intense!
[/sarc]

Regarding what Mexicans call this country, isn't Mexico also "Estados Unidos?"  I would never think of Mexico as the United States, but they are just as much as we are.

Officially, the country's name is Estados Unidos Mexicanos.  But that's not really a thing that I've ever seen or heard down there.  Kind of like how I doubt anyone goes around Brazil referring to their own country as the República Federativa do Brasil, nobody goes around Mexico referring to their own country by its full official name either.

If they use that term for us, that suggests they don't think of themselves that way, either.

They just think of themselves as "México".

Also regarding what Mexicans call this country, what's at the end?  Is it Estados Unidos Americanos?  I don't remember from my semester of Spanish three decades ago.

Long form, it would be Estados Unidos de América.  But, again, I've never seen or heard that in its entirety down there.

If it is, then it's consistent that Mexicans are from the United Mexican States and Americans are from the United American States.

Nope, not consistent.  The translations would be United Mexican States and United States of America.

[kphoger]

Public Service Announcement:

If your car is so precious that you have to use two or more parking spaces in order to prevent any peons from accidentally touching it, then you had better have the decency to park way back in the corner of parking lot farthest away from the store entrance.

[Scott5114]

FWIW...  If I were transgender and even remotely passed as female, I wouldn't think twice of using the ladies' room at a rest area, even in a state with such a bathroom ban.  The general culture in public bathrooms is to pretend nobody else in there even exists, let alone examining somebody closely enough for it to matter, and I've now gone 4½ decades without ever having seen an ID check at a rest area bathroom door.

Unfortunately, as Max's anecdote illustrates, there are actually do-gooders who freak out when they see someone they think isn't female in the women's room, and will try to detain them and/or get some kind of authority involved. This is something that has been a problem even for cisgender women who just don't look particularly feminine. It shouldn't be too hard to pull up examples of reporting of such.

"Everyone's there to do their business and get out" is more of a men's room culture thing, apparently.

[kphoger]

Unfortunately, as Max's anecdote illustrates, there are actually do-gooders who freak out when they see someone they think isn't female in the women's room, and will try to detain them and/or get some kind of authority involved. This is something that has been a problem even for cisgender women who just don't look particularly feminine. It shouldn't be too hard to pull up examples of reporting of such.

"Everyone's there to do their business and get out" is more of a men's room culture thing, apparently.

Which, on the one hand, is kind of understandable.  But, on the other, it's also kind of ridiculous.  Who in their right mind, if they actually stop to think about it, imagines that there predators out there whose m.o. is to dress up like women and hang out in the Dillard's restroom?

[Max Rockatansky]

Unfortunately, as Max's anecdote illustrates, there are actually do-gooders who freak out when they see someone they think isn't female in the women's room, and will try to detain them and/or get some kind of authority involved. This is something that has been a problem even for cisgender women who just don't look particularly feminine. It shouldn't be too hard to pull up examples of reporting of such.

"Everyone's there to do their business and get out" is more of a men's room culture thing, apparently.

Which, on the one hand, is kind of understandable.  But, on the other, it's also kind of ridiculous.  Who in their right mind, if they actually stop to think about it, imagines that there predators out there whose m.o. is to dress up like women and hang out in the Dillard's restroom?

Logic amongst employees is something I've found to be lacking in all the years I have worked in retail Loss Prevention. 

[bugo]

there made it clear that he was standing while he did his

The best scene in Step Brothers is when John C. Reilly rips a 12 second rodeo bunk at a job interview.

[Scott5114]

Who in their right mind, if they actually stop to think about it, imagines that there predators out there whose m.o. is to dress up like women and hang out in the Dillard's restroom?

The transgender community has been asking this question for the past decade or two and has never gotten a satisfactory answer. (Because what predator would be perfectly okay with committing crimes against random women, but consider violating the bathroom dress code to be beyond the pale?)