Coronavirus pandemic

[kphoger]

Not necessarily. They could do a live sermon through Zoom or a similar platform.

Oh yeah, I suppose that's true.  In fact, I now remember watching a comedy sketch on YouTube recently about Zoom-platform church.

[oscar]

Not all churches are set up for online anything.  In order to make sermons available for watching at home, a congregation has to have...

Not necessarily. They could do a live sermon through Zoom or a similar platform.

Not low-tech enough for all congregations. In my age group, I know people who don't have Internet access, or smartphones.

For some, the "similar platform" is a low-power FM transmitter broadcasting to drive-in congregants. That requires an FM transmitter; any license required (don't know if there is any); parking lot with room for congregants to park within range of the transmitter; and some other arrangement for congregants who don't have their own cars.

And none of this might work for congregations in densely-populated cities. For example, parking for Sunday services has been a huge issue in the District of Columbia, with persistent problems with suburbanites parking illegally near the church they still attend even after moving out of the city (though perhaps lessened by the suburbanites who can use streaming, etc. to participate in services without leaving home).

Don't assume that there are easy or good solutions to reconciling the right to worship with public health needs.

[kphoger]

For some, the "similar platform" is a low-power FM transmitter broadcasting to drive-in congregants. That requires an FM transmitter; any license required (don't know if there is any); parking lot with room for congregants to park within range of the transmitter; and some other arrangement for congregants who don't have their own cars.

And none of this might work for congregations in densely-populated cities.

Or in Greenville (MS), where the mayor banned drive-in church services and eight police officers issued $500 tickets to people who refused to leave one last month.

[ftballfan]

Our neighborhood just sent around an e-mail saying the pools will not open this year, based on advice from counsel and the liability insurance carrier. While I think ultimately that's the right decision under the circumstances, I'm mildly surprised they reached the decision this soon. The previous announcement had said the pools' opening (which would normally have been this past Saturday, weather permitting) was delayed until at least June 10. I figured they'd delay it again until the end of June and then re-assess.

Gonna be some very disappointed kids in our neighborhood when their parents tell them the news!

It might be partially a budget cut (as in the people in charge of maintenance may have been furloughed)

[kphoger]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

I know Estes Park (CO) did at the beginning of the month for the downtown district, set to expire June 10.

Section 2: Face Coverings Required.

All persons shall wear face coverings at all times when:

b.  outdoors within the boundaries of the Commercial Downtown zoning district, as delineated in the Town of Estes Park Development Code and Official Zoning Map.

[oscar]

For some, the "similar platform" is a low-power FM transmitter broadcasting to drive-in congregants. That requires an FM transmitter; any license required (don't know if there is any); parking lot with room for congregants to park within range of the transmitter; and some other arrangement for congregants who don't have their own cars.

And none of this might work for congregations in densely-populated cities.

Or in Greenville (MS), where the mayor banned drive-in church services and eight police officers issued $500 tickets to people who refused to leave one last month.

Is Greenville, or any other jurisdiction, still doing that? They seem to have given up on that nonsense, after intervention by the Justice Department and/or the courts.

But that issue is shooting-fish-in-a-barrel easy. In-person worship issues, not so much.

[jemacedo9]

Our neighborhood just sent around an e-mail saying the pools will not open this year, based on advice from counsel and the liability insurance carrier. While I think ultimately that's the right decision under the circumstances, I'm mildly surprised they reached the decision this soon. The previous announcement had said the pools' opening (which would normally have been this past Saturday, weather permitting) was delayed until at least June 10. I figured they'd delay it again until the end of June and then re-assess.

Gonna be some very disappointed kids in our neighborhood when their parents tell them the news!

And here it comes, right on time...liability.  And counsel. 

[Max Rockatansky]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

I know Estes Park (CO) did at the beginning of the month for the downtown district, set to expire June 10.

Section 2: Face Coverings Required.

All persons shall wear face coverings at all times when:

b.  outdoors within the boundaries of the Commercial Downtown zoning district, as delineated in the Town of Estes Park Development Code and Official Zoning Map.

Fresno had one but it expired with the City's emergency order on the 26th. 

[bandit957]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

I know Estes Park (CO) did at the beginning of the month for the downtown district, set to expire June 10.

Section 2: Face Coverings Required.

All persons shall wear face coverings at all times when:

b.  outdoors within the boundaries of the Commercial Downtown zoning district, as delineated in the Town of Estes Park Development Code and Official Zoning Map.

Fresno had one but it expired with the City's emergency order on the 26th.

There's no way this was enforceable outdoors.

[gonealookin]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

San Francisco is joining this list.  https://sf.gov/information/masks-and-face-coverings-coronavirus-outbreak

In general, you are required to wear something to cover your face when you leave your home.
...
You must wear a face covering when you are:
...
-- Walking outside and you see someone within 30 feet (about the length of a MUNI bus)

[Max Rockatansky]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

I know Estes Park (CO) did at the beginning of the month for the downtown district, set to expire June 10.

Section 2: Face Coverings Required.

All persons shall wear face coverings at all times when:

b.  outdoors within the boundaries of the Commercial Downtown zoning district, as delineated in the Town of Estes Park Development Code and Official Zoning Map.

Fresno had one but it expired with the City's emergency order on the 26th.

There's no way this was enforceable outdoors.

Interestingly the mayor admitted that here in Fresno when the mask order was instituted.  During the press conference the mayor went onto say that the police weren't looking for people not wearing masks outside, despite it being mandatory in all public places.   That's kind of how Fresno rolled with their emergency order, they often put enforceable provisions in only to say they "wouldn't really"  even try to.  That probably didn't do the City government many favors since it probably encourages numerous public protests. 

To that end, the only places in the City I've seen instituting mask rules are major retails like Vons or Costco.  Every gas station I've been in since the 26th has taken their mask signage down and my car wash/detailer was just enforcing mask adherence with their own staff.  Meanwhile up in places like Prather and Auberry it's rare to even see anyone even wearing a mask at all.  Fresno County briefly made mask mandatory but changed the language in the first couple days to "recommended."  

[Max Rockatansky]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

San Francisco is joining this list.  https://sf.gov/information/masks-and-face-coverings-coronavirus-outbreak

In general, you are required to wear something to cover your face when you leave your home.
...
You must wear a face covering when you are:
...
-- Walking outside and you see someone within 30 feet (about the length of a MUNI bus)

Is that a new order?  I thought SF was already requiring masks...then again I don't follow what they do all that much anymore.  Interesting to see the exercise provision accounted for, that didn't happen here. 

[gonealookin]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

San Francisco is joining this list.  https://sf.gov/information/masks-and-face-coverings-coronavirus-outbreak

In general, you are required to wear something to cover your face when you leave your home.
...
You must wear a face covering when you are:
...
-- Walking outside and you see someone within 30 feet (about the length of a MUNI bus)

Is that a new order?  I thought SF was already requiring masks...then again I don't follow what they do all that much anymore.  Interesting to see the exercise provision accounted for, that didn't happen here. 

According to SFGate it's new (like you I don't pay attention to that city's politics, just happened to be looking at the web site).  (Edit:  Here's the order from the Department of Public Health.)

LATEST May 28, 3:05 p.m. The City of San Francisco is now requiring that individuals wear masks whenever they leave their homes and interact with people outside their households.

The city previously only required masks in mostly indoor situations, but it now mandates that individuals wear masks when exercising less than 30 feet from others or when passing people on the sidewalk.

[bandit957]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

San Francisco is joining this list.  https://sf.gov/information/masks-and-face-coverings-coronavirus-outbreak

In general, you are required to wear something to cover your face when you leave your home.
...
You must wear a face covering when you are:
...
-- Walking outside and you see someone within 30 feet (about the length of a MUNI bus)

Is that a new order?  I thought SF was already requiring masks...then again I don't follow what they do all that much anymore.  Interesting to see the exercise provision accounted for, that didn't happen here. 

According to SFGate it's new (like you I don't pay attention to that city's politics, just happened to be looking at the web site).  (Edit:  Here's the order from the Department of Public Health.)

LATEST May 28, 3:05 p.m. The City of San Francisco is now requiring that individuals wear masks whenever they leave their homes and interact with people outside their households.

The city previously only required masks in mostly indoor situations, but it now mandates that individuals wear masks when exercising less than 30 feet from others or when passing people on the sidewalk.

Other cities have this, but nobody follows it.

[Max Rockatansky]

What cities have issued orders requiring people to wear masks while outdoors?

San Francisco is joining this list.  https://sf.gov/information/masks-and-face-coverings-coronavirus-outbreak

In general, you are required to wear something to cover your face when you leave your home.
...
You must wear a face covering when you are:
...
-- Walking outside and you see someone within 30 feet (about the length of a MUNI bus)

Is that a new order?  I thought SF was already requiring masks...then again I don't follow what they do all that much anymore.  Interesting to see the exercise provision accounted for, that didn't happen here. 

According to SFGate it's new (like you I don't pay attention to that city's politics, just happened to be looking at the web site).  (Edit:  Here's the order from the Department of Public Health.)

LATEST May 28, 3:05 p.m. The City of San Francisco is now requiring that individuals wear masks whenever they leave their homes and interact with people outside their households.

The city previously only required masks in mostly indoor situations, but it now mandates that individuals wear masks when exercising less than 30 feet from others or when passing people on the sidewalk.

Other cities have this, but nobody follows it.

There is probably a more pretty good chance that there is heavy public support in SF.  The city and really the whole Bay Area tends to best to their own drum on things like this. 

[bandit957]

Since there's been so much bad news about this pandemic, maybe it's time to focus on some good news...

* Today, the rate of positive tests in the U.S. is among the lowest it's been since early March.

* The 7-day rolling average of new cases multiplied by the positive rate appears to be the lowest since March 24.

* More states and cities are reopening. I think even hard-hit District of Columbia is reopening.

* More people are out and about - and maskless.

* More beaches are opening.

* Medical breakthroughs are coming as we learn more and more about this virus.

* The IHME model says that by August 1, the prevalence of this virus in the U.S. will be only 1/34th of what it is now.

So many websites try to profit from gloom and scam their supporters. But the next couple months will see more reopenings and a continued steep decline in cases.

[webny99]

Not all churches are set up for online anything.  In order to make sermons available for watching at home, a congregation has to have...

Not necessarily. They could do a live sermon through Zoom or a similar platform.

Not low-tech enough for all congregations. In my age group, I know people who don't have Internet access, or smartphones.

That's true, although kids and grandkids can often help the older folks with technology. Not having any internet access in this day and age is problematic for many other reasons, not being able to join a zoom meeting being fairly low on the list. I get that it's a reality for some people, and maybe that's potentially something their church should be helping/supporting them with, both practically and financially.

Don't assume that there are easy or good solutions to reconciling the right to worship with public health needs.

One thing this pandemic has proven, though, is that there are solutions if you're committed to finding them and prepared to think outside the box. Not necessarily easy or good or conventional solutions, but there are ways to make things work.

[Eth]

Bars and nightclubs have been cleared to reopen in Georgia beginning Monday. As I understand it, they'll have to follow a certain set of safety regulations much like those restaurants that have reopened their dining rooms.

I hope it works out, but I'm still skeptical. While the situation here doesn't seem to be obviously getting any worse at the moment, it does appear to no longer be getting any better either. Progress has pretty much stalled.

[Roadgeekteen]

Bars and nightclubs have been cleared to reopen in Georgia beginning Monday. As I understand it, they'll have to follow a certain set of safety regulations much like those restaurants that have reopened their dining rooms.

I hope it works out, but I'm still skeptical. While the situation here doesn't seem to be obviously getting any worse at the moment, it does appear to no longer be getting any better either. Progress has pretty much stalled.

Nightclubs aren't even opening in Massachusetts until like phase 4.

[ftballfan]

I think it won't be long before Brazil will be worse off than the US (as in a higher number of cases per capita).

Fun with data: Qatar has nearly 51,000 confirmed cases, but only 33 deaths for a CFR of 0.065%. The actual CFR likely isn't that low, but is likely under 1%. If one were to use Qatar's CFR (or the CFR of the UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, or Saudi Arabia, each of which is under 1%) to estimate the total # of cases in each country based on death data, parts of Europe and the US might be flirting with herd immunity.

[tradephoric]

^Brazil is already reporting more daily cases than the USA even though Brazil has 120 million fewer people.  On Thursday Brazil reported a record 26,417 new coronavirus cases while America reported 22,658.   

[wanderer2575]

Our neighborhood just sent around an e-mail saying the pools will not open this year, based on advice from counsel and the liability insurance carrier. While I think ultimately that's the right decision under the circumstances, I'm mildly surprised they reached the decision this soon. The previous announcement had said the pools' opening (which would normally have been this past Saturday, weather permitting) was delayed until at least June 10. I figured they'd delay it again until the end of June and then re-assess.

Gonna be some very disappointed kids in our neighborhood when their parents tell them the news!

And here it comes, right on time...liability.  And counsel.

Nah, that doesn't count until the RESIDENTS start with lawsuits claiming theft (of their HOA dues), fraud, and of course that the pools not reopening is inflicting emotional distress.

[Max Rockatansky]

I struck out for the Courtright and Wishon Reservoirs yesterday out in Sierra National Forest.  It seems as though most National Forest campgrounds are closed and there is presently no garbage collection going on.  All the developed toilet facilities were locked up and there wasn't a single trace of anyone from the Forest Service.  The picnics and OHV trails were listed as closed on the NF Interactive Map but didn't have any actual obstruction in field.  Some campers set up their own camp sites along some of the roads and appeared to be fairly entrenched.  PG&E did have their RV and Campground open in Wishon Village.  The impression I got was that the crowds were heavy Memorial Day weekend and the Forest Service essentially shuttered their work force. 

[citrus]

There is probably a more pretty good chance that there is heavy public support in SF.  The city and really the whole Bay Area tends to best to their own drum on things like this. 

You are right, of course. Pretty much everyone's wearing masks out and about in SF. The update to the public health order about masks made things more restrictive; previously, masks were only required indoors, and waiting in line to go indoors. Most people had 'em outside anyways.

The city also released its reopening plan: https://sf.gov/information/reopening-san-francisco.

[kphoger]

One thing this pandemic has proven, though, is that there are solutions if you're committed to finding them and prepared to think outside the box. Not necessarily easy or good or conventional solutions, but there are ways to make things work.

Overall, I've been very impressed by how well many entities have adapted to the business-from-home model, and also how quickly they were able to implement new practices and tools.  However, I've noticed quite a disparity between some institutions and other comparable ones–most notably a disparity between school districts.

As it relates to the ability of religious groups to continue offering services to their members:  the notion of finding solutions and committing to make them work still assumes there are knowledgeable people within the group who are able and willing to make it happen.  For a lot of congregations, that group of people doesn't include the paid staff, so it means finding members who are able and willing to donate their time–which could range from easy to impossible, depending on the congregation.

In my age group, I know people who don't have Internet access, or smartphones.

That's true, although kids and grandkids can often help the older folks with technology. Not having any internet access in this day and age is problematic for many other reasons, not being able to join a zoom meeting being fairly low on the list. I get that it's a reality for some people, and maybe that's potentially something their church should be helping/supporting them with, both practically and financially.

It sounds like you're suggesting that religious groups cover the cost of computers and internet subscriptions for members who apparently don't even want them, then commit to training them to use it.  In my frank opinion, even if that were reasonable, those members still wouldn't use it.  You've grown up in a culture in which the internet has been ubiquitous, and so the filter through which you view life is colored by that.  For people who've lived 80% of their life in a culture in which the internet either didn't exist or else wasn't the primary tool of communication, it would require a radical shift in outlook for them to suddenly value the internet enough to actually incorporate it into their daily life.