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Author Topic: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)  (Read 146363 times)

froggie

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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2012, 11:00:57 AM »

Quote
Seeing that the western section most likely won't be built anytime soon, I'd be for an I-22 extension to I-20/I-59, which would provide not only a smooth transition to another Interstate route, but also, a more complete northern bypass of downtown.

Something that, IMO, should be built anyway.  Would provide a little bit of redundancy for Malfunction Junction too.
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Tourian

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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2012, 11:02:08 AM »

I don't see how extending I-22 would make a decent bypass or that it should be considered as an alternative. I think they should extend I-22 through the city so that it takes some load off of 280 and then run it on down to Columbus, GA and then eventually ending in Jacksonville, Fl. Then build the Northern belt too.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 11:04:16 AM by Tourian »
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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2012, 11:11:53 AM »

This refers to a long-standing proposal to extend I-22 to I-20/59 near the airport (likely just east of the AL 79 interchange).  It would do a lot more than you think...it'd be much more cost-effective than building the Northern Beltline and extending it south to I-20.  It would also take some traffic off of Malfunction Junction.  Your proposal would actually increase traffic at Malfunction Junction, nevermind that A) 280 is too far gone for a realistic solution, thanks to Alabama's lack-of-ability to do access control/access management on arterials; and B) traffic thins out and the existing US 280 is fine once you get past Chelsea.  At most, you'd only need to run a freeway to Harpersville.
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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2012, 01:00:57 PM »

I agree with the general concept of extending I-22 to 20/59 somewhere in the eastern part of the city, but IMO the best way they could build that would be to directly connect it at the 20/59 split.  In theory, you keep the northbound truck traffic away from the middle of the city by forcing them onto I-22, and help Malfunction Junction as well.

However, that means it would likely go right through not only the airport, but a large cemetery as well.  I don't know if it's feasible to go under the airport, either building-wise, or if the government would allow such a thing for security reasons.  The alternative is to go around the southern end of the airport and build parallel to 20/59 until the split, then curve it over.

The 20/59 split is already tough to negotiate with the tough curves, but I presume it would be rebuilt anew as part of the construction.  There's also the issue of the I-20 portion being only 4 lanes there with the long elevated section, and the intersection with US11 almost right on top of the interchange.

Beyond the airport though, it's a mainly industrial/railroad/open area so the "western" part of that connection should be easy to complete through Fultondale/North Birmingham, other than the topography of it.

You could also connect I-22 to 20/59 a little farther west around the Tallapoosa St. exit, but traffic backs up there as it is, so I can't imagine taking I-22 almost all the way through downtown just to avoid a 4 mile stretch to Malfunction Junction.  Either way, IMO by building a connection that close to downtown, you're adding more traffic to the area immediately east of Malfunction Junction, which is the whole reason for the bypass.  That little 3 mile area between Tallapoosa and the Split would make for all the difference in the world. 
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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2012, 11:56:02 AM »

I agree with the general concept of extending I-22 to 20/59 somewhere in the eastern part of the city, but IMO the best way they could build that would be to directly connect it at the 20/59 split.  In theory, you keep the northbound truck traffic away from the middle of the city by forcing them onto I-22, and help Malfunction Junction as well.

However, that means it would likely go right through not only the airport, but a large cemetery as well.  I don't know if it's feasible to go under the airport, either building-wise, or if the government would allow such a thing for security reasons.  The alternative is to go around the southern end of the airport and build parallel to 20/59 until the split, then curve it over.

The 20/59 split is already tough to negotiate with the tough curves, but I presume it would be rebuilt anew as part of the construction.  There's also the issue of the I-20 portion being only 4 lanes there with the long elevated section, and the intersection with US11 almost right on top of the interchange.

Beyond the airport though, it's a mainly industrial/railroad/open area so the "western" part of that connection should be easy to complete through Fultondale/North Birmingham, other than the topography of it.

You could also connect I-22 to 20/59 a little farther west around the Tallapoosa St. exit, but traffic backs up there as it is, so I can't imagine taking I-22 almost all the way through downtown just to avoid a 4 mile stretch to Malfunction Junction.  Either way, IMO by building a connection that close to downtown, you're adding more traffic to the area immediately east of Malfunction Junction, which is the whole reason for the bypass.  That little 3 mile area between Tallapoosa and the Split would make for all the difference in the world. 

That's another good way to go.
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Tourian

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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2012, 06:42:06 PM »

Well, while I'm dreaming up this Northern Beltline that probably will never happen, or if it does I'll be dead or to old to drive on it, might as well move the airport too. If they ever want the air traffic Delta and Southwest would like to see to give Atlanta a break, they should taken LaLa's deal to line his and his friends pockets to move the airport out east near the dog track.

Quote
This refers to a long-standing proposal to extend I-22 to I-20/59 near the airport (likely just east of the AL 79 interchange).  It would do a lot more than you think...it'd be much more cost-effective than building the Northern Beltline and extending it south to I-20.  It would also take some traffic off of Malfunction Junction.  Your proposal would actually increase traffic at Malfunction Junction, nevermind that...

Well I was saying that 22 should still run through Tarrant and in to 20/59 at Tallapoosa/79 - along WITH a NB. I think the plan holding things up is because the area around there is so dense and it is right there close to the airport.
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Grzrd

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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2012, 09:14:35 PM »

Quote
Seeing that the western section most likely won't be built anytime soon, I'd be for an I-22 extension to I-20/I-59, which would provide not only a smooth transition to another Interstate route, but also, a more complete northern bypass of downtown.
Something that, IMO, should be built anyway.  Would provide a little bit of redundancy for Malfunction Junction too.
This refers to a long-standing proposal to extend I-22 to I-20/59 near the airport (likely just east of the AL 79 interchange).  It would do a lot more than you think...it'd be much more cost-effective than building the Northern Beltline and extending it south to I-20.  It would also take some traffic off of Malfunction Junction.

This article indicates that ALDOT has not pursued the I-22 extension to I-20/59 near the airport because of concerns over the high cost of the environmental cleanup of contaminated materials that are in the path of the extension:

Quote
So if I-22 continued past I-65 and tied into I-20/59 near the airport, traffic traveling either direction between Atlanta and Memphis could bypass the downtown junction. Additionally, traffic coming south on I-65 and heading east toward Atlanta could take the spur, as could I-20/59 traffic heading north from Birmingham.
Depending on the alignment, that connector would be in the neighborhood of two or three miles long.
The problem is what you encounter in those two or three miles.
"We looked at that years ago," said Don Vaughn, ALDOT's chief engineer. "But you get into a heavy industrial area with contaminated materials and we could not get through there. If we stir it up, we clean it up, and there is too much through there."
Current plans call for ending I-22 at U.S. 31, just beyond its intersection with I-65. If it were to continue in a straight shot, it would soon run into a sprawling industrial complex owned by Walter Energy, which includes a plant that cooks coal into coke, an ingredient in the steel-making process.
Beyond that, the road would have to cut across at least a portion of either the Collegeville or Harriman Park neighborhoods. Both neighborhoods have long suffered the brunt of pollution from surrounding industry. And though such a route possibly could be engineered to provide those communities with a long-sought, quick and easy connection to the rest of the city, it also would bring an increased load of air pollution from automobile traffic.
There might be ways to twist the route through vacated industrial sites, but contamination might be present.

However, I believe the I-22 extension, even factoring in the cost of an environmental cleanup, would be much more cost-effective than the Northern Beltline.

Two other "intown bypass" options that the article discusses are (1) turning US 31 into a northern extension of the Elton B. Stephens Expressway, and (2) extending Finley Boulevard to connect with AL 79 near the airport:

Quote
Another seemingly direct line on the map would be to turn the existing U.S. 31 into a northern extension of the Elton B. Stephens Expressway, which would provide many of the same transit benefits as the I-22 extension. However, that project would face an impossibly tight squeeze between the former Carraway Hospital property and beyond that the North Birmingham business district, and it would require taking numerous homes and businesses.
A third option would be to create a downtown bypass by extending Finley Boulevard.
City planners have long considered the possibility of a secondary route that could take truck traffic from Finley's beginning near I-20/59 at Arkadelphia Road and connect it over to Alabama 79 near the airport.
The extension of Finley into Collegeville and beyond is being actively pursued, though the planned project would have a much smaller footprint than would be required for a true highway. The route also would cut across homes and potentially contaminated industrial sites.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 09:39:11 AM by Grzrd »
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I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #82 on: May 08, 2012, 12:31:16 PM »

Alabama is asking the AASHTO SCOH Committee on US Route Numbering (USRN) to approve both I-222 and I-422 designation proposals at their spring meeting next week. The proposals are outlined in a summary of the USRN agenda posted at http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/Agenda%20USRN%20SM2012%20May%2018.pdf and listed on page 11. Unfortunately, the links to the specific proposals are not working, perhaps by the meeting.

Being a follower of I-73, I'm sort of new to I-22, but it looks like I-222 is proposed to run 2.3 miles from I-422 near Brookside, AL back to I-422 north of Birmingham.
I-422 will run west and south 51 miles from I-59 northeast of Trussville to the I-20/59/I-459 interchange near Bessemer. Do you think SCOH might question an why an I-x59 may make more sense given the end points?

codyg1985

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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #83 on: May 08, 2012, 12:55:19 PM »

Alabama is asking the AASHTO SCOH Committee on US Route Numbering (USRN) to approve both I-222 and I-422 designation proposals at their spring meeting next week. The proposals are outlined in a summary of the USRN agenda posted at http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/Agenda%20USRN%20SM2012%20May%2018.pdf and listed on page 11. Unfortunately, the links to the specific proposals are not working, perhaps by the meeting.

Being a follower of I-73, I'm sort of new to I-22, but it looks like I-222 is proposed to run 2.3 miles from I-422 near Brookside, AL back to I-422 north of Birmingham.
I-422 will run west and south 51 miles from I-59 northeast of Trussville to the I-20/59/I-459 interchange near Bessemer. Do you think SCOH might question an why an I-x59 may make more sense given the end points?



The I-222 road is a connector that will connect I-22 to I-422 (confused yet)? At first I-422 (also known as the Birmingham Northern Beltline or BNB) would have a conventional interchange with I-22, but to cut costs it was decided that instead of an interchange there would be a connector freeway to connect I-422 to I-22. I-422/BNB will cross I-22 with no interchange.

I also question the use of an I-x22 here too; I don't know why it couldn't be I-659 or, if the eastern extension to I-20 would be built, I-220 or I-420.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 12:58:48 PM by codyg1985 »
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Cody Goodman
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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #84 on: May 08, 2012, 01:06:37 PM »

It has now been moved into this thread that ALDOT is submitting a request to the AASHTO SCOH Committee to designate the northern beltline as I-422. The connector freeway that will connect I-22 with I-422 in lieu of a direct interchange would be called I-222. I-422 and I-222 are separate requests.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 07:58:17 PM by Steve »
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Cody Goodman
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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #85 on: May 08, 2012, 01:20:52 PM »

Alabama is asking the AASHTO SCOH Committee on US Route Numbering (USRN) to approve both I-222 and I-422 designation proposals at their spring meeting next week. The proposals are outlined in a summary of the USRN agenda posted at http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/Agenda%20USRN%20SM2012%20May%2018.pdf and listed on page 11. Unfortunately, the links to the specific proposals are not working, perhaps by the meeting.

I fucking hate links in PDFs. Here are the correct URLs:
http://ballot.transportation.org/FileDownload.aspx?attachmentType=Item&ID=654 (I-222)
http://ballot.transportation.org/FileDownload.aspx?attachmentType=Item&ID=655 (I-422)
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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #86 on: May 08, 2012, 04:31:59 PM »

Are there any signs up on Interstate 22 stating Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham?
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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #87 on: May 08, 2012, 04:58:27 PM »

Are there any signs up on Interstate 22 stating Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=interstate+22+sign
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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #88 on: May 08, 2012, 05:01:53 PM »

Are there any signs up on Interstate 22 stating Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=interstate+22+sign

I wholeheartedly endorse this lmgtfication.
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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #89 on: May 08, 2012, 05:25:32 PM »

Are there any signs up on Interstate 22 stating Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham?

Like this?
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sr641

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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #90 on: May 08, 2012, 05:29:07 PM »

Are there any signs up on Interstate 22 stating Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham?

Like this?


So its not officially 22 yet; it's still a corridor. On google maps it says its an interstate now.
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Isaac

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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #91 on: May 08, 2012, 05:30:48 PM »

Are there any signs up on Interstate 22 stating Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham?

Like this?


So its not officially 22 yet; it's still a corridor. On google maps it says its an interstate now.

I meant like an Interstate 22 sign not a Future Interstate 22 sign but thanks for the great picture.
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Isaac

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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2012, 05:37:42 PM »

Are there any signs up on Interstate 22 stating Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham?

Like this?


So its not officially 22 yet; it's still a corridor. On google maps it says its an interstate now.

It also shows I-269 as active around Memphis, but it isn't. Google maps is not necessarily a reliable source of info.
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sr641

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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2012, 05:40:14 PM »

Are there any signs up on Interstate 22 stating Interstate 22 between Memphis and Birmingham?

Like this?


So its not officially 22 yet; it's still a corridor. On google maps it says its an interstate now.

It also shows I-269 as active around Memphis, but it isn't. Google maps is not necessarily a reliable source of info.

Thanks I'll have to remember that. Which map company do you think produces the most accurate maps? I thought Rand Mcnally and Google did for a while.
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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #94 on: May 08, 2012, 06:25:58 PM »

Which map company do you think produces the most accurate maps? I thought Rand Mcnally and Google did for a while.

Based on the new 2013 Rand McNally Atlas, I wouln't depend on much of anything they show.

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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #95 on: May 08, 2012, 07:17:06 PM »

http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/Agenda%20USRN%20SM2012%20May%2018.pdf

Alabama: Future I-222 (Establish) USRN Application Future 222 9-27-2011.pdf
Alabama: Future I-422 (Establish) USRN Application Future I - 422 9-27-11.pdf


So much for any thought of completing I-459 as a loop, but why does I-422 go from 59 to 59? If it must have a different number, 259 would be most appropriate. I'm also not sure whether I-222 should really be I-122 - probably could go either way.

EDIT: Now that I saw this in the other thread, I acknowledge that Bob said it first.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 07:53:42 PM by Steve »
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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #96 on: May 08, 2012, 07:30:31 PM »

I still see no connection to I-20 from I-59 at the east terminus of I-422.  As an Atlanta based driver, I don't see how useful I-422 would be to me without that connection.  If I want to drive to Memphis, I will still have to take I-20 to I-65 and then north to I-22, if I want an all-interstate route.

BTW, is I-422 scheduled to be constructed in our lifetime, or is this just a paper exercise anyway?
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Re: I-222 / I-422 (Birmingham)
« Reply #97 on: May 08, 2012, 07:50:58 PM »

I still see no connection to I-20 from I-59 at the east terminus of I-422.  As an Atlanta based driver, I don't see how useful I-422 would be to me without that connection.  If I want to drive to Memphis, I will still have to take I-20 to I-65 and then north to I-22, if I want an all-interstate route.

BTW, is I-422 scheduled to be constructed in our lifetime, or is this just a paper exercise anyway?
100% agreed with your first point. It would seem that Alabama is serious about I-422, so I would expect to see work on it start in the next NN years, where N is somewhere under 3.

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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)
« Reply #98 on: May 08, 2012, 08:20:03 PM »

So I-422 could start somewhere under 33 years?  I may live that long, hahaha, so it might be built in my lifetime after all.
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Re: Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-222)
« Reply #99 on: May 08, 2012, 08:48:23 PM »

So I-422 could start somewhere under 33 years?  I may live that long, hahaha, so it might be built in my lifetime after all.

As of September 2011, the Summary of Preliminary Analysis Conducted for the Reevaluation of Project HPP-1602(530)(529)(502)(531)(532) Birmingham Northern Beltline set forth the ROW acquisition and construction schedule as follows (page 3/98 of pdf):

Quote
1.2.2 Status of ROW Acquisition and Construction Schedules
The only section of the project that has advanced to ROW acquisition is the SR 79 to SR 75 project. All ROW for this 3.4 mile section has been acquired. The schedules for ROW acquisition and construction are detailed in Table 1. The western sections of the project are in the long range plan and are not scheduled for ROW acquisition or construction in the next five years. The SR 79 to SR 75 section of the project would be the first to advance to construction with a date of 2012.
Table 1. ROW Acquisition and Construction Schedules
Project (Section)                                                             ROW Start       CST Start
I-459/59/20 to CR 46                                                      2031                2032
CR 46 to US 78                                                               2031                2032
US 78 to CR 77/Mt. Olive Road                                         2024                2026
CR 77/Mt. Olive Road to I-65                                           2019/ 2021       2021/ 2022
I-65 to US 31                                                                 2013                 2014
US 31 to SR 79                                                               2013                 2014/ 2015
SR 79 to SR 75                                                               2007                 2012
SR 75 to I-59                                                                 2025                 Not Programmed

A map of the proposed I-222 in its entirety (it is called "I-22 Connector" on the map) is on page 16/98 of the pdf.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 11:16:43 PM by Grzrd »
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